"bulletproofs" hilux specs and Videos

[vvega]

Its Birthday time for the hilux.

Decided to fit a new ARB locker to the rear diff.

Been gathering the needed parts .New Carrier , Bearings Etc.

What I did learn today is that some carrier pinion bearings are heaps bigger than others. I picked up one that the 100 series cruiser uses.

Here is the difference .Hilux on the left and the 100 series on the right.



Cheers Richard

from my playing with lux diffs ive found 3 very different variants so far .. most likey to be 4 ....

[rokhound]

3 is common.
Factory 2 pinions, LSD's and 4 pinions all have different sized carrier bearings

[Bulletproof]

Here is another photo showing size difference.

The spacer is about 15mm shorter so has to take a lot of movement out of the pinion.



Cheers Richard

[hosehustler]

A trip 5 years ago across the "Cloudy Range" to the Clarence. Tim (hosehustler) will remember this trip.




Cheers Richard

Remember it well

There good bog holes Richard, and a good track to drive on as well. Tim did a vid up from our trip down there last year. It should be floating around this site somewhere "Haast Queens Birthday 08".
Al

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/node/867

[Bulletproof]

Went down to Kevin Pages today and looked at his toyota parts list to identify the rear diff carrier that takes the same bearings as the 100 series cruiser.

For anyone interested it is a 1996-2001 KZN LN185 surf housing. And doing extra research even the latest 4000cc surf runs the same one


Cheers Richard

[rokhound]

Isn't that just a standard 8" 4 pinion housing?
Those housings are also the same as the ones used in 90 series Prado's, one of which I blew to bits at xmas time. But to be fair, it was the crownwheel and pinion I rooted, not the bearings.
As another aside, it is not often you will blow bearings in an 8" diff that has not had water in it. I have had close on 200hp running through my lux diffs, and the only time they let go was due to broken C & P, or water damage.

[Bulletproof]

Isn't that just a standard 8" 4 pinion housing?
Those housings are also the same as the ones used in 90 series Prado's, one of which I blew to bits at xmas time. But to be fair, it was the crownwheel and pinion I rooted, not the bearings.
As another aside, it is not often you will blow bearings in an 8" diff that has not had water in it. I have had close on 200hp running through my lux diffs, and the only time they let go was due to broken C & P, or water damage.

Yes the 90 prado series run the same bearings.

What were you doing to break it ? And what diff ratio were you running ?

Yes the bearings in a std lux won't fail but they allow flex of the pinion .

Fingers crossed I have never blown a diff, but then again I'm a careful driver. Old lady stuff.

Cheers Richard

[rokhound]

The Prado was a 4.1 (also took out the ctr diff ). I think there may have been some underlying damage as it was not being loaded up (to my mind anyway ) hugely at the time.
Lux went through a couple of std 5.29's (no surprises there ) and a Yukon C & P set (due to pinion coming loose, my fault). When I changed to the 304, I put 4.56, 4 pinions in, and have had no issues (but it hasn't done a lot on those either).
I am pretty sure that my diff's would get loaded up a huge amount more than yours Richard (at close on 100-1 in low low), and that seems to be where they let go. Of course the lower the ratio, the worse it gets. If you are driving club truck styles (or adventure), there is usually a high degree of slip in the surfaces you drive on, therefore the constant loadings are less (shock loading is another story though ).

[Bulletproof]

Has anyone fitted a 4.56 crown and pinion into one of the heavy housings.

As a starting point to save me time and money what size shim did you use between the pinion and the main bearing to give me a rough quide.

There are 22 shims from 1.7mm-2.33mm going up in 0.03mm and they cost $13 each. I am trying to establish a starting point.

Today I have ordered a 2.33mm thinking I can have it surface ground to get the right markings.

Cheers Richard

[Moriarty]

Has anyone fitted a 4.56 crown and pinion into one of the heavy housings.

As a starting point to save me time and money what size shim did you use between the pinion and the main bearing to give me a rough quide.

There are 22 shims from 1.7mm-2.33mm going up in 0.03mm and they cost $13 each. I am trying to establish a starting point.

Today I have ordered a 2.33mm thinking I can have it surface ground to get the right markings.

Cheers Richard

Are you SURE????

0.03mm is 0.001 181 102 362 2 inch about 1 1/6th thou.
seems like bloody thin shims dont they?

Must be a range of sizes, and if there are a lot of shims the same thickness, I forsee lots of difficulty.
Only diff I had setup had maybe 6 shims and no two were the same thickness. Mind you, moving the pinion in and out also made a dif to the diff. Onec the blueing showed the two gears to be in the correct relations sip for mesh, it was an easy job to use the jacking threads on the ends of the carrier to make the final adjustment.

Do not Toyoda have that jacking facility?

B

[Bulletproof]

Has anyone fitted a 4.56 crown and pinion into one of the heavy housings.

As a starting point to save me time and money what size shim did you use between the pinion and the main bearing to give me a rough quide.

There are 22 shims from 1.7mm-2.33mm going up in 0.03mm and they cost $13 each. I am trying to establish a starting point.

Today I have ordered a 2.33mm thinking I can have it surface ground to get the right markings.

Cheers Richard

Are you SURE????

0.03mm is 0.001 181 102 362 2 inch about 1 1/6th thou.
seems like bloody thin shims dont they?

Must be a range of sizes, and if there are a lot of shims the same thickness, I forsee lots of difficulty.
Only diff I had setup had maybe 6 shims and no two were the same thickness. Mind you, moving the pinion in and out also made a dif to the diff. Onec the blueing showed the two gears to be in the correct relations sip for mesh, it was an easy job to use the jacking threads on the ends of the carrier to make the final adjustment.

Do not Toyoda have that jacking facility?

B

Yes Im sure Here are the part Nos and sizes

41201D WASHER, PLATE (FOR REAR DIFFERENTIAL DRIVE PINION)
90201-35497 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.70
90201-35498 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.73
90201-35499 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.76
90201-35500 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.79
90201-35501 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.82
90201-35502 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.85
90201-35503 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.88
90201-35504 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.91
90201-35505 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.94
90201-35506 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=1.97
90201-35507 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.00
90201-35508 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.03
90201-35509 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.06
90201-35510 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.09
90201-35511 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.12
90201-35512 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.15
90201-35513 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.18
90201-35514 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.21
90201-35515 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.24, MARK 01
90201-35516 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.27, MARK 02
90201-35517 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.30, MARK 03
90201-35518 KDN185, KZN185, RZN18*, VZN18*; T=2.33, MARK 04


Cheers Richard

[Moriarty]

Yeah, ok, you are sure, are you POSITIVE you are sure?

about the jacking screws. toyodas dont have em, obviously, else you wouldna be wanting shims. now wouldja?

[Jafa]

Has anyone fitted a 4.56 crown and pinion into one of the heavy housings.

As a starting point to save me time and money what size shim did you use between the pinion and the main bearing to give me a rough quide.

There are 22 shims from 1.7mm-2.33mm going up in 0.03mm and they cost $13 each. I am trying to establish a starting point.

Today I have ordered a 2.33mm thinking I can have it surface ground to get the right markings.

Cheers Richard

Are you SURE????



0.03mm is 0.001 181 102 362 2 inch about 1 1/6th thou.
seems like bloody thin shims dont they?

Must be a range of sizes, and if there are a lot of shims the same thickness, I forsee lots of difficulty.
Only diff I had setup had maybe 6 shims and no two were the same thickness. Mind you, moving the pinion in and out also made a dif to the diff. Onec the blueing showed the two gears to be in the correct relations sip for mesh, it was an easy job to use the jacking threads on the ends of the carrier to make the final adjustment.

Do not Toyoda have that jacking facility?

B

Richard is correct. I hope Bob, that you are not saying that you use the carrier backlash rings to adjust the pattern!? I dont want to step on anyones toes, or tell your grandma how to suck eggs, but use the carrier bearing backlash adjusters to adjust the pattern in a Toyota diff is the wrong way to do it.
Richard, setup your preload/pattern with the crush spacer as per normal, then disassemble the whole diff again and measure the crushed spacer, this will give you a starting point for your solid spacer setup. Another place to check for a starting point is to go thorough the diff builds here
http://www.gearinstalls.com/
"Zuk" has built diffs in the US for ages and for some of the big names in the sport, there is a lot of good info on his site, and some good tricks/ideas for building tough toyo diffs. I follow his methods to a tee, and mine handle the abuse no worries.

[Moriarty]

55

Are you SURE????



0.03mm is 0.001 181 102 362 2 inch about 1 1/6th thou.
seems like bloody thin shims dont they?

Must be a range of sizes, and if there are a lot of shims the same thickness, I forsee lots of difficulty.
Only diff I had setup had maybe 6 shims and no two were the same thickness. Mind you, moving the pinion in and out also made a dif to the diff. Once the blueing showed the two gears to be in the correct relations sip for mesh, it was an easy job to use the jacking threads on the ends of the carrier to make the final adjustment.

Do not Toyoda have that jacking facility?

B

Richard is correct. I hope Bob, that you are not saying that you use the carrier backlash rings to adjust the pattern!? I dont want to step on anyones toes, or tell your grandma how to suck eggs, but use the carrier bearing backlash adjusters to adjust the pattern in a Toyota diff is the wrong way to do it.
Richard, setup your preload/pattern with the crush spacer as per normal, then disassemble the whole diff again and measure the crushed spacer, this will give you a starting point for your solid spacer setup. Another place to check for a starting point is to go thorough the diff builds here
http://www.gearinstalls.com/
"Zuk" has built diffs in the US for ages and for some of the big names in the sport, there is a lot of good info on his site, and some good tricks/ideas for building tough toyo diffs. I follow his methods to a tee, and mine handle the abuse no worries.[/quote]


Never owned a toyoda, had a bunch of pre and post war chevs, a LOT of vauxhalls, ONE Ford. (for which I am very sorry) and a few rice rockets The chevs and Vauxhalls (bedfords) are dead easy using the adjusters. I remember one having bearing loading adjusters as well as cw&p engagement adjustments. Back in the day when quality and ease of repair was more important than cheap. The Pinion was preloaded in the time honoured way, crush tubes et all. BUT the CW was drifted back and forth with its specific adjusaters,

I was intrigued to see the Korando diff (front) was done with shims. The screw adjusters are only for bearing running tolerance..


stepping on toes? Go for it, Jafa, theres a whole club full of guys enjoying doing just that!! Damn, its good fun!!! Enjoy while you got the chance!! LOL


B

[Bulletproof]

Hi Bob

The shim in question is 41201D between pinion teeth and the bearing



Cheers Richard

[Moriarty]

Gotcha. The shims move the pinion back or forwards to achieve clearance

My old cars didnt do it thataway. the crownwheel carrier was adjusted sideways instead.

various makers do it various ways. The Korando does it the old Yankee way too. but uses shims to move the carrier, not an infintily variable adjuster.
Good luck!!!!!

B

[Bulletproof]

Gotcha. The shims move the pinion back or forwards to achieve clearance

My old cars didnt do it thataway. the crownwheel carrier was adjusted sideways instead.

various makers do it various ways. The Korando does it the old Yankee way too. but uses shims to move the carrier, not an infintily variable adjuster.
Good luck!!!!!

B

The toyota still has the sideways adjusting shim to achieve the back lash.

When you Blue the teeth you are looking for bottom or top contact marks and forward and back marks and to achieve a contact mark in the middle you need to adjust both ways.

I have a 2mm shim which is the half way one so will use that as a starting point.To adjust means pulling the bearing off everytime so thats why I was trying to pick on someone elses experience.

Cheers Richard

[hosehustler]

when I did my rear diff I started with the 2mm spacer and then used the shims that come with the kits, I used 4.88 trail gear R&P, took at least 4-5 times pressing the bearing off and on before the contact pattern was right.

[wjw]

when I did my rear diff I started with the 2mm spacer and then used the shims that come with the kits, I used 4.88 trail gear R&P, took at least 4-5 times pressing the bearing off and on before the contact pattern was right.

Rick did mine for me, took him 3 go's to get it right with the solid spacer. There is no quick way to do it. The number of shims all seems to depend on the pinion, having watched him do a few diffs. The cheap chinese ones take loads, the toyota and Yukon ones take very few.

[Jafa]

Hers a link to Zuks 4.56 solid spacer install, he ended up at 2.45mm after starting at 2.019.
http://www.gearinstalls.com/brian3rear.htm

[Bulletproof]

when I did my rear diff I started with the 2mm spacer and then used the shims that come with the kits, I used 4.88 trail gear R&P, took at least 4-5 times pressing the bearing off and on before the contact pattern was right.

Thanks for the info guys. my rough measurements before putting the bearing on indicate more than 2mm. Can you remember Tim if you had to go bigger rather than smaller. I have a 2.1mm and a 2.33mm so might use the 2.1mm as a starter.

Cheers Richard

[hosehustler]

Started with the 2mm spacer and had to keep adding shims until pinion was deep enough into crown wheel, as the aftermarket kits come with several different thickness shims I have no idea which ones I used but there's at least 3 or 4 shims as well as the 2mm spacer.
and to add to that as well, when I rebuilt both diffs in the old truck the process was identical, only difference was the gear ratio's were 5.29's

[Moriarty]

54

........clip........
and to add to that as well, when I rebuilt both diffs in the old truck the process was identical, only difference was the gear ratio's were 5.29's

THAT'S fkn inneresting, Tim. blind luck/chance or pretty good quality control?

I lean towards the latter, I did a 3.3 cresta diff into a CF bedford housing once, and then had to replace the crown wheel and pinion as seperate items.
CR was too thick, so Paul turned the CR to the same size (thickness) as the old cresta one and I bolted it all up.
Engagement was all same as Richard describes, etc, and LO!! at the first shot too!! THAT was luck/blind chance LOL

B

[Bulletproof]

Today fitted the pinion into housing.

Is anyone else running one of these latest heavy housings ?

Here is a picture of it.



Notice the oil return is half way up the side instead of at the bottom.

The reason I am asking this question is that they have an oil retainer behind the flange bearing.

If water goes in the flange seal it will be trapped in the bearing instead of going to the bottom of the diff which could stuff the bearing.

The seal is 4115 in the picture.




I am thinking of removing the oil retainer so that it can't retain water. Does any one have experience with these diffs and does it cause a problem?

Rokhound made the comment that all the 4 spider ones have the same bearings. This is not true because latest ones have a different flange bearing.

Cheers Richard

[rokhound]

Thanks for that Richard. Handy to know

[Bulletproof]

The new ARB locker (RD 132) turned up today thanks to Jafa. (present for the lux )

I have been running ARBs since the mid 90s and in that time I have done over 150,000ks. Because my truck is mainly used for 4 wheeling a good percentage of that is hard 4 wheeling so overall I am happy with the ARBs and wouldn't have anything else because I like to be able to have control myself.

I have broken 2 cross shafts in that time, but when I look at the new design the cross shafts are a lot bigger and the air feeding from the drive side is also a big improvement.

Fitted the pinion yesterday so over the weekend will fit the locker and then give Jafa a measurement for a solid spacer.

The other problem about the oil retainer holding water in the housing. Decided to tap a drain in front of the bearing.

I Have to have the hilux in top condition for our North Is trip in October. Ferry booked for Oct 22 1.15 pm sailing and returning 2 or 3 rd of Nov.

Cheers Richard

[andrew007]

hi richard,
where did you tap the drain?can you put up a picture.wot type of coil front is ur mate from westport doing?
cheers andy

[haynzy]

The new ARB locker (RD 132) turned up today thanks to Jafa. (present for the lux )

I have been running ARBs since the mid 90s and in that time I have done over 150,000ks. Because my truck is mainly used for 4 wheeling a good percentage of that is hard 4 wheeling so overall I am happy with the ARBs and wouldn't have anything else because I like to be able to have control myself.

I have broken 2 cross shafts in that time, but when I look at the new design the cross shafts are a lot bigger and the air feeding from the drive side is also a big improvement.

Fitted the pinion yesterday so over the weekend will fit the locker and then give Jafa a measurement for a solid spacer.

The other problem about the oil retainer holding water in the housing. Decided to tap a drain in front of the bearing.

I Have to have the hilux in top condition for our North Is trip in October. Ferry booked for Oct 22 1.15 pm sailing and returning 2 or 3 rd of Nov.

Cheers Richard

awesome, lookin forward to seeing this in action in the flesh

[Bulletproof]

hi richard,
where did you tap the drain?can you put up a picture.wot type of coil front is ur mate from westport doing?
cheers andy

Hi Andy
Here are a couple of pics showing the difference between tho old diffs and the newer type.

The old one on the left has a drain channel at the bottom .The advantage here is water or shit goes straight to the bottom of diff and can be drained out.

The new one on the right brings in fresh oil from the crown the same as the high pinion ones and maintains an oil level at all times to nearly the centre line so the front bearing is getting good lubrication even when pointed up hill.

The big disadvantage is any water getting in is trapped.




In the one on the left you can see where I have started to drill a hole and I will fit a 1/8th BSP tapered bung.



The other question I guess you are talking about Stephen Crackett. I dont know but understand it is Prado. Stephen will probably come on line and answer it for you or other wise PM him.

Cheers Richard

[Bulletproof]

I Have to have the hilux in top condition for our North Is trip in October. Ferry booked for Oct 22 1.15 pm sailing and returning 2 or 3 rd of Nov.

awesome, lookin forward to seeing this in action in the flesh

Hi Haynzy
Looking forward to meeting you guys and seeing the different setups and having a few ales.

I will probably completely embarrass myself on my little 35x11.5 simex ET'S compared to the 37-40s up there ,but I do have a winch and they are still making tow rope so it will still be fun and I can take as much shit as I give so will no doubt receive plenty.

Cheers Richard.