Club Class Winch challenge rules etc

[Jafa]

bet it was pete who winged small truck syndrome

Yeah fawkin Pete! winging zook peddler!

[wopass]

bet it was pete who winged small truck syndrome

Yeah fawkin Pete! winging zook peddler!

Bwahhaah

[wopass]

someone's already run off whining to the organisers of the Gwavas challenge about my 40's so now we've had a call from the man saying, "forget the 40's mate, you wanna enter then find some 35's". No amount of talking was going to change his mind, he hasn't seen me or my truck, but his preconceived ideas led him to think I was going to wreck all the tracks for everyone else

AND... i wasnt going to say anything but fcuk it i will...

who gives a fat rats arse what size tyres your running!!! who ever winged about it needs to get a fcuking reality check, is there prize money at steak??? or is this a fun event??? fcuksakes people man up this isnt about who can moan the most and get people kicked out so that improves your chances of winning!! this is about people having fun!!! i would much rather have Jaffa there on 40"s than have to listen to a bunch of winging cnuts piss on about how he shouldnat have been allowd to enter.

so if he has to run 35"s does that mean im not allowd on my 36"s??? cos that will give me a HUGE advantage over the guys running 35"s

getting waaaaay off topic, sorry, ill fk off now

[vvega]

someone's already run off whining to the organisers of the Gwavas challenge about my 40's so now we've had a call from the man saying, "forget the 40's mate, you wanna enter then find some 35's". :

and yea Jafa's correct about the land access for rotovegas, if you want to be on the land, you have to have a wof and reg. plain and simple really

yeah i understand that its land access
it was more the point of start making to many rules and expect a similar turn out and a example of what happens in that instance

and wop straight up your in club class for ALL the right reasons
its just wankers tring to make it easier to win by outlawing the competition
hence why i think making it compeditive is bad
again motor racing has taught us for years that compeditors will do anything they can to gain advantage anything
outlaw engineering ... make others pull there race cars down because they feel like there at a disadvantage cheat sabotage all sorts of nasty stuff , and there is not a motor sport out there that hasent had these issues

thats why i said loose the competition side of it and all of a sudden people will be way more acepting of other trucks tire sizes etc ...
why because they gain nothing buy objecting and tring to exclude

and for a lot of events ... its simply been the death of it
id hate to see this go the same way

and jafa .. if your up these ways and you need 35's your welcome to borrow mine

[vvega]

someone's already run off whining to the organisers of the Gwavas challenge about my 40's so now we've had a call from the man saying, "forget the 40's mate, you wanna enter then find some 35's". No amount of talking was going to change his mind, he hasn't seen me or my truck, but his preconceived ideas led him to think I was going to wreck all the tracks for everyone else

AND... i wasnt going to say anything but fcuk it i will...

who gives a fat rats arse what size tyres your running!!! who ever winged about it needs to get a fcuking reality check, is there prize money at steak??? or is this a fun event??? fcuksakes people man up this isnt about who can moan the most and get people kicked out so that improves your chances of winning!! this is about people having fun!!! i would much rather have Jaffa there on 40"s than have to listen to a bunch of winging cnuts piss on about how he shouldnat have been allowd to enter.

so if he has to run 35"s does that mean im not allowd on my 36"s??? cos that will give me a HUGE advantage over the guys running 35"s

getting waaaaay off topic, sorry, ill fk off now

i dont think your off topic at all
i think your dead on the money ben
didn't see that post when i did mine spent that long tring to make a post that didnt offend everyone

[Jafa]

You can make too many rules, thats for sure, and they are still open to interpretation, take the trials rules for example, not the easiest things to follow. On the other hand, the Aussie Tuff truck has some pretty simple rules, basically ya truck has to have 1500mm of original chassis rails left I think, and firewall and A piller as well, dont quote me on that tho. Pretty much everything else is open, run whatever size tires, diffs gearboxes, tf cases, or any amount of hp you want. What has happened is that there are lots of low budget leaf sprung or simple coil trucks, who know they aint going to win, but do it for the fun of it, and a select top 5 or 10 trucks that are unlimited budget, and very techie trucks like Peter Antunacs 40 series that we saw in the ramp video, LS3 I think, atlas, custom mog axles, prolly 150k worth of truck. What I'm getting at is that there's no reason why club class here cant be similar, with the exception that the premier trucks will be in Challenge class. I dont see why club class cant be free-er as far as rules go, you'll get a lot of lower budget trucks, who know they ain't gonna win, but will have a hell of a lot of fun giving it a go, and a few higher cost/capable trucks like Bens or Genes, who will have a better chance of wining, and push the Challenge boys as well. Dont fawk the class up with too many rules, just let anything that is safe, have a go

[haynzy]

What is this class for? A lower winch challenge class? or a free for all tuff truck challenge?
VVega I hear you about keepin it safe but really if ya got a clock runnin ya gonna want to go faster, ya cant time an event then tell the competitors to slow down
Every motorsport has different levels of entry and as long as this is classed as a motorsport event people are gonna wanna go faster.
I think what needs to happen is maybe an outlaw class and a club class, club class running more original equipment and then the anything goes class for those that have built up something more capable.
Certainly there is a very different debate goin on this site than there is on the 4x4 challenges site.

[Jafa]

I just want to be able to have a go in my wreckage without having to move the rad to the front, and to have no WOF

[vvega]

:lol: I just want to be able to have a go in my wreckage without having to move the rad to the front, and to have no WOF

+1

[DieselBoy]

Bwahahahahahahahaha, hahahahahaha, mwahahahaha, ha, meh

I will still beat you all in my pedal powered 31" tyre'd zook

This thread is soooooooo off topic!!!!

I guess thats why the real debate's over at 4x4challenge's

We not talking about class's, we not talking about individual's trucks and who's got the biggest pedals and the loudest exhaust.

We are talking about club class.

We are talking about defining some rule's that encompass the trucks that are currently running as there is a good selection of trucks.

We are also looking at the bigger picture with the rule's, which is how to feed the Challenge class, and how to keep new people feeding into the sport.

You guy's are yakking about stuff that has been done to death in every thread that had Club class somewhere in the tittle.

All we are doing is sorting out the rule's.

Outlaw class and all that stuff is for another discussion in another thread. Its also a thread that currently exists.

Go the pedal powered zook on 31's

YABBA DABBA DOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo.....................................

[DieselBoy]

These are the rule's I think I would like to see in place. They suit me well, and there's nothing special about my truck, so would imagine it would suit the majority of other competitor's, both current and potential.

Can't wait to see you guy's shred them up

Body/Chassis
any combination but meeting challenge class rules as to panels etc, and chassis mods.(or lack there of)

Suspension
One spring and shock per corner

Engine, Driveline
Any engine from any make, any drive train, any axles

Winch
OEM electric or PTO
Any after market electric single motor (upgrade motor if you wish, commercially avalible)
Aftermarket mass produced Hydraulic (power steer piggyback type)

Safety
4 point cage for hard top
6 point for soft top with tin top (or similar)
4 point harness for all
No WOF but vehicle up to WOF standard of mechanical integrity ( alot of that is covered in the current rules, brakehoses and the like.)
Rest as per current 4x4 Challenge's rules, incl isolator etc etc.

Equipment
As per Challenge class including ground anchor.

[haynzy]

These are the rule's I think I would like to see in place. They suit me well, and there's nothing special about my truck, so would imagine it would suit the majority of other competitor's, both current and potential.

Can't wait to see you guy's shred them up

Body/Chassis
any combination but meeting challenge class rules as to panels etc, and chassis mods.(or lack there of)

Suspension
One spring and shock per corner

Engine, Driveline
Any engine from any make, any drive train, any axles

Winch
OEM electric or PTO
Any after market electric single motor (upgrade motor if you wish, commercially avalible)
Aftermarket mass produced Hydraulic (power steer piggyback type)

Safety
4 point cage for hard top
6 point for soft top with tin top (or similar)
4 point harness for all
No WOF but vehicle up to WOF standard of mechanical integrity ( alot of that is covered in the current rules, brakehoses and the like.)
Rest as per current 4x4 Challenge's rules, incl isolator etc etc.

Equipment
As per Challenge class including ground anchor.

Suits me too

[lilpigzuk]

wheres the challenges website? do you have to be a member to look?

[Jafa]

These are the rule's I think I would like to see in place. They suit me well, and there's nothing special about my truck, so would imagine it would suit the majority of other competitor's, both current and potential.

Can't wait to see you guy's shred them up

Body/Chassis
any combination but meeting challenge class rules as to panels etc, and chassis mods.(or lack there of)

Suspension
One spring and shock per corner

Engine, Driveline
Any engine from any make, any drive train, any axles

Winch
OEM electric or PTO
Any after market electric single motor (upgrade motor if you wish, commercially avalible)
Aftermarket mass produced Hydraulic (power steer piggyback type)

Safety
4 point cage for hard top
6 point for soft top with tin top (or similar)
4 point harness for all
No WOF but vehicle up to WOF standard of mechanical integrity ( alot of that is covered in the current rules, brakehoses and the like.)
Rest as per current 4x4 Challenge's rules, incl isolator etc etc.

Equipment
As per Challenge class including ground anchor.

Well those rules would suit me too....... with one exception, allow rear mounted rads!
As I said earlier, I just want to be able to have a go, but not have to move my rad to the front

[DieselBoy]

Oh, and to combat the percieved reduced vehicle "safety", the club class stage's will be pegge'd accordingly i.e shorter winch's for the lower winch spec's, lower speed potential using gate's/chicane's bla bla bla...

It make's the major difference between Challenge and Club the winch spec's and the suspension.

In challenge you can run your 10k+ super hell beast hydraulic turbo monster winch, and run 50k+ worth of custom suspension that make's doing 140k/h over rough ground feel like your sitting back in your lazy boy watching the WRC on sky.

It also would allow for the guy's running challenge class currently, to come back to club class if they wanted, provided they met the club class spec's.

Relaaaaax, don't grizzle, the only advantage they would have is experience, and we will all learn that before long.

[Jafa]

PS dont worry about outlaw class, there are plans afoot to cater for Outlaw trucks, and will have nothing in common with a winch challenge
I'll keep ya posted as things come together

[wopass]

Bwahahahahahahahaha, hahahahahaha, mwahahahaha, ha, meh

I will still beat you all in my pedal powered 31" tyre'd zook


YABBA DABBA DOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo.....................................

BWaahahhhaaaaahhahaha!!

thats the money shot right there man primo. ROFLMAOPMP

[meatc]

D.B well done for draggin this back on topic. Just as well work has kept me away from the computer for a couple of days.

You guys talking about anything goes, just come have fun have missed the point of the topic. Nobody is saying we shouldn't at some point have a class like that but this is not it. This class is an entry level access to winch challenge competion. If you don't care about winning but want to have a play at winch stuff organise a club level one. This class is about being part of a North Island (hopefully to become national) series.

As for the whole radiator in the rear thing. Yeap its a pain you cant do it but the reason that rule came about is so you dont disadvantage the full body trucks (I know they are now few and far between but they exist) And as for carrying heaps of radiators and swaping them each stage. Does not happen. I've been to a number of events now and some may have 2 but most have worked out how to get good access to clean them in place and do it regularly during the day.

The idea of the topic on the 4x4challenges.org.nz site is to try and create a playing feild slightly lower than the challenge class. If you want to play then accept there may be some rules that dont suit. I have made significant alterations to take my bush/club oriented zuk based buggy to make it comply. Things like b pillars, doors, front clip, putting the rear 250ish mm if chassis back on, tray, tin top etc etc. If the club class rules wash out with something that my truck doesnt comply with I will make it comply or start again (lucky the minister of finance is at work right now ) Why? because I want to play so I will play by the rules.

Oh and a final thing, only to club class entries at Rotorua was the WOF thing, required by the land owner. Nor west and Whangarei had more club class than challenge and from what I here Manukau and Taupo are headed the same way.

Discussion is good but lets remenber its about an entry level class not a top end open class.

[BrentC]

Oh and a final thing, only to club class entries at Rotorua was the WOF thing, required by the land owner. Nor west and Whangarei had more club class than challenge and from what I here Manukau and Taupo are headed the same way.

Discussion is good but lets remember its about an entry level class not a top end open class.

Entry level winch challenge for club members - that doesn't have an over abundance of rules that inhibit club member entry in events their clubs run. Nothing pisses club members off more than not being able to join in their club run events.

[DieselBoy]

Oh and a final thing, only to club class entries at Rotorua was the WOF thing, required by the land owner. Nor west and Whangarei had more club class than challenge and from what I here Manukau and Taupo are headed the same way.

Discussion is good but lets remember its about an entry level class not a top end open class.

Entry level winch challenge for club members - that doesn't have an over abundance of rules that inhibit club member entry in events their clubs run. Nothing pisses club members off more than not being able to join in their club run events.

You miss the point i think......

The name Club Class suggest's it, but it is not a clubman's level fun event.

It's just a name that was dreamed up at the time that has stuck.

I wish we could change it, would get rid of a lot of confusion.

It should be:

Challenge Class

and

Comp Class (Competition Class)

Sound's good, and get's rid of the confusion about the event being a club fun day for shiny's with mud tyre's.

[vvega]

If the club class rules wash out with something that my truck doesnt comply with I will make it comply or start again (lucky the minister of finance is at work right now ) Why? because I want to play so I will play by the rules.

maybe your happy to have dedicated winch challange truck .. but really
my truck ant high spec .. and straight up .. its legal on the road
yet with that in mind .. if i moved the rad back up front .. i cant compete in club class because its to "high end"
and i cant compete in challange class .. because its only got a 4 point

so you leave people like me with a choice
spend another 10k to get it up to challange class spec and pay a massive entry fee for a class i woudl probably hurt myself and my truck in
or rip the few good bits i have in my truck out ruining it for anything i wanna do in it and compete in club class

can you explain the logic in excluding a ROAD LEGAL CERTIFIED truck out of club class ?
because reality is i think and many others think what i DRIVE DAILY is the definition of a club winch truck

[vvega]

Oh and a final thing, only to club class entries at Rotorua was the WOF thing, required by the land owner. Nor west and Whangarei had more club class than challenge and from what I here Manukau and Taupo are headed the same way.

Discussion is good but lets remember its about an entry level class not a top end open class.

Entry level winch challenge for club members - that doesn't have an over abundance of rules that inhibit club member entry in events their clubs run. Nothing pisses club members off more than not being able to join in their club run events.

You miss the point i think......

The name Club Class suggest's it, but it is not a clubman's level fun event.

It's just a name that was dreamed up at the time that has stuck.

I wish we could change it, would get rid of a lot of confusion.

It should be:

Challenge Class

and

Comp Class (Competition Class)

Sound's good, and get's rid of the confusion about the event being a club fun day for shiny's with mud tyre's.

just to quote some posts from the people that started the class and what it was for

A few of us are in the early planning stage of organizing a club class only comp .It is going to be aimed at introducing people to winch challenges.It will be a one day event in Auckland at the Extreme park prob in early May ,It will not be a speed event there will be compulsory winching in some stages ,it will be a fun layed back event ,If you have competed in a winch challenge before you cant enter but your help in marshalling would be great .WE will be finalizing the details over the next 7/10 days and will keep youn posted...Cheers

Thr whole idea is to have a relaxed comp we will be running the standard set of rules ,experence in this type of event is not nessasary most of it comes down to common sense.And yes the tracks will be easyier as we are aiming at the first timer with a reasonably set up club truck ,We will be quite hard on anything to do with saftey, but even though there will be winners and loosers this event is being organized to bring together a group of like minded people and having a bloody good fun day...Cheers

from this threed

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10759&hilit=club+class&start=45

i think you guys have lost the ideals of what this was about
in fact your last post could well be what you guys are turning club class into
but its definatly not what the class was originally about

this is the last post from on this subject because honestly i just dont agree with what the class has turned into and i dont wanna be argueing or discussing something like this with someone i have so much respect for .
this class will be what you guys make it but sadly for a lot of us .. we will be excluded and not attending
sorry guys no good times for us

[DieselBoy]

Trust me when i say the difference between what i have competed in at all of the club class winch challenge's, including Steve's first ever one at the extreme park, was nothing like your average club fun day.

That's the point i'm trying to make.

It's a competition fair and square.

Not a clubbies fun day out.

But it's not so extreme that you need a dedicated purpose built truck for either.

All you need is a well set up tough club truck.

Thats what we are trying to included with the rule's.

A truck like your's, mine, hanzy's, Dan's, Ben's, Jeremy's, etc etc etc etc

We are trying to work out how you include all those guy's, and keep if safe.

Its da interweb, don't get shitty, no one take's anything you say seriously

[vvega]

bro im not shitty with you at all i know its not personal at all
and likewise i know your not pissy with me
ive just accepted that its not gunna happen

[350cruiser]

WTF
why reinvent the wheel
if its not fcuked why fix it?
the people that think that they can win first time out in ANY SPORT is dreaming, but has happened.
the ones that place in the top spots have got there by hard work, modifcations and TEAMWORK.
moving the goalposts to suit the beginners and standard trucks dissadvantage those that have put in the hard yards and sleepless nights getting it sorted.
if you want to place or win you need to do what everyone else has and harden the fcuk up.
the rules work as they are.
this year there has not been a single team thats winning everthing so its self regulating.

[BrentC]

Oh and a final thing, only to club class entries at Rotorua was the WOF thing, required by the land owner. Nor west and Whangarei had more club class than challenge and from what I here Manukau and Taupo are headed the same way.

Discussion is good but lets remember its about an entry level class not a top end open class.

Entry level winch challenge for club members - that doesn't have an over abundance of rules that inhibit club member entry in events their clubs run. Nothing pisses club members off more than not being able to join in their club run events.

You miss the point i think......

The name Club Class suggest's it, but it is not a clubman's level fun event.

It's just a name that was dreamed up at the time that has stuck.

I wish we could change it, would get rid of a lot of confusion.

It should be:

Challenge Class

and

Comp Class (Competition Class)

Sound's good, and get's rid of the confusion about the event being a club fun day for shiny's with mud tyre's.

Sorry Pete - I haven't missed the point - Club Class is just what it says - a wellish set up Club Truck - like Jim-Bob etc - with the driver willing to damage it.

If the rules change to exclude our Jim-Bobs then I don't think Winch Challenges will survive - why would a club of Jim-Bobs swing their collective weight behind an event if they are being excluded? We organise and marshall etc because our Jim-Bobs want us to - not becauuse 15 or so elite competitors from other clubs need a competition

[DieselBoy]

Sorry Pete - I haven't missed the point - Club Class is just what it says - a wellish set up Club Truck - like Jim-Bob etc - with the driver willing to damage it.

If the rules change to exclude our Jim-Bobs then I don't think Winch Challenges will survive - why would a club of Jim-Bobs swing their collective weight behind an event if they are being excluded? We organise and marshall etc because our Jim-Bobs want us to - not becauuse 15 or so elite competitors from other clubs need a competition

Well, in that case Brent, we are on excatly the same page

Those are they guy's i am fighting for, plus the like's of myself, meatc, wopass etc etc

I don't want to see the likes of the above get ruled out of the competition by people saying are trucks are to highly spec'd with engine mod's and suspension up grade's and traction aid's, as they think it should be more aimed at club fun day shiny's with mud tyre's......

Thing is we are well past that point in the discussion. Non of these vehicle's will be getting ruled out.
I still think we just formalise Steve's current rule's and be done with it!!!!

I personally don't care if i'm up against a 50K purpose built truck, I will still be smiling watching my winchman running up the hill covered in mud

[BrentC]

as they think it should be more aimed at club fun day shiny's with mud tyre's......

That's a Gymkhana

[darinz]

What is happening at present is a discussion about what people want to see in the rules. There is no agenda, there have been no rules written, etc etc.

I started the thread with a few discussion points that have been raised over the past few competitions. These are points for discussion and have generated alot of feedback so were defenitely points needing discussion.

No one said anything was broken and no one is trying to fix anything. 4x4 Challenges has been asked to add a Club class rules section to it's rules. To do this we need to know what people want so we are holding the discussion in a place where we get sensible discussion from people who are involved in the sport. Anyone involved can register and join the discussion. The discussion is not being held here as people get on their high horse and focus on stupid little things to benefit themselves rather than the greater good.

The goal of the formalized rules will be to maintain what is a very very good class. Not to change it, not to make it harder or softer but to make it easier to understand.

As for making rules to make it easier for us to win. What a load of crap. I am driving the discussion and I don't compete in club class. (some would say I don't compete at all at present )

A Winch Challenge is a particular type of 4x4 competition. It doesn't suit everyone and doesn't pretend to. In Oz the Tough Trucks were catered for by the CCDA but they went their own way because they didn't want to do WC's. Why would we put a huge amount of time and energy into a bunch of guys that 1 don't really support what we are doing, 2 will end up doing their own thing anyway and 3 we have a much bigger group that are activly out there doing it (rather than just talking about it) and really support the sport. We can help them have a series of fun, competitive events and as there is an annual rules review we can change things to suit.

The radiator and tyre topics get tossed around all the time. I agree the that the tyre size should be increased but I'm just one voice and the topic is up for discussion at the end of this season. It was on our C list which meant it had 12 months notification of review. I doubt it will change as too many people think that 36.5" is too big. The radiator discussion was held last year and most didn't want it changed. Tough, but that is democracy.

The only thing I have any power over is getting discussion happening. Which based upon the current feedback I'm doing quite well! I can't change or create rule nor can ANYONE else. All we are doing is formalising what the masses want. And sorry vvega and jaffa but you aren't the masses so either play along or set up you own events.

You have to learn to respect other peoples ideas as what we are doing at present is asking people for ideas so that we can discuss them. But we are talking about a particular class of motorsport and there certain fundamental restrictions. Tyre size, radiator placement, base type of vehicle are some of these. These things are not up for discussion as there is another time, place and process for that. (but they are up for discussion there)

In this discussion there is no right or wrong answer just opinions and you know what they say about opinions? They're like a__holes, everybodies got one and they all stink!

[Jafa]

The only thing I have any power over is getting discussion happening. Which based upon the current feedback I'm doing quite well! I can't change or create rule nor can ANYONE else. All we are doing is formalising what the masses want. And sorry vvega and jaffa but you aren't the masses so either play along or set up you own events.

Fair enough