Maxxis Trepador 30/9.5R15 on 1996 1.6 Escudo help please

[flyingrhino]

Greetings fellow mudders,

I've recently purchased a 1996 Suzuki Escudo (Chassis TA01W , engine G16A).
The intention is to go on easy 4WD trips (not the hardcore club trips you guys are used to), beach/sand runs and lots of paddock/farmtrack driving. I'd truthfully say 95% road, 5% offroad.

I want a second set of tyres to use for offroading, which I will swap over at home. Doing some homework on the Internet I've found good reviews on the Maxxis Trepador 30/9.5R15 tyres. I want to pair them up with 15x7 steel wheels.
What's your advice on putting these tyres on my truck?
1. Am I going too big, should I go 29" instead?
2. What's the minumum bodywork/suspension I need to accommodate these tyres? Budget is an issue. But safety first! I'm mostly on the road so I don't want to risk road safety for myself or other road users. I understand that body lift needs to be certified (480$), but suspension does not.
3. Can I get away with putting longer springs front and back, and nothing else? (Safely!) Or do I have to go springs+shocks?
4. All bodywork will be done at a professional 4WD shop. I can't do these things myself. Well, not just yet...

Thanks,


Rhinos love mud .....

[Pico42]

I won't tell you what to do, but I will tell you what has worked for us and relate it to the driving you want to do. We have a 96 3dr Vitara. It had BFG All Terrains and some tow hooks (No lift, no snorkel) and we have taken it into a lot of places without too much difficulty. I would venture that this setup would be more than adequate for the driving you intend to do.

We now have BFG mud terrains and a snorkel, still no lift (but the springs/shocks etc are sitting outside waiting for a fine day - september probably). We are happy doing Grade 3 type trips, will do some Grade 4 stuff with a lot of thought and sometimes some chains (Club trips but, a tow rope alway handy). This seems to me to be a bit more than you are expecting to do.

When we put those all terrains on, we found that the on-road travelling improved dramatically (don't recal what road tyres were on it beforehand, probably middle of the road) plus we got some 80,000kms out of them. All four were warrantable when we replaced them - they had just got too low for off-road use.

The two photos below show you what we accomplish. 1st one we got through (Once we put the power on) the second we didn't get through on that day - but have since. (Hope the photos come through...)





Food for thought anyway. Upshot is you may not need much modification. But then, I do wholeheartedly encourage any sort of mods ...

Cheers
Ross

[flyingrhino]

Thanks for the response.
I've so far got a 30mm spring lift + rear shocks so I'm hoping to get in the 30's.
How big are the tallest tyres you've used on your suzi with no issues?

Cheers,

[icekayak]

Hey
Have a search through the suzuki forms here. It has been talked about many times

On my old stock vitara I could only just fit Hankook 235/75-15 tyres on it (Actually measure about 28.9"). It has rubbing on full lock in the steering and would rub at the top of the back guards on compression. It is not only the tyre size but also the rim offset that makes a big difference.

Also many tyres are not as big as they say but some tyres are even bigger. Eg 32x9.5x15 simex's are actually 33.4" my 31" scorpions are actually about 30.3"

If you are worried about certification from memory you are only allowed a 5% change in circumference. Stock tyres are about 27" diameter (84.78" circumference) - 30" tyres would be 94.2" circumference a change of 10%. So officially should be certified.

Having said that I ran 31" tyres on my Vitara bit it took a bit of guard cutting to fit them, so i would say 30" are about right for size vs cost vs useage. Another option which go very well for a cheap price are 700x15" SAT's these measure 29" but are only 7" wide so don't have as many rubbing issues.

[Pico42]

Thanks for the response.
I've so far got a 30mm spring lift + rear shocks so I'm hoping to get in the 30's.
How big are the tallest tyres you've used on your suzi with no issues?

Cheers,

Thats the thing, we didn't change the tyre size much - simply found the closest size BFG had to standard, Those tyres we have are 215/75 r15. Within 5% of standard so not triggering the need for certification.

Having said that, I would like to get to 31's. Pretty much because I have spent too much time on here and have seen what can be done with not too much effort...

But if you have a lift already, you should be able to get 30's on OK. As said above, search through the forum here and you will find a lot of information - much of it is based on experience and is what I have based the springs/shocks sitting at our door on.

[flyingrhino]

I'll be running these as weekend tyres only, I'm holding on to my 195/80R15 hankook ATs for the road.
Having said that, with a 30mm lift and offset 0 on 7"x15 rims, would I still have issues?
I really don't want to spend a grand only to find out 30s are too big, even with my minor mods.
Is rubbing an issue? If it only happens at full lock+max articulation, should I be worried ?
I also heard about sledgehammering the rear guard to put it in it's place, would this be bad?

Cheers,

[lneil]

These guys have all given you good advice, it all depends on what you want to acheive and how much effort you want to go to.

I ran 30" muds on 15 x 7's with only a 1" body-lift with no problems. I now run 31" muds and need 2" body-lift, 2" suspension lift, -15mm offset and a little bit of guard cutting at the rear of the front wheel-wells.

For someone like yourself that apparently does not want to go hardcore off-roading, it sounds like 30" tires would suit very well with very little effort and modification.

For some of us like me with fewer brain-cells, 'more is better' (even if its actually worse!)

[flyingrhino]

Hi,
Thanks all for the responses. I ended up trying out a mates 29" buckshots on my truck and they fit nicely with no rub at max articulation and worst steering position. 30's would rub and seem just a little too big without pounding back the guards.
... And the tiny 1.6 became even more gutless with the 29's so 30's would kill it even more.
So I went for 29's instead of 30's just because of living too close to the edge and didn't try to squeeze out every last bit of performance. Sure 1" makes a difference and size does matter, but I already got 2" more than I began with (stock 27" to 29") and 195 to 235 is certainly wider. So my current tyre status is 235/70R15 with steel rims offset zero.
I think this thread will definitely be useful to future softcore offroaders with the same questions, as we've covered the subject quite thoroughly.

Just putting some numbers here for future reference:

1996 Escudo 3 door 1600cc 16 valve
Stock tyres 195/80R15 (Hankook ATs)
Current tyres Maxiis Trepador 235/75R15 ,
7" wide, offset zero rims (tyres are slightly too narrow for 7" rims, though 6.5" would work perfectly. I did however choose the 7" so that if I upgrade tyres I could keep my old rims, the downside being I'd need to watch the pressure and not go too low - more on this after I try it in the field)
Speedo change calibrated with GPS 7.5% (100K's on speedo = 107K's on GPS , 50K's on speedo = 54K's on GPS)
Effective 32mm spring lift with heavy duty monroe rear shocks (that's 32mm higher than the truck was before I changed the springs, but the old ones may have sagged a bit too). Definitely a harder ride with better onroad handling with the new suspension and the Hankooks.

Downside - driving in town at 50-55 K's the new 29's runs in the low 2000's 4th gear, and every small hill mandates downshift to 3rd gear at 3000 RPM. With 27's the truck would take the climb in 4th with no effort.
Driving 100K's is 3000 RPM and the truck is quite happy on the flats, though even small hills like the Oteha valley section of SH1 going north towards Rodney means shifting into 4th.

Cheers guys.

[Pico42]

Downside - driving in town at 50-55 K's the new 29's runs in the low 2000's 4th gear, and every small hill mandates downshift to 3rd gear at 3000 RPM. With 27's the truck would take the climb in 4th with no effort.
Driving 100K's is 3000 RPM and the truck is quite happy on the flats, though even small hills like the Oteha valley section of SH1 going north towards Rodney means shifting into 4th.

Have you done anything to get more power? Exhaust? Intake? Engine?

[lneil]

Pico42 makes a good point FlyingRhino, I would strongly urge you to put a set of extractors on if you haven't already. They not only give a slight breathing and perfomance advantage, they also reduce the likelihood of overcooking the cylinder-head.

Another point you should remember is that half of the increase in tyre size sits above the axle centres, so you have only gained one inch of clearance from a two-inch increase in tyre diameter.

It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into what you are doing and will end up with a rig that is ideally suited for your particular purposes. Good job, and well done for asking lots of questions.

One thing you have done that you might not find ideal is the use of heavy duty shocks in the rear. I tried that after being advised to do so and it was a complete failure. Yes, the truck sits flat and handles quite well, but the bouncing almost broke my back. The too-hard damping actually reduced my off-road traction dramatically as the rear will skip because the shocks are not designed to work properly on a vehicle with so little weight to affect them. I ended up going to a longer travel Gabriel shock (actually from an old-school Ford Capri if I remember correctly) that allowed greater articulation and retained virtually standard valving. I gave my heavy duty back-breakers to a guy for use on his heavy-metal tank (Jeep J20) with almost twice the weight of the little 'zuk. I would use 5-door or V6 springs to give you the one to two inches of lift you want.

[flyingrhino]

Pico42 makes a good point FlyingRhino, I would strongly urge you to put a set of extractors on if you haven't already. They not only give a slight breathing and perfomance advantage, they also reduce the likelihood of overcooking the cylinder-head.

Yes, point taken, I will certainly look into this after I complete phase 2 of the build (mounting the tow hooks and replacing the front & back bumpers with steel tubes)
And no, I haven't done anything to the engine to get more power. this may come much later after I truly experience the gutlessness of it. But extractors definitely need addressing.

I would use 5-door or V6 springs to give you the one to two inches of lift you want.

I have the longer springs already front and back, I just thought the longer springs would need longer dampening so I did the rear shocks as well. After all, these are the driving wheels I use 98% of the time. I will see how the truck handles offroad/onroad and then come back to you guys for advice.