Best Practice for electirical wiring ??

[Flyingpony]

Need to partially rewire my Series 2a Land Rover electrical system. Long term it'll get a full rewire but right now I need to get it mobile again.

I'm unsure of the best way to make a very solid connection between the wire & it's terminal and ensure that the two remain connected and has water resistance.

What's the best practice to follow ??

Remove plastic cover from terminal, crimp the wire into the terminal so the wire plastic sheath touches the terminal, add solder to the protruding crimped wires & finally cover in heat shrink wrap ??

Thanks.

[Furgus]

Remove plastic cover from terminal, crimp the wire into the terminal so the wire plastic sheath touches the terminal, add solder to the protruding crimped wires & finally cover in heat shrink wrap ??

Yup - that should do it.

[Bolo]

Need to partially rewire my Series 2a Land Rover electrical system. Long term it'll get a full rewire but right now I need to get it mobile again.

I'm unsure of the best way to make a very solid connection between the wire & it's terminal and ensure that the two remain connected and has water resistance.

What's the best practice to follow ??

Remove plastic cover from terminal, crimp the wire into the terminal so the wire plastic sheath touches the terminal, add solder to the protruding crimped wires & finally cover in heat shrink wrap ??

Thanks.

Sounds good to me

[rokhound]

Or before you crimp the terminal over, tin (solder) the terminal and the wire being fitted, and actually solder the 2 together, and then crimp over and add the heat shrink.

[gimmemud]

Why would you bother with the crimp over top. If you solder and heat shrink properly it should not come off.

[tweake]

Why would you bother with the crimp over top. If you solder and heat shrink properly it should not come off.

provided the connection doesn't get hot its fine. however i much prefer to have physical pressure holding the connection together rather than relying on solder. solder only connections, if not 100%, can dry out and you get a bad connection. especially so with DIY'ers.

however i much prefer to go use the old copper twin crimp connectors which don't seam to be used much by auto sparkies. however all factory connectors are of that type.

one crimp crimps the wire to the connector, the 2nd crimp part crimps the insulation to the connector. however you need to use proper crimper for those.

tin the connector before crimping and then solder the wire after its crimped. heat shrink etc over the connector if required.

the crimping provides the actual connection, the solder fills all the gaps where moisture general gets sucked in and adds extra area for the connection.

[callum007]

or buy the crimp lugs that have a heat shrink outer.. so you just crimp em and shrink em. either option done "properly" is not going to fail under normal conditions

[tweake]

heat shrink outer? not sure if i've seen those. mainly just plastic outers. heat shrink is ok but it still doesn't hold the insulation in place. pull on the cable and the insulation will slide back down the cable exposing live wire.

trouble is they may be fine in normal situations but who here does anything normal
if your off the tarseal there's no such thing as normal.

I've seen wires pull out of crimp connectors and the wire was cable tied flat so there was no strain on the cable. vibration kills connections.

[rangimotors]

solder and heatshrink, thats the way i have always done it, doesnt matter if its at work on a machine or at home on my truck same rules apply. I use the adheasive heatshrink (stuff with the glue inside) and use a good lenght of it. Some times i will double layer, eg use a piece 3-4 times the length of the join and then use a big long bit over the top of that. There should never be any strain on it, if the connection is being pulled apart then extend it, if its getting caught up on things tie it out of the way. If its in an open place put it inside some of the plastic flexible hose with the slit down the side.

Crimps have there place but if you are joining a loom of 10+ wires you dont want a massive bulge of crimps kicking around all over the show.

[Sadam_Husain]

Why would you bother with the crimp over top. If you solder and heat shrink properly it should not come off.

Its not a biggie but if you put a crimp over the solder joint it takes any stress off the rigid joint and puts it back onto the flexible cable, over time the rigid solder joint can fatigue and break when its under stress and tension

Braided cable is designed to be flexible and move and ridgid stuff isnt and it breaks

[wjw]

I agree with Sadam,

I have had crimped then soldered joints break. I now use the 3 point crimps, ie insulation / copper / insulation, then ideally heatshrink or insulation tape, you do need the proper cimper for these though

[Flyingpony]

Thanks for the advice, happy to read my wiring thoughts are on the right path

[darinz]

I agree with the crimp then solder then heat shrink (the type with glue though). I've used that on everything and never had a conection problem. (had plenty of other but not eletrical)

[turoa]

I usually dont bother soldering crimps because theres no real point to it. It doesnt give you a better connection or anything. A decent crimping tool is all you need.

BUT I know you can buy some connectors which you shove your bit of wire inside, and then heat with a heat gun. It then solders and heatshrinks over the top in one go. Its a very neat and easy way to do things

[Taz]

BUT I know you can buy some connectors which you shove your bit of wire inside, and then heat with a heat gun. It then solders and heatshrinks over the top in one go. Its a very neat and easy way to do things

They sound awesome. Expensive?

[rangimotors]

yea im also interested, i've never seen them i have only seen the cripms that come with heatshrink on them i would of thought that if they had ones with solder in them that the heatshrink would melt way before you got it hot enough to melt the solder inside. I'm always after new toys and tricks for work so if you find them or no of someone who sells them let me no.

[Taz]

Was in Jaycar this arvo and the fella there hadn't heard of it so thats one place off the list.

[turoa]

Ill try and find out where you get them from.

[tweake]

I agree with Sadam,

I have had crimped then soldered joints break........

be interesting to see why they broke. i would suspect the terminals made poor connection and overheated the connector. solder dries out, the heating and cooling expands/contracts the wire and has it comes loose it makes it own heat.
I've seen plenty of fried connections from that. the faults not actually with the crimp or solder but rather what the other end of the connector is joined to.

I usually dont bother soldering crimps because theres no real point to it. It doesnt give you a better connection or anything. A decent crimping tool is all you need.........

yes/no.
the crimping alone is good enough but the solder does help.
one thing i've seen is, especially with very fine strand cables, is water gets sucked up the cable. this corrodes the terminal out from the inside. even if its sealed with heatshrink etc the wire itself is not sealed.
dap a bit of solder on the end and it gets sucked up the cable sealing it.

i'm told there is an old trick of tinning the actual connector (mainly the ring connectors) which increases the current capacity of the connectors (probably because the extra solder has made it thicker). also i would suspect that the old lead solder is soft so the bolt/nut that tightens onto the connector bites into it and you get a better connection.

[gimmemud]

i'm told there is an old trick of tinning the actual connector (mainly the ring connectors) which increases the current capacity of the connectors (probably because the extra solder has made it thicker). also i would suspect that the old lead solder is soft so the bolt/nut that tightens onto the connector bites into it and you get a better connection.

If you use the correct size lug (i'm assuming this is what you mean when you say ring connector) It will withstand the current and if it can't you need bigger cable.

What makes a connection fail is a bad join. If you don't know how to solder or don't have the correct crimping tool, get someone who knows how to or has the correct tools. Bad connection leads to heat which causes high current, high current causes more heat which can lead to bad things like fires.

Today i joined a 400V cable in the nice wet ground running along side a gravel driveway. I know it wont fail because i use the correct gear and the correct tools.

[tweake]

that may be true with the big connectors your using for power cables but smaller auto ones tend to be a bit undersized for the size cable they fit. no real problem as its not enough to cause a problem on its own. however if you want to make sure its going to handle it......

on important applications i like to make them as best i possibly can. that little bit extra can save your arse at times.

sorry been yacking to local sparky today. had a truck with a ballsed up inverter setup on it. 4000 watt 12 volt inverter on a 24 volt truck....arghh!

[Flyingpony]

Is the term tin and solder the one and same ?

Plan on going into the hardware store to get some soldering wire and use that, or, am I barking up the wrong tree ?

Is there any particular solder wire I need to get or will any old bundle do the trick?

The new wiring will more-or-less be retained when it gets rewired. Priced up some cables at Supercheap/Repco/Mega10, boy is that stuff expensive.

Any leads on cheaper outlets?

[gimmemud]

Is the term tin and solder the one and same ?

Plan on going into the hardware store to get some soldering wire and use that, or, am I barking up the wrong tree ?

Is there any particular solder wire I need to get or will any old bundle do the trick?

The new wiring will more-or-less be retained when it gets rewired. Priced up some cables at Supercheap/Repco/Mega10, boy is that stuff expensive.

Any leads on cheaper outlets?

Any electrical wholesaler should be able to do you a deal on cable or bnt, dse i would think should be a bit cheaper. Anywhere you can get trade price without a card should be a goer. Twl also might do good prices.

Ask for appliance wire at an electrical wholesaler (flex cable).

[rokhound]

If you are just doing a basic wire up job, I have found the best way is to buy either 5 or 7 core trailer wire. Rip it open and you have quite a bit of colour coded wire.

[Bulletproof]

I used to be a forman in charge of wiring on Leyland and AEC trucks and buses.

I personally like to just crimp wires with a good quality crimping tool and the connection will give no trouble

The disadvantage of solder is that the solder travels along the wire and the connection to too rigid and with the shaking of a truck can make it break.

Some people use acid flux and this travel under the plastic and corrodes the wire even if it is flushed in water.

Cheers Richard

[tweake]

home and appliance cable often has thicker strands than automotive cable which makes it less flexible. just something to watch for especially in the bigger sizes.

good point about to much solder going up the cable, something to watch out for.

tin= lightly coat with solder.

just get the thin rosin cored solder which is typically whats sold in hardware shops.

one thing may have to watch with soldering now days tho is the new type solder requires a lot higher temp. a electronics mate mentioned they are getting lots more bad solder connections on circuit boards. the new stuff is hard to solder with and lots of techs have been scrounging up all the old solder for doing repairs with.

i don't know the effect on auto connections with the new stuff. it doesn't have the lead in it.

[darinz]

The reason we solder crimp terminals is to water proof them. When combined with glue type heat shrink it mean no water and mud can get into the wire to corrode it. In a 4x4 the demands are a bit different to a normal auto application. Sure too much will harden the wire and make it easier to break and sure a good crimp join is just as good to start with.

I also like the idea of tinning the ring terminals. Makes a lot of sense and it is so simple I don't know why we don't already do it! (crap that is 2 things from the same guy in 2 days that I've learnt )

[UBZ]

home and appliance cable often has thicker strands than automotive cable which makes it less flexible. just something to watch for especially in the bigger sizes.

good point about to much solder going up the cable, something to watch out for.

tin= lightly coat with solder.

just get the thin rosin cored solder which is typically whats sold in hardware shops.

one thing may have to watch with soldering now days tho is the new type solder requires a lot higher temp. a electronics mate mentioned they are getting lots more bad solder connections on circuit boards. the new stuff is hard to solder with and lots of techs have been scrounging up all the old solder for doing repairs with.

i don't know the effect on auto connections with the new stuff. it doesn't have the lead in it.

The reason new solder is so hard to use is that it has had its lead content removed for ROS complience. look for solder that is 60% tin 40% lead . Jaycar still sell it.

I wouldn't recommend tinning any wire that is going to be crimped only. Either solder or just crimp. the tinned cable will change shape over time under compression resulting in a loose connection. Tinned only wires, are very susceptible to oxidization and corrosion (ie dry solder) between the tinned wire and crimp

A properly crimped connection is much more resistant to vibration than solder. Most boats and planes only use crimped connections. Most important thing is good quality crimps and crimper. (Not warehouse crimps etc.)

I generally crimp / heat shrink and then Pim / PVC tape for protection.

[tweake]

I wouldn't recommend tinning any wire that is going to be crimped only. Either solder or just crimp. the tinned cable will change shape over time under compression resulting in a loose connection. Tinned only wires, are very susceptible to oxidization and corrosion (ie dry solder) between the tinned wire and crimp

you can't really crimp tinned wires. its like trying to crimp a solid wire. fairly pointless with basic crimp gear that most people have.
if you crimp then solder, solder doesn't get in between the crimp and wire where its touching. solder will only go where there is gaps. so if the solder drys out you are still left with a normal crimp.
the only real problem i can think of is if you heat the sh*t out of the wire/connector it will expand and tend to undo the crimp a bit. (and that usually melts the insulation off)

I also like the idea of tinning the ring terminals. Makes a lot of sense and it is so simple I don't know why we don't already do it! (crap that is 2 things from the same guy in 2 days that I've learnt )

i picked that up off an old guy who's from the solder only days.
i'm not sure how effective it is with this new solder tho. lead solder i can understand as its soft and bolts will bite into it.
some of these old guys have lots of useful old tricks. especially when they couldn't get bits and had to actually make their own connectors/parts.

[vvega]

trying to seal wire from capillary action corrosion is silly ... you just simply cant do it without the proper connectors

trying to crimp a tinned or soldered join is silly .. its like trying to crimp water ... as soon as you heat it.. everything you had that was crimped is now... not ... solder also turns in to a dry joint when crushed .. they teach you this first year automotive apprenticeship

tinning rings.. is another silly idea
normally soldered joins have a thin coating of resign left on them .. this actually insulates the ring from exactly what your trying to earth onto ... had this issue with home done wiring a few times
i guess you could clean it or dip it in solvent ... but really what are you trying to achieve that a good clean clamped surface wont ....and again .. your crushing a solder join .. thus chaces are your making it worse

best practice that we use
use a un insulated crimp terminal crimp it with proper crimper's .. not this shit you get from jaycar etc
then heat shrink
the idea is the the first section of the crimp is your mechanical electrical join

the second crimp .. crimps the insulation .. this takes teh bend and twist loads off the first crimp and holds everything firmly in place...
that is how we do earth's .. that is how the car factory's do it .. so if its good enough for them .. its good enough for us to charge you for

if it wasn't a earth .. it would then just get heat shrink over it
we dont join wires .. unless its in a molex conector .. if it needs to be waterproof .. we then use a sealed bosh connector ... and there mega dollars and have liquid silicon in them to make them waterproof and keep them sealed ... again they spent millions developing this stuff ... so you know it works good

solder is to be avoided at all costs .. in a car it just leads to problems later on

ok professional car wiring hat off

really ... just make it go
ive worked on cars that have had twisted wires that have been tapped up .. that have lasted for 10 years like this......
ive worked on cars that have been wired .. and then wouldn't go .. and tracked it down to broken solder joins and poorly teminated crimping

basically no matter what you do .. if you take your time and make sure the wire is secured and has a good join "test it even"... you will be fine

car wiring is not like house wiring .. nor is it plumbing .. we dont use solid solder
hope that helps