Discussion about the NZFWDA

DJ · Post by DJ » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:14 am

enough of picking on a group of people that perhaps you really dont no the true facts about.

I ant pickin on ya YET Im here to be educated, ok tell me about this group, just the facts :lol:

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:45 pm

For the moment I'm going to stay out of all this. Don't want influence anyone. Of course what's discussed in this thread, will affect things going forward, ie insurance, ore club etc...

I know what I and a small number of the ore members want. But we need more views...

vitara888 · Post by **vitara888** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:54 pm

This could be an interesting thread, if you take money out of the equation, what would you want in your perfect club?

Tracks manitained or opened up?
Events run that you can compete in?
AGM minutes on a website?
A consistant set of rules so that you can build a competition vehicle?
Insurance
Friends
44 inch tyres and portal axles

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:24 pm

DJ wrote:
after all the world needs another unemployed clown thats a mechcanic ???

im another clown mechanic

but im keeping right out of this debate/discussion....

well sort of, all i want is to be affiliated to the NZFWDA (as i have to be to take part in some trips) but im not interested in being in a club so to speak ,but i cant just join the NZFWDA i have to go through a club....and i just dont care for it, i do however care for ORE and i think that if we could become affiliated with NZFWDA then more is the better, i dont give a flying rats arse about pros and cons and we can get better access or have insurance etc as all of that just adds crap im not interested in(but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover :roll:

) im out to have good safe clean :twisted:

fun doing the sport/recreation i love to do

and there is NOBODY ! going to try to tell me i cant have big tyres on my truck.

thats a little off topic here but thats just toooo bad :lol:

mercutio · Post by **mercutio** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:41 pm

wopass wrote:
DJ wrote:
after all the world needs another unemployed clown thats a mechcanic ???

im another clown mechanic but im keeping right out of this debate/discussion....

well sort of, all i want is to be affiliated to the NZFWDA (as i have to be to take part in some trips) but im not interested in being in a club so to speak ,but i cant just join the NZFWDA i have to go through a club....and i just dont care for it, i do however care for ORE and i think that if we could become affiliated with NZFWDA then more is the better, i dont give a flying rats arse about pros and cons and we can get better access or have insurance etc as all of that just adds crap im not interested in(but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover ) im out to have good safe clean fun doing the sport/recreation i love to do and there is NOBODY ! going to try to tell me i cant have big tyres on my truck.

thats a little off topic here but thats just toooo bad

hear hear well said that man my sentiments exactly

Rangielux · Post by **Rangielux** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

wopass wrote:
all i want is to be affiliated to the NZFWDA (as i have to be to take part in some trips) but im not interested in being in a club so to speak ,but i cant just join the NZFWDA i have to go through a club....and i just dont care for it, i do however care for ORE and i think that if we could become affiliated with NZFWDA then more is the better, i dont give a flying rats arse about pros and cons and we can get better access or have insurance etc as all of that just adds crap im not interested in(but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover ) im out to have good safe clean fun doing the sport/recreation i love to do and there is NOBODY ! going to try to tell me i cant have big tyres on my truck.

Hey Wopass, what about this for you and guys that want a similar set up. :?:

Taken from the United 4WD report to 2006 NZFWDA AGM:

"Remember, anyone interested in four wheeling, but does not want to be an active club member, can support the Association by joining United.

United supporters receive Trail Torque, are covered by the NZFWDA insurance when participating in events organised by affiliated clubs, and have the opportunity to have an input into the Association with suggestions, and to make submissions on any matter regarding four wheel drive use."

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:45 pm

I've joined United...

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:31 pm

as simple as that .... looks like there could be afew of us joining wjw you got a contact for them ??

Cheers Reece

Rangielux · Post by **Rangielux** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:52 pm

Rangielux wrote:when participating in events organised by affiliated clubs

this may be the only drawback - not being able to organise your own event that's all

Otherwise Email Carmen - u4wd@nzfwda.org.nz

DJ · Post by DJ » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:55 am

Rangielux wrote:

when participating in events organised by affiliated clubs
this may be the only drawback - not being able to organise your own event that's all

and because of this very reason is why I support a ORE club as events can be arranged thru this media thus satisying some insurance requirements. The other spin off is the ability to organise runs to support the running of this site to be self funding. I feel that if we run off and join United then we are just 'ten small voices rather than one strong voice' Like it or not the best way to cover yourself and others is to use the insurance that is on offer via a club. Recently there has been several runs organised and a condition is that in order to paricapate you have to be a club member, people from this site have inquired and as soon as it came to club membership question then they where not interested. The organisers HAVE to take all care for you and others. Or they are in the shit if it gos wrong. Those that chose not to support a club thats fine but you will miss out. As for club b/s, yes, that happens, but why not dissuss matters on here? you cant get more transparent than that!
Enought! :lol:

lets move on whats the next step :?:

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:07 pm

wopass wrote: (but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover )

I believe that the way the law is written at the moment you don't even have to start the fire to be held accountable for it. If you are caught in the vicinity of the fire (not sure of the actual distance) then you are the one getting stung with the costs of firefighting etc. Not sure how this works or can be made to stick in a court room.
Can somebody clarify on this or verify this law is true?
Seems pretty silly to me.

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:35 am

And what is it that you want?

wjw wrote:For the moment I'm going to stay out of all this. Don't want influence anyone. Of course what's discussed in this thread, will affect things going forward, ie insurance, ore club etc...

I know what I and a small number of the ore members want. But we need more views...

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:37 am

I think what people have to remember is that the NZFWDA does most of that below, and really what is the problem with $25 a year??

vitara888 wrote:This could be an interesting thread, if you take money out of the equation, what would you want in your perfect club?

Tracks manitained or opened up?
Events run that you can compete in?
AGM minutes on a website?
A consistant set of rules so that you can build a competition vehicle?
Insurance
Friends
44 inch tyres and portal axles

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:39 am

Ok guys im going out on my own in the next comment. I think that somehow we should accommodate ore as a club, but i need to work with people that are keen on the idea, not people that are going to bitch and moan about the NZFWDA. Come on guys its on $25 per year for all the benefits.

If someone wants to work with me from ore on this i will do my best to help make it work.

wopass wrote:
DJ wrote:
after all the world needs another unemployed clown thats a mechcanic ???

im another clown mechanic but im keeping right out of this debate/discussion....

well sort of, all i want is to be affiliated to the NZFWDA (as i have to be to take part in some trips) but im not interested in being in a club so to speak ,but i cant just join the NZFWDA i have to go through a club....and i just dont care for it, i do however care for ORE and i think that if we could become affiliated with NZFWDA then more is the better, i dont give a flying rats arse about pros and cons and we can get better access or have insurance etc as all of that just adds crap im not interested in(but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover ) im out to have good safe clean fun doing the sport/recreation i love to do and there is NOBODY ! going to try to tell me i cant have big tyres on my truck.

thats a little off topic here but thats just toooo bad

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:41 am

I agree DJ lets work together to make this work

DJ wrote:
Rangielux wrote:

when participating in events organised by affiliated clubs
this may be the only drawback - not being able to organise your own event that's all

and because of this very reason is why I support a ORE club as events can be arranged thru this media thus satisying some insurance requirements. The other spin off is the ability to organise runs to support the running of this site to be self funding. I feel that if we run off and join United then we are just 'ten small voices rather than one strong voice' Like it or not the best way to cover yourself and others is to use the insurance that is on offer via a club. Recently there has been several runs organised and a condition is that in order to paricapate you have to be a club member, people from this site have inquired and as soon as it came to club membership question then they where not interested. The organisers HAVE to take all care for you and others. Or they are in the shit if it gos wrong. Those that chose not to support a club thats fine but you will miss out. As for club b/s, yes, that happens, but why not dissuss matters on here? you cant get more transparent than that!
Enought! lets move on whats the next step

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:43 am

I have heard this myself. It does seem a little silly, but im not a lawyer, is there any on here that can clarify this for us??

Cloggy_NZ wrote:
wopass wrote: (but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover )

I believe that the way the law is written at the moment you don't even have to start the fire to be held accountable for it. If you are caught in the vicinity of the fire (not sure of the actual distance) then you are the one getting stung with the costs of firefighting etc. Not sure how this works or can be made to stick in a court room.
Can somebody clarify on this or verify this law is true?
Seems pretty silly to me.

DJ · Post by DJ » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:00 pm

I believe that the way the law is written at the moment you don't even have to start the fire to be held accountable for it. If you are caught in the vicinity of the fire (not sure of the actual distance) then you are the one getting stung with the costs of firefighting etc

would this depend on which way you were facing when caught? ie away from fire .. problerly started it and running away
towards the fire... going to put it out .. mind you the empty tin of petrol might take abit of fast talking.. or the BBQ steak pac :lol:

Seriously thou, its going to be mighty hard to prosicute someone for just being in the area.

(but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover )

every thing comes with a price in this case its $25 per :wink:

year

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:32 pm

and that is bloody cheap

(but if i burn down a forestry block i would love the cover )

every thing comes with a price in this case its $25 per :wink:

year

[/quote]

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:56 pm

madaz068 wrote:Ok guys im going out on my own in the next comment. I think that somehow we should accommodate ore as a club, but i need to work with people that are keen on the idea, not people that are going to bitch and moan about the NZFWDA. Come on guys its on $25 per year for all the benefits.

this is what im after, i find that the people here on ORE are the best,freindliest,most helpfull and inspireing buch i have come accross, and if we could keep the way we do things here the way they are, and be affiliated with NZFWDA for the benefits that the organisation offers then more is the better. I for one like the idea of being able to do what i have been doing since i became bitten by the 4x4 bug,which is going out with a bunch of close friends and having a bloody good fun time playing in the mud, and being affiliated at the same time would open up more opportunities. I like the way we organise trips,get togethers etc and the way we are all of the same mind, we do it because its fun and if we can keep it that way then i cant see any problem. there are those who dont like/want to be a part of it and that is entirely their own choice but then their are those of us that want/need to be in a club to do some trips, which is where i cant be bothered buying into a club i have no time for, However i do have time for ORE and i think that even if a small percentage of us formed a club through ORE we would be able to support the NZFWDA and have a strong voice to be heard as well.

So, if we can manage to become a club aswell as stay the friendly,caring,and above all FUN bunch that we allready are then i can see that as only a good thing

can i go back to the garage now?....my fingers hurt :roll:

oldblue · Post by **oldblue** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:44 pm

My comment, I have been in the Nelson Club for 27 years in which time the club has been affelated to the nz4wda, then pulled out for number of years, you know the old story, Paying subs , and what did the do for me.
We had a vote and we are back in. The subs were$20 now $25 and they tell me next year the will be $25 + GST=$28.50. Ever increasing upwards.
Tell me way does a none profit club need to be GST reg

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:02 pm

What exactly are all the benifits??? out of this i get
1)access to more private land
2)insurance when on a trip that is organised by a club (or if ore club orgainised on the website ect).

at the moment i am a student and dont have alot of money therefore rarely go on big trips, most of my 4wding is with m8s for afew hours every now and again. Is there any way to get cover for this type of stuff?

If it was an ore club how would the trip have to be organised? could i just post (in a private forum for club members) that i was going for a trip somewhere and give a time and a place to meet and be coverd?

cheers Pete

oldblue · Post by **oldblue** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:39 pm

It has to be a club trip (arginised by the club for club members) If there are 2 or more trips on the same day, they all have to be blessed by that club.

PeterVahry · Post by **PeterVahry** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:00 pm

Pete, you won't be able to use the NZFWDA insurance for the type of excursion with your mates, that you refer to. Frankly the risk to the policy is just too high for that sort of casual four wheeling.

The reason that the NZFWDA has been able to organise a policy that covers four wheeling at a reasonable cost is because the insurers understand that there is a level of organisation through the club structure and that there are only as many activities as there are clubs. Once the number of events grows so does the risk and inevitably the cost of insurance.

There is certainly a tinge of the "what's in it for me" in many of the comments through this discussion and not a lot of the wider view. I'm pretty sure that even a student could manage $25 for a years membership of the NZFWDA.

The Nelson Club member raised the matter of the annual fee going up again next year to $28 to allow for the GST that our level of financial activity has made necessary. (any activity above $40,000 requires GST registration) That will be $1.85 a week to get public liability insurance and the knowledge that you are contributing in a small (very small) way to an organisation that's advocating for your recreation.

Membership is a two way thing. In the time you belong to a club you may see little apparent direct benefit from the NZFWDA but the Government and it's departments know the NZFWDA exists and what we stand for.

I'm out of here again.

Peter Vahry

1lurch · Post by **1lurch** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:24 pm

Kevin , its good to see the Nelson club has someone ready to jump into my shoes when I'm not at the meeting . Just a shame they didn't get it correct . Every club has such a person .

Anyway the subs will be $28 including GST . there was much discusion as to the increase , at the recent AGM . The figure was $25 + GST (which is $28.13) and was rounded down .

The GST threshold for clubs has a cap , and the NZ4WDA had reached this . The audit brought this to our attention during the last financial year , hence the change in subs for next year . It was just bad timing for the Nelson club who joined the year before an overdue increase.

Alister Giddens
Nelson 4WD club VP
NZ4WDA Southern Zone P.R.O.

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:09 pm

madaz068 wrote:Ok guys im going out on my own in the next comment. I think that somehow we should accommodate ore as a club, but i need to work with people that are keen on the idea, not people that are going to bitch and moan about the NZFWDA. Come on guys its on $25 per year for all the benefits.

If someone wants to work with me from ore on this i will do my best to help make it work.

Myself and a few others have been discussing this over the last few months. The biggest issue right now is that we need some legal advice regarding the initial setup of the club. If you know any solicitors we can talk to, I'm all ears. Although I don't have the time to progess the club thing right now. Which is of course one of the problems.

A club will happen, its just a case of when.

And what do I want the club to do, well to help the 4wd fraternity as a whole, to give 'us' a recognizable voice, to get insurance cover for those trips that need it, etc. I don't want the club to end up being too rigid and political. Thats the hard bit, as some of the threads about it have gone political.

Insurance wise, I do have another option, but would prefer that cash to goto the cause instead of an insurance companies pocket.

Rangielux · Post by **Rangielux** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:11 pm

1lurch wrote:
Anyway the subs will be $28 including GST . there was much discusion as to the increase , at the recent AGM . The figure was $25 + GST (which is $28.13) and was rounded down .

$25 for this coming year (2006/2007)
$28 for the 2007/2008

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:52 am

Peter, you said that "I'm pretty sure that even a student could manage $25 for a years membership of the NZFWDA." and yes that is true, i have no problem with the $25 but im not giving my money away if there is no benafit for me...you still havnt answerd my quiestion, whats in it for me? If the answer is nothing then ill be keeping my money for another crate of beer.....

Pete

krawlr · Post by **krawlr** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:23 pm

so tell me people what do i need to do to start up a club :?:

ive heard you at least need 15 members :?:

and you also have to join the nz4wda :?:

can someone point me in the direction,cheers

DJ · Post by DJ » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:29 pm

If someone wants to work with me from ore on this i will do my best to help make it work.

ok! lets ALL make it happen

whats in it for me?

Maybe if we all listed our thoughts as what we each think we want from the formation of an ORE club and work from there?
1) An influence on the future direction of 4wding ie, land access rights thu what ever means that are effective. The ability to run whatever tires or equipment that the trip organisers allow.
2)The use of others techincal knowledge ie advice from the govering body body, NZFWD, on safety issuses and like.etc etc.
3)The ability to organise runs or events under the ORE "banner" this site is needing funds to contiue and it should not come from one persons pocket, I would hope that events could be organised to raise money to keep this site running.
4) Insurance I think this topic will finallty run out sometime but to me it looks like a plus and I dont think theres any better on the market so far.

Just my thoughts to keep this discussion going

I love this country ... its the Goverment that scares me

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:38 pm

Echo your thoughts there DJ. I have spoken with Mike and some of us are pursuing the nitty gritty process stuff with Nick so as not to clog up the thread. It would be good for people to post what they want from a club so we can get it all together and started but I think you have summed it up for most of us. The nuts and bolts of how the club fits into the forum has yet to be nutted out but let me stress the club is from the forum, not the other way around. In no way will the club dictate to the forum. To think we could have a national club with a recognised national voice with all the input from what we now have and more growth to come. ORE rocks

Al

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