SF70

[offrd666]

Hi, Anyone know if SF70 between napier and taupo is still open?

[skid]

Hi, Anyone know if SF70 between napier and taupo is still open?

sensitive area

give Peter a ring on 0274978783

I doubt it will be open, local clubs put a bit of effort into the area but the ownership still didn't come to the party much and as usual, if someone has gone to the effort to clean up the area to help with the access issue, then they don't really want anybody driving around there which could jeopardise future gains.

[peter m]

You so rite Skid still closed and will probably stay that way

[offrd666]

Well, we went out for a look, far from closed guys!
Parts of the track that have become unusable have been bypassed with the help of a bulldozer and there is very obvious signs that the area is still in constant use.

No signs to say closed, no gates, fences or otherwise.

No information available on any doc site saying anything about the area of if its open or closed.

Is about as closed as puriora!

[skid]

Well, we went out for a look, far from closed guys!
Parts of the track that have become unusable have been bypassed with the help of a bulldozer and there is very obvious signs that the area is still in constant use.

No signs to say closed, no gates, fences or otherwise.

No information available on any doc site saying anything about the area of if its open or closed.

Is about as closed as pureora!

Well there ya go then

You came onto a 4wd forum and asked about an area that has in the past been used for 4 wheel driving.

That was a good move, showed maturity in asking first before just venturing onto land that could be sensitive to access issues.

So you were told that it was a no go area, that the local club has spent countless hours/years working with the landowners in trying to gain access, even held a working bee out there to move all the burnt out wrecks to a suitable area where a truck could crane them onto the deck.

But you decided to ruin it for everyone else and go driving there anyway.

Good move buddy, you just don't realise the damage you could possibly have done by venturing out there.
Sure theres no signs etc etc etc, but thats the case all over the country, where local councils don't put up signage and then moan because people drive there, but you went to the trouble of asking first and then decided to go against any advice you were given.

Well done, I take my hat off to your stupidity.

Mark Pincock
(current president of Windy City Offroaders)
(past president of Taupo 4WD Club for 4 years)

[wopass]

someone needs their happy pills

[offrd666]

Well, we went out for a look, far from closed guys!
Parts of the track that have become unusable have been bypassed with the help of a bulldozer and there is very obvious signs that the area is still in constant use.

No signs to say closed, no gates, fences or otherwise.

No information available on any doc site saying anything about the area of if its open or closed.

Is about as closed as pureora!

Well there ya go then

You came onto a 4wd forum and asked about an area that has in the past been used for 4 wheel driving.

That was a good move, showed maturity in asking first before just venturing onto land that could be sensitive to access issues.

So you were told that it was a no go area, that the local club has spent countless hours/years working with the landowners in trying to gain access, even held a working bee out there to move all the burnt out wrecks to a suitable area where a truck could crane them onto the deck.

But you decided to ruin it for everyone else and go driving there anyway.

Good move buddy, you just don't realise the damage you could possibly have done by venturing out there.
Sure theres no signs etc etc etc, but thats the case all over the country, where local councils don't put up signage and then moan because people drive there, but you went to the trouble of asking first and then decided to go against any advice you were given.

Well done, I take my hat off to your stupidity.

Mark Pincock
(current president of Windy City Offroaders)
(past president of Taupo 4WD Club for 4 years)

Well you would be the idiot then buddy!

I rode from Auckland down on my KTM for a look, its allowed in there! Rode around the top section, went for a walk as riding solo and came back!

Plenty of tread from 4x4's, no signs or notification says its open to anyone wanting to drive it!

IF DOC wanted it closed, dig a trench! like any other keep out areas!

Go take a few more happy pills, like the other guy said!

Come join all us tough trucks when we go out there in the next few weeks!

[skid]

I rode from Auckland down on my KTM for a look, its allowed in there! Rode around the top section, went for a walk as riding solo and came back!

Come join all us tough trucks when we go out there in the next few weeks!

firstly I must apologise for implying you drove a 4wd around there, my apologies

secondly, I don't think you were reading the other posts very well, as they both tell you that the area has been closed to 4wd access for a number of years now

I see that you state you are taking tough trucks in there soon.
Well thats just great.
You are going out of your way to belittle those 4wders who have worked hard with DOC and local councils in the Central North Island in the past.
Yes they have been unlucky to not gain 4wd access to areas like SF70, but they have worked their arses off in other areas that have been re-opened for 4wd use.

So thats fine if you want to be an irresponsible 4wd user and ruin the good work others have put in on your behalf, then go ahead.

I've had my say, but its not like you were listening in the first place

[offrd666]

Yeah well what pisses me off about all this is the local taupo hoons in no club that dont give two hoots about the area, plants or anything are free to wander in and wreck the place, the local thieves are free to go and dump stolen cars in the place, but anyone that actually gives a damn and will take a spade in to do track work and repair the damage from motorcross bikes is meant to keep out. Yet i also ride a bike, so can go dig holes getting up hills and rip whatever up...

GO figure!

Good on ya DOC and i guess Taupo district council.......

If they want people out, then they should set the rules same as the 42 traverse is only open at certain dates for certain vehicles.... If its out of bounds, then it should be able to be found and reasons should be listed. Only makes sense to me.

Mate i only pulling ya leg bout tough trucks, mine is so tough it doesn't have to have a winch, it uses its thumb.

[skid]

Yeah well what pisses me off about all this is the local taupo hoons in no club that dont give two hoots about the area, plants or anything are free to wander in and wreck the place, the local thieves are free to go and dump stolen cars in the place, but anyone that actually gives a damn and will take a spade in to do track work and repair the damage from motorcross bikes is meant to keep out. Yet i also ride a bike, so can go dig holes getting up hills and rip whatever up...

GO figure!

Good on ya DOC and i guess Taupo district council.......

If they want people out, then they should set the rules same as the 42 traverse is only open at certain dates for certain vehicles.... If its out of bounds, then it should be able to be found and reasons should be listed. Only makes sense to me.

Mate i only pulling ya leg bout tough trucks, mine is so tough it doesn't have to have a winch, it uses its thumb.

faaaark thats an awesome reply

I didnt mean to cause a shitfight, and you've answered amazingly.

I agree with everything you said there, especially about the local hoons with no respect for authority.

I'm not knocking the motorbike users but its always the same problem of the biggest sized user seems to get the bad label and hit hardest.

I see it down here in Welly now with forest access that you can't get into, but a bike is light enough to be lifted over or under a barrier or ridden around it. Where a simple barrier usually stops 4wds easily.

Have had many wonderful discussions with mates that ride bikes on who has the right to be in the area we use.

We have to have authorised trip leaders and apply for consent to be in the Akaratarawa Forest yet motorbikes and mountain bikes a free to come and go and then get shitty when they meet a 4wd group on the track who have gone through all the legal process to be there.

Its a viscious world out there and the 4wders will always be on the backfoot and in my eyes its purely because we are the oversized users who are easiest to blame, coz we're driven on the road and seen covered in mud etc etc etc

We can only keep fighting and see where we end up

Cheers

SKID

[DieselBoy]

Yeah well what pisses me off about all this is the local taupo hoons in no club that dont give two hoots about the area, plants or anything are free to wander in and wreck the place, the local thieves are free to go and dump stolen cars in the place, but anyone that actually gives a damn and will take a spade in to do track work and repair the damage from motorcross bikes is meant to keep out. Yet i also ride a bike, so can go dig holes getting up hills and rip whatever up...

GO figure!

If its out of bounds, then it should be able to be found and reasons should be listed. Only makes sense to me.

Agree with you there

Skid is passionate about access, as are we all, you included obviously

If its an unformed legal road then use it, just use it responsibly

If they wanted you out, they would keep you out, but we all know a gate only keeps the honest folk at bay

[lincooln]

If they wanted you out, they would keep you out, but we all know a gate only keeps the honest folk at bay

Very True

[peter m]

Guys, a little bit of history, around 15yrs ago we here in Taupo spoted an article in the local paper stating that DOC had made a change in thier CMS regarding 4x4 access,this meant that there was now where in the Taupo Tongariro Conservancy that we could legally use, there has only ever been two areas 42 Traverse and SF70.
There followed a few years of quite intense battling( by three Taupo Club members John Wilton , John Eyes and myself )with DOC. Basicly we had a big win in as far as DOC were forced to open up the whole proceedure to to public consultation, the end result being that they were forced to change there ways and work with us, hence our present agreement with the 42 Traverse.
The fact that as an organisation ( eg its Members ) we have on the whole respected the situation at both Rangitiki and Tongariro has greatly impressed DOC and made our job dealing with them considerable easier.

[peter m]

cont... also SF 70 is a very dificult area to fight for, it dose not have tree canopy to hide any damage done, hense when flown over it looks like a disaster area , the chairman of the conservation board flys the rescue helicopter,from a conservatio view it is suposedly the most significant frost flat area in the country.
The area is closed to motorised recreation, I totally agree with your coments on how DOC should promote the areas status.
Dont get me wrong, I personally loved 4 wheeling the area pre its closure.

ps Skid there should be a few spelling mistakes in here for you.

Cheers Peter Morse

[offrd666]

Oh how funny! I know both the John's and the fireman Peter Morse, lets make the world even smaller and take a stab in the dark that i bought a landcruiser off skid years ago...

Now, who is the guy flying the rescue chopper??

[skid]

Oh how funny! I know both the John's and the fireman Peter Morse, lets make the world even smaller and take a stab in the dark that i bought a landcruiser off skid years ago...

Now, who is the guy flying the rescue chopper??

cool, what colour was this cruiser, coz I've ever sold 3 and one of them was last seen in a wreckers yard the others went opposite ways in the country

intrigued

[offrd666]

It was an FRP topped MWB, thik it was white, 13bt. Had done time in a quarry.

[PeterVahry]

The Tongariro Taupo conservancy is a curious beast that was captured by Forest & Bird people about 10 years ago and they then managed to create a management scheme (CMS) that outlawed any public vehicle use within DOC lands unless on legal or designated formed roads. That includes motorbikes. As Peter M states, the group he worked with spent 5 years battling the DOC top brass and managed to get limited 4x4 access to the 42nd Traverse.

No other Tongariro/Taupo DOC land has yet had that vehicle restriction lifted. There is a review due shortly of the offending CMS that will provide the option of possibly changing that situation. DOC have been impressed by how the 42 traverse has worked as a 4x4 route with user involvement with maintenance etc and it has set a good precedent.

Illicit use of SF70 simply demonstrates that the 4x4 community has it's rebels and it's up to the majority to try to moderate that unwanted vehicle activity in there.

It's a damn shame that so many viable routes in that conservancy got nobbled by that CMS and I see in the latest meeting minutes of the Conservation Board that they plan to allow a mountain bike concession for events and guiding on the Old Coach Rd and Pillars of Hercules routes. That latter was once a full gravel road to a unique destination! The problem of course now is that even if a new CMS allows more vehicle access, the mountainbikers will have already captured the best stuff.

[Heath]

Its funny reading about how we the 4wders do so much damage but I recall some time ago when woodhill was closed to all but the equine sect and the condition of the roads during that time deteriorated. It seems that a vehicle driven over the sand compact it and smooths out the horse hoof prints. If left uncompacted thes hoofprints allow water to get under the surface and the roads were erroded. Of course that then makes the tacks better for the horsey people (more fun etc) and a night mare for anyone to reinstate. When we were finally let back in some of the main tracks were almost gone and it was the "pathfinders" (no, not the nissans) who with their shovels repaired these roads and compacted the soils once again so they were passable.

The old chestnut that we will polute the area with weed seeds from outside the areas of concern because of our dirty vehicles seems silly when horses are alowed to crap everywhere and they eat stuff that may grow when it is "dumped" inside the controlled area. Funny how horses charging up a sand dune evoke memories of Pharlap and not ecoterrorism!

The twigs and tweats people are a clever bunch, not to mention they are going to save the world for us (covert greenies!!!). They seem to have the ears and minds of a few powerfull groups so get their way most of the time. We however are portrayed as evil polluters so get no traction when it comes to these CMS thingees.

Of course when it all goes pear shaped and they need people in all terrain vehicles for emergencies (snow dumps and missing persons) we are okay again...

[wopass]

i remember driving into the pillars about 10'ish years ago to go hunting,was a top spot, lots of water and bike damage to the track but was very drivable, even the pilon track back to the pines was good... was a long time ago tho

[skid]

It was an FRP topped MWB, thik it was white, 13bt. Had done time in a quarry.

Nope

I have owned a 13BT FRP MWB but it was grey and was swapped with cash for a bigger, better cruiser

you must be thinking of someone else dude

[Moriarty]

i remember driving into the pillars about 10'ish years ago to go hunting,was a top spot, lots of water and bike damage to the track but was very drivable, even the pilon track back to the pines was good... was a long time ago tho

Bloody hell, Wops, me and Paul druv that road from Hydro access road when it was called Access 10 all the way up to access 20 in my 1952 chev, remember El Rocko?? Now its walking only, and still lots of Jap. Was all Red then. Bloody sliteyes have really colonised that stretch of bush.

[Clint]

Illicit use of SF70 simply demonstrates that the 4x4 community has it's rebels and it's up to the majority to try to moderate that unwanted vehicle activity in there.
.

If 4x4 use in SF70 really is devastating a fragile ecosystem then wouldn't ya think DOC could at least get motivated enough to put up a simple sign requesting that people stay out with their vehicle?

Telling the 4x4 clubs maybe deals with 2% of users, another 20% are probably going to go in anyway, but the other 78% currently have no idea that going in there is A Bad Thing & a little communication in the form of a sign might go a long way.

Cheers
Clint

[Moriarty]

........
.clip....
........ I see in the latest meeting minutes of the Conservation Board that they plan to allow a mountain bike concession for events and guiding on the Old Coach Rd and Pillars of Hercules routes. That latter was once a full gravel road to a unique destination! The problem of course now is that even if a new CMS allows more vehicle access, the mountainbikers will have already captured the best stuff.

Peter, you will see in earlier posts that I also know that area pretty well, first time in there was a bunch of years back when the only structure there, was the surge tank and the machine hall (underground), and both were full of water to maintain it. Roads led everywhere and Sika deer were nearly unheard.

My '52 chev has driven all those roads,during the construction phase and I have hunted it lots since.

You mention ALLOWING bikes in there. Well goody.... Bikes have ALWAYS been in there, and ruined many a good walking/hunting access track. Lots of steep downhills in pumice country, mountain bike(rs) dragging their rear wheels making ruts and digging down past the stable top layer of pumice. After the next rains, that wee groove that is so very little damage, is now several inches deep and getting worse every rain.

But its OUR RIGHTS to have access and ride these tracks, the tell me... It seems as that is not entirely the case. what they are forgetting in their desire to exercise their RIGHTS as they perceive them, is the rights of OTHERS and the responsibilities that go with them.

For rights and responsibilities are but opposite sides of the same coin!!

This is the same in all of the readily available tracks on the western edge of the Kaimanawa Forest Park and even in the Clements Rd area. if its a road, they have butchered it, and the 4wd community gets the blame!!

The same is happening in the Akatarawa Forest, bikes M/cs walkers can have access without let or hindrance or FEES but wee 4wders have to be permitted and PAY!!

PS, the Pillars land bridge collapsed a year or so ago.

[PeterVahry]

Bob, your observations are useful and I'd like to suggest to people, that getting pictures of the consequences of mountain biking may well be useful when we need to argue the CMS.
We also will need evidence that practical vehicle roads have existed and could be perhaps re-opened with minimal expense. An argument that I've always tried to emphasise is that those roads are part of our history and should be regarded in similar vein as old buildings and other structures.

I was not aware that the land bridge had collapsed... a great pity as it was quite remarkable.

I agree too with Clint that DOC should make some effort to signpost the SF70 as closed to vehicles. There is nothing to stop anyone of course from contacting DOC at the Tongariro/Taupo conservancy office and suggesting that signs are needed!

Peter

[Moriarty]

Bob, your observations are useful and I'd like to suggest to people, that getting pictures of the consequences of mountain biking may well be useful when we need to argue the CMS.
We also will need evidence that practical vehicle roads have existed and could be perhaps re-opened with minimal expense. An argument that I've always tried to emphasise is that those roads are part of our history and should be regarded in similar vein as old buildings and other structures.

I was not aware that the land bridge had collapsed... a great pity as it was quite remarkable.

I agree too with Clint that DOC should make some effort to signpost the SF70 as closed to vehicles. There is nothing to stop anyone of course from contacting DOC at the Tongariro/Taupo conservancy office and suggesting that signs are needed!

Peter

SF70 is Whirinaki (afaik) and is the area that Northern Zone are working with DOC over. SF90 is Kaimanawa Forest south of SH5

in doing a little research, I foundTHIS site..

and there they speak of SF70 amongst other places, worth a read, Peter.

[Landy Rover]

Bob, your observations are useful and I'd like to suggest to people, that getting pictures of the consequences of mountain biking may well be useful when we need to argue the CMS.
We also will need evidence that practical vehicle roads have existed and could be perhaps re-opened with minimal expense. An argument that I've always tried to emphasise is that those roads are part of our history and should be regarded in similar vein as old buildings and other structures.

I was not aware that the land bridge had collapsed... a great pity as it was quite remarkable.

I agree too with Clint that DOC should make some effort to signpost the SF70 as closed to vehicles. There is nothing to stop anyone of course from contacting DOC at the Tongariro/Taupo conservancy office and suggesting that signs are needed!

Peter

You only have to watch what M/bikes do on those purpose built tracks on TV sport!! They tear them to bits in minutes with 20 or so M/cross machines flying around. DOC should watch that to see what damage they do...Im not against bikes either, but they have alot to answer for..

[Clint]

SF70 is Whirinaki (afaik) and is the area that Northern Zone are working with DOC over. SF90 is Kaimanawa Forest south of SH5

in doing a little research, I foundTHIS site..

and there they speak of SF70 amongst other places, worth a read, Peter.

Pretty sure Whirinaki is SF58 - those numbers are a bit antique anyway.

Hard case that that DRD site has SF70 listed, but not Pureora or Minginui where motorised recreation is actually allowed!

Any vehicle can make a mess, we should try to work with the MTB & motorbike people on access where possible rather than just pointing the finger.

Cheers
Clint

[PeterVahry]

Clint, a reason that I suggest getting pictures of MTB track damage is that many of those routes finish up as a narrow single trail that water follows and erodes into gullies. Where trails are wider, such as a 4wd route, then the bikes use a much wider area and don't seem to create the channels. A big argument for allowing 4x4 use too, as the overall erosion is not greatly increased and maintenance is easier to achieve.

There should be greater emphasis on 'multiple use' trails in NZ where we share the resources. It has worked on the 42nd Traverse.

Peter

[Moriarty]

......
.clip.....
......

Pretty sure Whirinaki is SF58 - those numbers are a bit antique anyway.

Me too, more than a bit

Hard case that that DRD site has SF70 listed, but not Pureora or Minginui where motorised recreation is actually allowed!

Any vehicle can make a mess, we should try to work with the MTB & motorbike people on access where possible rather than just pointing the finger.

Cheers
Clint

Yes, Clint, you are right. It's quite hard to work with some of these groups, when the only contact you have with their members is pulling them out of your grill, after they hit you doing 100kph around a blind corner all crossed up.

Bloody quads do heaps of damage too, when you hit them. My first trip across the "42" a quad had to head for the scrub,because he surprised himself too much .

Peter, the damage caused to tracks by a m/bike accelerating as hard as he can around a corner is quite marked. lots of gravel and dirt is sprayed into the trees.
THIS makes it hard to be all nice and tree hugger towards them