Air rifle / firearms license?

[petefj40]

I knew it was just a matter of time before the high powered air rifles will require a firearms license to own one. GOOD JOB!!

In other parts of the world the energy rating of these air rifles determine whether they can be used or imported or not.

It's about time the law changed and got up to speed with the rest of the world.

Just my opinion..

That cop that was killed by an air rifle. I owned the same semi auto 12 shot that the killer used. They are lethal in the wrong hands.

If they change the law and and take air rifles off people that don't have a firearms license. This will piss my brother off. He'll have to get a firearms license. Then once he gets off his ass and gets that. He'll buy a real gun, and sell the pretend gun.

"this is just another bullshit thread petefj40 started"

[Heath]

Good idea I say.

if it can kill you need a licence simple, hell if it can hurt you get a licence.

[petefj40]

Good idea I say.

if it can kill you need a licence simple, hell if it can hurt you get a licence.

A lot of people Heath, including my bro, won't like a change to the gun law.
But if a LR .22 powder rifle can do 950fps. And a springer air rifle can do over 1000fps. I believe they should change the law. it's been a long time coming.

Would be interesting to hear what others think.

[Nivapulledout]

yep I agree as well. it is Crazy some of the power they are getting out of the air rifles.

[petefj40]

yep I agree as well. it is Crazy some of the power they are getting out of the air rifles.

The semi auto one I owned would pop out 12 shots at just under 950fps as fast as you could pull the trigger.
Great for shooting bunnies. Sure beats reloading a springer air rifle. The buggers are gone by the time you're ready to take the second shot.
With the semi auto, they have no chance in getting away. Just like that poor cop.

[juz]

Might as well make it illegal to own a Bow or slingshot without a License.....Gota draw the line somewhere.

[petefj40]

Might as well make it illegal to own a Bow or slingshot without a License.....Gota draw the line somewhere.

I hear ya. You gotta point.

But these semi auto air rifles, bang-bang-bang-bang at the same speed as a LR powder rifle? Air rifles are at a new level these days.. You can't load a cross bow or sling shot as fast as you can shoot a late model semi auto air rifle. It's as simple as that.

[tweake]

yeah its a bit silly. you can buy decent powered air rifles with no idea on the rules you have to abide buy.

but then again look at the amount of mums/dad who buys kids soft air guns and they run around town with them.
they need to get out there and educate the dumb masses who have no idea the situations they can get into.

what pisses me off that people think guns are toys. i've killed possums with one shot from a subsonic .177 air rifle and its shoots clean through them.
they treat air rifles as toys, then they treat all guns as toys and they do stupid sh*t and get someone shot. just from simply lack of respect.

[petefj40]

yeah its a bit silly. you can buy decent powered air rifles with no idea on the rules you have to abide buy.

but then again look at the amount of mums/dad who buys kids soft air guns and they run around town with them.
they need to get out there and educate the dumb masses who have no idea the situations they can get into.

what pisses me off that people think guns are toys. i've killed possums with one shot from a subsonic .177 air rifle and its shoots clean through them.
they treat air rifles as toys, then they treat all guns as toys and they do stupid sh*t and get someone shot. just from simply lack of respect.

You're quiet right!!! The education just isn't there yet. So without a gun license for these high powered things, people will keep getting hurt/killed.
The powdered guns (like the one used on the two cops and one dog yesterday) will keep happening and you need a license for one of those. (wtf)
What is it going to take for change for the unlicensed weapons? I'm afraid, another accident or death will do it.

This was my Swiss made, "Revolution FX semi auto" .22 Air rifle.

No license needed to own one of these weapons.

[loppee]

Thats one mean looking slug gun ya have there.I got my first slug gun for my 10th brithday and got my firearms license as soon as I was old enough and still hold a firearms license.

[petefj40]

Thats one mean looking slug gun ya have there.I got my first slug gun for my 10th brithday and got my firearms license as soon as I was old enough and still hold a firearms license.

it's a mean as weapon. I tell ya!!!

Getting your firearms license was the best thing you could do.
It teaches you to respect it and take care of it. Just my thoughts...
A lot of parents that buy their kids air rifles, don't.

[kbjj]

I believe licenses should be held for high powered air guns, but I don't think it will stop;
-our police being shot by unlicensed crooks (air or powdered),
-idiot kids shooting others with "toy" guns

[tallsam66]

What ever is done with the laws the idiots & those that just dont care (gangs , drug dealers etc) will still use firearms or air rifles no matter what .
We have lots of laws about there use we just need to be tougher when people step out of line & break the law.If you do the crime you must do LOTS of time.
Laws only work if they are enforced !!!!

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

I think you should have a licence to own a high powered air riffle, that way as pete said it does teach you to respect it and understand the rules that go along with owning a riffle.
The cops are also starting to clamp down on paint ball guns also, now i know they dont use a solid slug but with the advanced guns from the states now for compition are lethal, ive got one myself and in the wrong hands boy they can do some damage.
Some young fullas got done recently in Auckland for doing a drive by with paint ball guns and injuring an old guy.

[surf_tomo]

And how many firearms are in circulation without people having licences? - my guess would be quite high. Maby the authorities should be concentrating on this more then the odd several thousand dollar air rifle out there. Anything can be a deadly weapon.

I KNOW that the buying/ selling of firearms without a licence is extreemly easy. Way around this? Licence every gun in the country.. not likely.

Trademe have tryed to tighten up the buying/selling online, and since this another 2 websites have started up especially for firearm auctions in NZ

What about the old saying guns dont kill people, people kill people? The line has to be drawn somewhere - does this mean slug guns, bows and slingshots as has been mentioned?

Just something else to think about.

[tweake]

I believe licenses should be held for high powered air guns, but I don't think it will stop;
-our police being shot by unlicensed crooks (air or powdered),
-idiot kids shooting others with "toy" guns

absolutely.
but it will change the public attitude that air guns are just toys.
make parents think more before giving them to kids to play with.

there plenty of illegally held firearms. one reason i prefer they don't make it to hard to get a licence. if it costs to much or to hard they still have the guns, they just don't bother with a licence, don't get taught anything and are unknown to police.

[Moriarty]

Fellers, you are all (mostly all) quite wrong.

No amount of legislation will remove guns from the hands of the ungodly.

Put yourself in the mindset of a crim for a minute.

Don Key sorry, JOHN Key changes the law forbidding air rifles.
so there you are, WHAT are you going to do? rush down to the police station and hand em in cos of THAT??? dont be silly, guys! of course you aint, remember, you ARE a crim!!!

as kids we made shanghais (slingshots) and used glass marbles as ammo cos the regular shape flew straighter and faster and anyway, they were my brothers, not mine, and I could kill seagulls at 50 meters easy. Yeah, kids do this shit, remember? Killed a rabbit once that way. If it had hit a human head in the temple, I guess that marble would killed him
the point is, do we license THEM too? how?

Kitchen knives, I love to cook, got some real GOOOD knives, sharp as a fart too. License THEM as well?

we have licensed BOTH cars and drivers, has THAT helped?

How many murders by car have there been?

If I could own a pistol, I would have one PDQ, love em. Love the contest of shooting. (competing agin myself)

Better to almost deregulate all firearms and then they would end up in the hands of licensed owners who, statistically rarely commit firearms based crimes.

How?

It should be easy for ME , to buy a firearm pistol rifle whatever, off YOU the crim, thereby taking it out of circulation amongst the criminal society.


Please dont think that I am actually saying that any of you ARE crims. (and I shouldnt have had to cover my arse saying THAT)

[rangimotors]

The guy down here that shot 2 cops and a dog had a .22 a shot gun and a .308.

No one in the house had a gun license so why would they care if they also had an air rifle and we told them it had to be licensed?

It's a hard one because it will restrict use for the normal users and do nothing for the crims out there.

How ever..
If it was law to have a license for an air rifle at least it would stop some theft of them as you would also have to lock them up.
It would also make the crime of carrying one illegally alot easier to punish through the courts.

[petefj40]

Maby the authorities should be concentrating on this more then the odd several thousand dollar air rifle out there. Anything can be a deadly weapon.

The line has to be drawn somewhere - does this mean slug guns, bows and slingshots as has been mentioned?

Just something else to think about.

Sure. My weapon pictured in this thread cost $2500 and there aren't many out there. But, this WAS the same type of weapon that killed that cop.

The semi auto .22 getting a slug moving at 950fps brings air guns to a new level. The law has to change. You can't get a sling shot or bow shooting at the same rate. But yep, they can kill to, but you don't hear of many accidents with them.

How's this air rifle for just $415. Gets a slug moving at OVER 1000fps.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting ... 985044.htm

[petefj40]

Fellers, you are all (mostly all) quite wrong.

No amount of legislation will remove guns from the hands of the ungodly.

Put yourself in the mindset of a crim for a minute.

Don Key sorry, JOHN Key changes the law forbidding air rifles.
so there you are, WHAT are you going to do? rush down to the police station and hand em in cos of THAT???

I think they should adopt the same law as the UK have had for years..
Put an, "energy rating" on an air rifle.
Rifles that move a slug over 500fps? (or what ever, 700fps) You need a firearms license to own one.
If you're caught using a high powered one without a license, you get fined.

Simple.

A bit like a motor bike. If you're a learner, you can only ride up to 250cc. Pitty they don't do that with cars. But that's another story..

[mudbugga]

Remember the dog micro chipping law......that's really stopped unlicenced dogs attacking young children -yeah right.

What will more knee jerk reaction gun regulations do? - other than restrict FAL holders from doing what they love.
The crims will get hold of whatever they want anyway.
More regular random checks need to be done on FAL holders and those that have their licence lapse or even had it removed for whatever reason.
It all comes down to more bobbies on the beat, and there simply isn't enough cops to do it at the moment - They're all out ticketing cars doing 4km/hr over the speed limit.

[Moriarty]

Pete, I see you point, you wish to try to stop deaths and killings by stopping the already responsible persons from owning the weapons in discussion.

How is this going to stop the crims from having them?
Where do you think the black market in pistols comes from? Thefts of licensed guns?

no, imports of illegal guns is where they come from.

You talk about energy ratings and then say that 500 FPS (or so) should be the criteria

Energy and velocity are NOT the same thing.
How much energy has my korando 2060kg truck got stored up at 30 mph?
thats 44 feet per second

energy in foot pounds is expressed as

Energy = weight * velocity^2 / 450450

http://www.firearmexpertwitness.com/customguns/calcnrg.html
even better...
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpenergykenetic/kenetic_energy_equation.php

weight of an arrow? (10gns per lb of pull)

suppose a bow draw of 50 lbs means an arrow of 500 gns and a velocity of 750 fps

energy is 624 ft lbs

now look at my truck...
applying the above formula we get

136,637.88285985 foot-pounds

so limiting firearms by either velocity or energy becomes an impossibility, yes? Or has the science got to you? LOL

[petefj40]

Remember the dog micro chipping law......that's really stopped unlicenced dogs attacking young children -yeah right.

But it still links the dog to it's owner. That's never been done before.
It's making dog owners more responsible, I believe. But it's not going to stop dog attacks, at all. Might reduce them though.

You'll never stop the crims. They'll keep killing no matter what the law is.
All you can do is make it harder for Joe Bloggs to gain a weapon I recon.

[Swamped]

t all comes down to more bobbies on the beat, and there simply isn't enough cops to do it at the moment - They're all out ticketing cars doing 4km/hr over the speed limit.

I've seen a poster in a gun shop to take a licence off a guy cos his status was revoked but he didn't hand the card in. Pretty slack really.

Legislation just protects criminals while they are doing their criminal thing.

I do kinda agree in making new rules regarding airguns as they are dangerous in the wrong hands (Never seen one shoot on its own, damn dangerous things ) but that would just make the use of them hidden rather than open. The average off the shelf break barrels just don't have the same range as a .22 however so fps at the barrel isn't really the whole story as the lighter projectiles can't do a lot at long range. The pre-charge guns are the ones to look at i guess as you CAN get heavy pils and they can push em at a reasonable clip.

In regards to that shooting I personally think those cops were boned from the start by legislation. I don't think guns need really to be carried at all times but perhaps in a car in a lock-box?? This combined with the desk jockeys pulling their heads out of their asses and ditching those ridiculous bushmasters and having em carry short shotguns in vehicles would most likely help. You do have to respect them for rocking around with just a pressurised pepper shaker and a stick but really people.

[petefj40]

Pete, I see you point, you wish to try to stop deaths and killings by stopping the already responsible persons from owning the weapons in discussion.

so limiting firearms by either velocity or energy becomes an impossibility, yes? Or has the science got to you? LOL

People that don't have a firearms license that own a high powered air rifle may be very responsible. I don't appreciate your dry sarcasm Bob.
But the plain fact of the matter is. They haven't gone through the same process that teaches a gun owner how to use and store one the way they tell you when you go for your firearms license.
Most people wouldn't even lock up their air rifle.

The energy rating law is a "fact" in the UK. And it works fine.

It's just a matter of time before they change the law. Mark my words.

[mudbugga]

But it still links the dog to it's owner. That's never been done before.
It's making dog owners more responsible, I believe. But it's not going to stop dog attacks, at all. Might reduce them though.

You'll never stop the crims. They'll keep killing no matter what the law is.
All you can do is make it harder for Joe Bloggs to gain a weapon I recon.

My opinion on that issue is -those dogs that attack aren't registered, aren't micro chipped and their owners certainly aren't doing anything about being responsible. That law hasn't changed anything apart from putting more costs/burdens onto the responsible dog owner.
The same will happen with firearms. The responsible FAL holder will get to cover all costs and will suffer while the crims carry on as usual getting off scott free or at the most smacked with a wet bus ticket.

[petefj40]

But it still links the dog to it's owner. That's never been done before.
It's making dog owners more responsible, I believe. But it's not going to stop dog attacks, at all. Might reduce them though.

You'll never stop the crims. They'll keep killing no matter what the law is.
All you can do is make it harder for Joe Bloggs to gain a weapon I recon.

My opinion on that issue is -those dogs that attack aren't registered, aren't micro chipped and their owners certainly aren't doing anything about being responsible. That law hasn't changed anything apart from putting more costs/burdens onto the responsible dog owner.

The micro chipping hasn't been around long.
A dog will only live 10+ years. Give it 10 years and ALL dogs will be micro chipped.

[Swamped]

The energy rating law is a "fact" in the UK. And it works fine.

It's just a matter of time before they change the law. Mark my words.

Yes energy rating is good but nowhere on the box says dick about an energy rating. They are so variable between models so they would need to be tested and standardised. It would be easier just to go all 1000fps rifles wouldn't it (which our government is stupid enough to do)

And sure things will change. They always do. It won't make cops, me or my friends any safer. Maybe make it tougher to acquire but thats it. If they need to be licenced i think it should be a separate class which is easier to obtain so good ordinary people can get them easily. I've sold a lot to old folks that just want to deal to starlings etc etc. Be ratshit if they have to jump through hoops for it.

Pest control companies will love a restriction in airguns.

[petefj40]

The energy rating law is a "fact" in the UK. And it works fine.

It's just a matter of time before they change the law. Mark my words.

Yes energy rating is good but nowhere on the box says dick about an energy rating. They are so variable between models so they would need to be tested and standardised. It would be easier just to go all 1000fps rifles wouldn't it (which our government is stupid enough to do)

And sure things will change. They always do. It won't make cops, me or my friends any safer. Maybe make it tougher to acquire but thats it. If they need to be licenced i think it should be a separate class which is easier to obtain so good ordinary people can get them easily. I've sold a lot to old folks that just want to deal to starlings etc etc. Be ratshit if they have to jump through hoops for it.

Pest control companies will love a restriction in airguns.

We're along way from making public/cops safer. But you have to start somewhere yeah?
Looking at what they're doing around the rest of the world is a good gauge at what's in our future here in little old NZ.
Just my thoughts...
Surest thing in the world is, "change".

[Moriarty]

But it still links the dog to it's owner. That's never been done before.
It's making dog owners more responsible, I believe. But it's not going to stop dog attacks, at all. Might reduce them though.

You'll never stop the crims. They'll keep killing no matter what the law is.
All you can do is make it harder for Joe Bloggs to gain a weapon I recon.

My opinion on that issue is -those dogs that attack aren't registered, aren't micro chipped and their owners certainly aren't doing anything about being responsible. That law hasn't changed anything apart from putting more costs/burdens onto the responsible dog owner.

The micro chipping hasn't been around long.
A dog will only live 10+ years. Give it 10 years and ALL dogs will be micro chipped.

Sorry about the gentle sarcasm, Pete.

What makes you think that the badboy owners are going to get their dogs chipped once the current crop of "good" dogs are dead?? All it does is TAX them what are responsible.

Do YOU own a firearm? not a slug gun,m but one that uses FIRE? If so, how long have you had a license?
I have had MINE for 46 years now, the first one was FREE and stayed that way through several replacements.

THEN they brought out a "lifetime" license and that cost money.

Followed by one good for ten years to replace the lifetime one.

This cost MORE money.

Starting to look more like a fkn TAX than a way of reducing gun related crime.


BUT.....what has THAT done to reduce armed crime? gun related deaths?

Fukall, and moreover, Pete, you KNOW this.