media picking on 4wds again

[skid]

here is another classic example of how the media are so good at making 4wds seem like the worst vehicle on the road. note how times they use the word 4wd, seems overkill to me

A 12-year-old boy was seriously injured when he was hit by a 4WD after getting off a school bus this afternoon.

Nelson Bays area commander Inspector Brian McGurk said the bus had stopped by Corder Park, on Atawhai Crescent, to let children off about 3.10pm.

The boy ran on to the road in front of the bus while it was still parked and was hit by an Izusu Bighorn 4WD as it passed the bus.

The boy was taken to Nelson hospital with what were believed to be serious injuries.

"Both the driver of the Izusu Bighorn 4WD vehicle and school bus were breath tested even though alcohol was not suspected and was not a factor in the incident," Mr McGurk said.

"Police are unable to comment on the speed of the Izusu Bighorn 4WD vehicle because inquiries into the circumstances of the incident are continuing."

The speed limit for passing a stationary school bus is 20kmh.

The 4WD was seized for inspection, and a scene examination would be conducted.

[Jerry]

The article could have mentioned van, truck etc ... It reads factually not anti 4wd to me

[pruggerdore]

feeling a bit sensitive there skid. How many people would know a bighorn was a 4wd if they didnt state it. Think the driver looks bad not the 4wd. dont worry tho when they finish there enquiries they will mention that the injuries would of been less if the vehicle had been a sedan. which unfortunatly is also propably a fact.
Another fact is "shit happens"

Sad reality is how many people slow down to 20km to pass a stationary school bus.
Slow down be cautious yes but 20km.

[wopass]

feeling a bit sensitive there skid. How many people would know a bighorn was a 4wd if they didnt state it. Think the driver looks bad not the 4wd. dont worry tho when they finish there enquiries they will mention that the injuries would of been less if the vehicle had been a sedan. which unfortunatly is also propably a fact.
Another fact is "shit happens"

Sad reality is how many people slow down to 20km to pass a stationary school bus.
Slow down be cautious yes but 20km.

the reason the law states 20kph is because school busses carry children...and children do silly things like run out from infront of a bus, if your only doing 20 your more likely going to be able to stop and not even hit the kid.

just remember that next time your doing 50 past a school bus, and the parents of the child that you run over and the things they will be thinking of you because you broke the law and killed thier child...

[Furgus]

Mind you, it makes you a little annoyed when you slow down to 20kph to pass & the bloody bus pulls out as your passing!!!!!

NOT IMPRESSED

[gimmemud]

feeling a bit sensitive there skid. How many people would know a bighorn was a 4wd if they didnt state it. Think the driver looks bad not the 4wd. dont worry tho when they finish there enquiries they will mention that the injuries would of been less if the vehicle had been a sedan. which unfortunatly is also propably a fact.
Another fact is "shit happens"

Sad reality is how many people slow down to 20km to pass a stationary school bus.
Slow down be cautious yes but 20km.

the reason the law states 20kph is because school busses carry children...and children do silly things like run out from infront of a bus, if your only doing 20 your more likely going to be able to stop and not even hit the kid.

just remember that next time your doing 50 past a school bus, and the parents of the child that you run over and the things they will be thinking of you because you broke the law and killed thier child...

What was the driver of the bus doing at the time?? I remember when I was in school you were always taught to walk to back of the bus to cross the road so cars could see you coming. Would have thought the driver may have told the kid to turn around and go behind it... Especially if he saw a car coming up. I know my old bus driver did to a couple of kids, although possibly just because it held him up.
Didn't know until now about the 20km/h rule, over here there is a 40 speed sign on the back of all buses and when it's on school duties and stops, lights flash around the sign to alert you. Pretty good idea IMO.

[Taz]

What was the driver of the bus doing at the time?? I remember when I was in school you were always taught to walk to back of the bus to cross the road so cars could see you coming. Would have thought the driver may have told the kid to turn around and go behind it... Especially if he saw a car coming up. I know my old bus driver did to a couple of kids, although possibly just because it held him up.
Didn't know until now about the 20km/h rule, over here there is a 40 speed sign on the back of all buses and when it's on school duties and stops, lights flash around the sign to alert you. Pretty good idea IMO.

Walking out from behind a bus is just as bad as the front on narrow roads. 6 year old on my bus back in the day had this happen to him but wasn't lucky enough to live like the one above. Was one of the dudes where I was boarding that hit him too, who also knew him from when he used to catch that bus, just to make matters worse.

[petefj40]

I'd assume the bus was in a 50k area?
Slowing down while passing a bus with school kids on board might be a hassle. But wopass is right. Even if you don't slow down to 20k. Just slow down, at least.

The last time i nearly ran a child over was in a car park a few months back. I still remember it like yesterday. The look on both the Mums face and kids face etched in my brain. And i was only going running speed, if that!

Kids do stupid things. They can't judge a speeding car like we adults can.

It could of been a car not a 4X4 skid. Still would of done the same damage I recon.

[DaveM]

If 4wds were being picked on, they would point out that the height of the 4wd is more likely to cause more damage to a child as the impact area would be a lot higher than on a car

[ActyonMan]

Kids and any vehicle can be trouble.

About 6 weeks ago I was taking my son to football. As we were looking for a carpark on the street next to the playing fields I was doing about 30 kmh in a 50 kmh zone when a 4WD pulled up just ahead of me on the other side of the road.

A 9 year old boy leaped out of the RH rear door and attempted to run straight accross the road. I saw him coming and was stopped by the time he ran smack in to my drivers door. He rebounded off my vehicle and fell flat on this back in middle of the road.

1st thing his mother heard was the impact, then saw her son flat on his back in the middle road. I u-turned to park behind her to ensure the boy was okay - which he was. No need to give the mother a (verbal) serve as she was as shocked as the son. Fortunately shock was the only injury to anyone.

I've never, ever, let my son out the roadside door of any vehicle I'm driving. He also knows to stop at the edge of the vehicle and look before crossing the road.

It doesn't have to be a bus that kids run out from.


ActyonMan

[mazdamike]

i read somewhere that the driver was an off duty police officer talking on a cell phone as he drove past the bus. I think it was on yahoo news a few days days back but dont hold me too it.

[DaveM]

i read somewhere that the driver was an off duty police officer talking on a cell phone as he drove past the bus. I think it was on yahoo news a few days days back but dont hold me too it.

There were reports that was the case, but not as yet confirmed AFAIK

[Weasel]

As meaningful as all this debate is, I think the hard questions need to be asked...who spelt Izusu???

Whoever wrote that piece could consider other 4wd brands that can kill people, like yotato, sitbumishi and drof for example.

[DKZ]

It is quite unfortunate that such a thing happened.. But I can imagine the field day for the media if it was a young guy driving a high-performance Japanese sports car that hit the kid..

I've always been taught to be extra vigilant when crossing roads from when I was a wee lad. Certainly paid off so far but there have been a few close calls.

[SP450andLE]

Sorry to be digging this up again, but I agree with Skid. Would they honestly repeat it if it was a "Toyota Levin sedan"? I cannot see that happening with a Toyota Levin sedan. Even if the child was hit by a Toyota Levin sedan.

Also, does anyone teach the kids not to run in front of a bus?! I doubt I would ever have done that, as I was told, rather brutally, that it would NOT end well.

Finally, I doubt, if you were passing a bus and a child and you were close enough to hit them (kids usually run reasonably quick over roads so if you were back a bit you would have time to stop) it probably wont matter what speed you were doing, it would still do damage.

Just my ten cents worth

[sibainmud]

Yeah, lets dredge this one up.
I live on a back street that has a primary school on it.
If the law states we must pass a school bus at 20km, then why do the mums do break neck speeds up my street between 3:05 and 3:15 with kids walking up the footpath
I do slow down to pass a bus displaying a SCHOOL sign.
I have been backing a trailer in my drive just after 3, and have had mums in big 60k+ suv's mount the verge and sidewalk to get around me and I can back a trailer too, so won't hold them up long. The media just love exploiting these freak accidents
So many kids are picked up from school now days, that despite being at least 500m away from the school, the mums/dads still que and park up the road on both sides causing a dangerous situation and blocking access to residents driveways.
I think some education and enforcement are in order

Any car can be a weapon

[Landynut]

I think we have got waaaaaaaaay too many people on our roads, most of probably reside in cities, in control of vehicles upwards of 1.5 tons driving them like sports cars !
If I had a buck for every time I got passed while doing 105km/hr by a surf/pajero/patrol/bighorn doing in excess of 120km/hr+!! usually only to end up stuck behind their fat slow ass going up a hill
not to mention tailgating and cornering like crazy because it has power steering so the driver really has no idea whats going on with the inertia/physics, if it didnt have power steering they would FEEL physics fighting against them! people in big, high, heavy 4x4's going way too fast, not allowing enough room to stop and generally just driving them like they would a sedan... it defies the laws of phsyics for a big, high vehicle to stop in the same distance as a sedan.

Perhaps its education thats needed, perhaps alot of people are just buying 4x4's for the wrong reasons.....

[SP450andLE]

I agree. I think also all the new technology such as traction control is stuffing everyone up. They learn to drive a car which pulls itself round corners with ease and gets them out of sticky situations in corners.

Two bad things with this...

1: If they do crash, they are going so much faster that the damage is so much worse than it would be if they had crashed in a car without traction control.

And...

2: They jump into a car without traction control, and they are, quite simply, farked.

Also, so many people grow up learning to drive on tar-seal roads, so when their car comes to slide on the road, they often don't have a hope in hell of knowing what to do to control the slide. On come the brakes and the swinging on the wheel, just making a crash even more likely.Then you get people like me and Lincoln who grew up on a gravel road and learnt how a car slides, and what to do.

I definitely think new Zealand should face the facts and introduce a free, and compulsory driving course that teaches new drivers the limits of what any car can do, and how to counter any difficulties eg sliding.

Then the road toll etc will go down quite a bit.

And there's no point in raising the driving age more and more, as it isn't so much the age affecting the driving, more the lack of experience. So if the age is raised we will just have the same crashes caused by inexperience, just at a higher age then previously.

That's my rant for the night

[Landynut]

yeah i grew up thrashing cheap cars on gravel, mostly rolling them for fun or just generally destroying them (handbrake + swing the wheel and go sideways into a tree just to see what it feels like...) time trials around the gravel circuit... who cares its a $50 car when you know where the equilibrium lies you have more chance of avoiding it...

maybe cars that are decommissioned from road-use but are still driveable should go to a worthy cause like educating new drivers on closed circuits under controlled conditions?
would cost next to nothing to run, b.y.o. petrol

[Swamped]

surf/pajero/patrol/bighorn doing in excess of 120km/hr+!!

Fark I wish

[Landynut]

surf/pajero/patrol/bighorn doing in excess of 120km/hr+!!

Fark I wish

haha yea the diesels are a bit chuggy.. the ol 4.5 or 4.2 petrol ones haul ass tho.... i've taken a 2006 hilux 3.0 diesel turb upto 140km/hr on gravel... would make mean rally trucks actually

[DaveM]

And then you get the slow old farks that drive crummydores or fords and hit the brakes every corner, yet put their foot down on every straight so you can't pass.......

Be interested to see statistics on how many 4wd accidents are blamed on roll overs/loss of control solely because of the fact they have a higher centre of gravity and would not have happened had the person been driving a car.

Of course, theres probably quite a few people out there only alive because they were in a 4wd when they had their accident

[Landynut]

And then you get the slow old farks that drive crummydores or fords and hit the brakes every corner, yet put their foot down on every straight so you can't pass.......

Be interested to see statistics on how many 4wd accidents are blamed on roll overs/loss of control solely because of the fact they have a higher centre of gravity and would not have happened had the person been driving a car.

Of course, theres probably quite a few people out there only alive because they were in a 4wd when they had their accident

people that do 70km/hr when you cant pass and then 110km/hr when you can piss me off
I actually got a ticket from a cop who did just that not long ago.... 80-85km/hr on the open road with double yellow lines, on straights where you could safely do 100km/hr, then at the passing lane he speeds up AFTER i pull out and begin passing him (i thought he was on the phone or something) he matches my speed and pushes it to 106km/hr, i only "Just" manage to crawl past him by the end of the passing lane, then pulls me over and gives me a ticket.............

but yeah my point was the people driving 4x4s that arent "aware" of the higher centre of gravity, extra weight and less stable suspension..... if you know your vehicles limits you drive within them, if you dont know/understand the limits, its easy to fall outside them taking the kids to school while putting makeup on in the rear view mirror......

being safer in a 4x4 is debatable, everyone thinks they are safer but alot of studies have shown injury to be just as likely as any other car.... the problem is, in an impact whether it be side on, front on, rear end - a 4x4 is FAR more likely to seriously injure occupants of the other car, being higher and heavier, usually with 2" pipe protrusions like bullbars etc

[Swamped]

NZer's just can't drive and its getting worse I'm sure. Everyone is scared to do 100 on anything but a passing lane where they do 120+ so people still can't pass. And they are dead set on getting to the front of a column of traffic regardless of the cost. They also expect us to let them in when they can't complete a pass

In the states, at least where my family is from, your not allowed to pass a school bus that is parked letting kids on/off.

4x4s are safer so long as you don't hit another 4x4/ truck or roll it it seems.

If you see someone doing dumb shit in a car and decide to report it you HAVE to get a drivers description otherwise they can't do sfa.

[Moriarty]

Kids are supposed to walk to the rear of the bass to cross the road so the DRIVER of the bus doesn't run over the little sods when he pulls out to drive on. I woulda thought that THAT was obvious to you guys.

My BIG HEAVY 4wd weighs exactly the same as my mid sized touring car did, a 1992 Mitsi Diamante 30RS. because its BIG (taller) does this somehow magically make it harder to stop? makes its cornering ability worse, yes. but straight-line braking is damn near as good, Craig's is better, because its got ABS whereas the Mitsi and my POS havent.

lastly, you guys have forgotten yet AGAIN what the prime directive of ALL media is haven't you?

FUKKIN RATINGS!!!

Never let the truth or moderate language get in the way of a (good) story or us selling more papers, tv time et al.

[Landynut]

I completely agree with you, but I'm not comparing you with the average townie who has absolutely no clue whatsoever what a 4wd is and is not capable of ...there is probably not a single person on this forum that fits into that category...
but yes because the suspension has far more travel, makes it harder to stop safely....
+ the high centre of gravity = one slight mistake on the steering wheel while braking at speed is going to flip you over or at least lose control....

in other words - if you actually USE your 4x4 for off-roading (this does not include driving down the beach which my mazda bongo van can do . .) then you are fully aware of the vehicles limits and are able to control it effectively because you know what will happen under extreme circumstances....

if you dont on the other hand ..........

[T-Boon]

I think all people should learn to drift !

Problem Solved

[Landynut]

I think all people should learn to drift !

Problem Solved

if you learned to drive on loose metal roads, whether you know it or not you already know how to drift

[lincooln]

I think all people should learn to drift !

Problem Solved

if you learned to drive on loose metal roads, whether you know it or not you already know how to drift

indeed. Like when you go around the outside of a Silvia thinking he is all quick and I am in my Vitara. Funny to see there faces. Gravel is so much fun.

I know thats not safe but too bad.

but I always slow down around school buses and so on and I think that the 40km/h speed limits were great ideas, just need more cops to impose the rules again. oh and there should be yellow lines 100m either side of each school. lets parents walk with their kids back to the car.

[STIC]

Funny, just read through this and i notice no one made much of an attempt to point out that the sole person at fault here was the Idiot who ran into the street!

I live in (well, just outside, now) Palmy; just moved back after 4 years in Auckland, and i'm amazed at just how much pedestrian traffic has invaded the roads down here.

I regularly come close to running over pedestrians, almost on a daily basis, because they are so confident everyone is looking out for them, they just step into the street anywhere...

If anyone needs education these days, it's the soft little breakable pedestrian who thinks roads were built to walk on!

oh, don't you just love the councils who think they are keeping people safe by building fake crossings every 10 meters...

I know it's not a crossing, it's a road so i keep driving at 50kph...Mr & Mrs Dumbass think it's a crossing and step out in front of my truck expecting that i'll be stopping...Guess who gets hurt!