Hijack during off roading! need help

[zero4]

Hi,everyone

My mate and I went to Thompson track Tauranga side on 02/01/2011.

We came from the Te Aroha side then passed 2/3 track lots bogs rocks and stuck around the 40 mins walk to carpark sign.

I have a LC70 with winch and my mate have a 120 prado without too much mods,so most time I do pull him out from most bogs.

We have stuck there about 1 night then we ask for help because my winch cable broken off.


Two of local club guys came with 2 buggies for help and they ask $400 for rescue each truck,we agreed that,but the first attempt
was failed.

Then they said the recovery would cost around $1k and more each truck,we agreed that and bring some 10000kg straps and winch rope on 6th.



Finally our trucks got recovery on 7th and they ask $8000 for recovery!!!



I appreciate all the works they have done for us,but the price.....


I lived in Auckland and pull out lots trucks from Muriwai beach and I have never ask one buck for it.


What do you think about my story?


Below is where I got stuck and we have got out theses bogs on 6th:

[zero4]

Here is the email from the local 4x4 club leader:

Hi James & Jay,

Let's start with 7 guys @ say $50 per hour for 10 1/2 hours. Everyone who helped on the day, closed their business's for the day to do the recovery.

We needed 4 trucks to pull your heavy vehicles all the way out to the end of the track. Should there be a hourly charge for the vehicles fuel & wear & tear, not counting damage?

On the way we broke 8 straps due to the weight of your trucks & the depth of the bogs that we had to go through on the way back to the car park.

Pulling the 70 through I got stuck in a bog with the mud & water over my bonnet & that killer my starter motor. Also as you know I broke my plasma rope & fried my alternator on the first attempt to recover you.

We broke a steel PTO winch cable on the FJ40 which did a lot of the winching through the triple purchase pulley blocks.

The third truck killed his clutch helping to tow the Prado out.

The last trucks winch was killed whilst pulling your trucks out of a bog. We needed all three winches attached to get it out.

Labour $3675
Straps $720
Starter $450 not including labour to fit
Alternator $450 I fitted this myself
Plasma $400?
Cable $300?
Clutch $600 not including labour to fit
Winch $800? is the cheapest you can buy. This truck also did a couple of fan belts & an idler pulley but he said that was his expense, as they could be sourced 2nd hand.
Fuel etc $400 this includes the vehicles to tow the bush trucks

Total almost $8000....


In total I have spent about four days trying to, fixing, checking & finally recovering your vehicles.

Lets consider your alternative? Fact: we know of a patrol recovered backwards (on his way up to long bog) from the bog closest to the car park (the very steep one) which was charged $8500+GST for a digger to walk in (say 5-600m) & extract him back up that small climb. What would it cost to go all the way to long bog & pull your trucks all the way out from there. Perhaps $20k+ easily..

I tried my hardest to first of all do it myself, with the help of one other. I totally over estimated the magnitude of your predicament & had to call in some experts to help out.

I have also tried my hardest to keep you informed of how hard this would be & that it will be a reasonable expense for your mistake & suggested that you contact your insurance companies to help you with this expense.

We are not holding you to a ransom to get your vehicles back, but feel it only fair that you remunerate us for the extremely hard work that we have done to recover your vehicles safely off Thompsons Track.

I took this job on in good faith that there would be no issue with payment once the job had been completed, I only hope that this is still the case.

We were totally amazed to find the vehicle still intact & not vandalized or stripped the day we walked up, if we had not helped would this be the case??

I would like to hear what you think, but please do not try to negotiate with us as that would be an insult to the huge efforts we have put in to recover your vehicles.

[sibainmud]

[wopass]

i would have done it for half that...

[Sketchy_Racer]

How much was your truck worth? may have been cheaper to rip all the bits you could off and take em out and buy a new truck!

8g and that much damage to gear sounds like munters trying to wreck shit!

[bobrocket]

That's a hard one, I think most people would be inclined to help but yeah, how much is to much, It sounds like they havn't really taken a practical approach to the recovery (financially) and simply called in reinforcements as they see fit, club training maybe with a cash spinoff?
But in saying that, what is their time worth?, were they clear in what they were charging you? how much pressure did you put on them to recover your truck?

Do they still have your truck? was it not drivable?

[kbushnz]

Thanks for letting us know the perils of doing what is known as a Hard Yakka Track with under prepared vehicles.
You are lucky no one came along and just pulled your trucks off the track and down into the bush.
The only option is to contact your insurance companies.
I am sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but .....

So the question is "What help do you need" from the forum...
Sounds to me you need to negotiate with your rescuers and pay up.

Calvin

[vvega]

Here is the email from the local 4x4 club leader:

Hi James & Jay,

Let's start with 7 guys @ say $50 per hour for 10 1/2 hours. Everyone who helped on the day, closed their business's for the day to do the recovery.

We needed 4 trucks to pull your heavy vehicles all the way out to the end of the track. Should there be a hourly charge for the vehicles fuel & wear & tear, not counting damage?

On the way we broke 8 straps due to the weight of your trucks & the depth of the bogs that we had to go through on the way back to the car park.

Pulling the 70 through I got stuck in a bog with the mud & water over my bonnet & that killer my starter motor. Also as you know I broke my plasma rope & fried my alternator on the first attempt to recover you.

We broke a steel PTO winch cable on the FJ40 which did a lot of the winching through the triple purchase pulley blocks.

The third truck killed his clutch helping to tow the Prado out.

The last trucks winch was killed whilst pulling your trucks out of a bog. We needed all three winches attached to get it out.

Labour $3675
Straps $720
Starter $450 not including labour to fit
Alternator $450 I fitted this myself
Plasma $400?
Cable $300?
Clutch $600 not including labour to fit
Winch $800? is the cheapest you can buy. This truck also did a couple of fan belts & an idler pulley but he said that was his expense, as they could be sourced 2nd hand.
Fuel etc $400 this includes the vehicles to tow the bush trucks

Total almost $8000....


In total I have spent about four days trying to, fixing, checking & finally recovering your vehicles.

Lets consider your alternative? Fact: we know of a patrol recovered backwards (on his way up to long bog) from the bog closest to the car park (the very steep one) which was charged $8500+GST for a digger to walk in (say 5-600m) & extract him back up that small climb. What would it cost to go all the way to long bog & pull your trucks all the way out from there. Perhaps $20k+ easily..

I tried my hardest to first of all do it myself, with the help of one other. I totally over estimated the magnitude of your predicament & had to call in some experts to help out.

I have also tried my hardest to keep you informed of how hard this would be & that it will be a reasonable expense for your mistake & suggested that you contact your insurance companies to help you with this expense.

We are not holding you to a ransom to get your vehicles back, but feel it only fair that you remunerate us for the extremely hard work that we have done to recover your vehicles safely off Thompsons Track.

I took this job on in good faith that there would be no issue with payment once the job had been completed, I only hope that this is still the case.

We were totally amazed to find the vehicle still intact & not vandalized or stripped the day we walked up, if we had not helped would this be the case??

I would like to hear what you think, but please do not try to negotiate with us as that would be an insult to the huge efforts we have put in to recover your vehicles.

if your going to help someone to recover a truck then make sure you have a tool capable of such a thing.
its quite obvious they didnt or dont
8000 is rediculious and quite frankly you need to take this to small claims

things like .. i broke my plasma rope ... well dont that mean that You ethier pulled outside its safe wieght or it was portly maintained ...

another example .....
if a tow truck company picked up you vehicile then engine blew up on the way to dropping the vehical off .. do you then have to pay to have the engine rebuilt .. or the starter motor ??

[vvega]

i would have done it for half that...

pritty sure you woudlnt have done 4000 dollars worth of dammage to your truck to do it ethier

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

First of all if you haven't got well equipped trucks why were you even in there? and this could be an expensive lesson for you.

But secondly the guys who recovered your trucks obviously didn't really know what they were doing, 8 straps broken, 1 plasma, one cable and winch! what the hell were they doing to break all that stuff?

Thirdly sounds to me like the trucks/gear were poorly maintained to have so much stuff break.

Are they holding your trucks till the amounts payed?

[muddyhilux]

id have to agree with vvega and others,it defiantly sounds like these guys weren't actually properly equipped,allot of that "damage" was due to operator error, I sure as hell know how to drive my truck without burning out the clutch as do most

[mylux]

Here is the email from the local 4x4 club leader:

Lets consider your alternative? Fact: we know of a patrol recovered backwards (on his way up to long bog) from the bog closest to the car park (the very steep one) which was charged $8500+GST for a digger to walk in (say 5-600m) & extract him back up that small climb. What would it cost to go all the way to long bog & pull your trucks all the way out from there. Perhaps $20k+ easily..

.

Far out sounds like B/S to me.
Hourly charge out on 12 tonne digger is around $100 per hour plus transport at say $200 each way.
81 hours on a digger to get a truck out. cough; Bullshit !!
And who cares if they break their trucks trying to get you out it's not you fault they went into the JOB under prepared.
I highlight JOB because that is what it is to them and they have entered into a contract by agreeing to recover your truck for a fixed price that you agreed upon.
Any variations to this price must be discussed with you before more work is undertaken.
My view is that if what you say is how it happened pay them the grand and put in writing the reasons you will not pay the rest, if they wish to take it further then they will have to lodge with Disputes Tribunal.
Richard.

[Fakey]

Subscribed..this should be interesting

My 2c, Why were you an you mate with what you say are pretty much std soccer mom shopping trolleys goin into such a place?

Fair call on asking for some reimbursment to tow your dumbass out but I have to agree what they are asking for is pretty extreme

Were your trucks dead weight when being towed out an are they still holding your trucks?

[vvega]

for 8 grand .. you could have had a chinnok come in and air lift you out !!! .. personally im waiting for pete and ben to say there piece .. they know shitpiles about doing this sort of crap

[monstr]

To Give you an Example of cost Myself and 2 other trucks drove down from Auckland to Katikati ,Recovered an 80series(dead) and a s/wb prado that was still running but had a broken front diff both were stuck in the long bog ,towed and winched both back to katikati the recovery took just over 7 hours WE BROKE NOTHING charged them $1200 and had a grat time doing it

..Steve

One must also ask what the f#ck were they thinking .taking in a couple of buggies to do a rescue in there? talk about taking a knife to a gun fight.

[mylux]

Here is the email from the local 4x4 club leader:

Hi James & Jay,

Let's start with 7 guys @ say $50 per hour for 10 1/2 hours. Everyone who helped on the day, closed their business's for the day to do the recovery.

Who cares that they CHOOSE to close their business's for the day.
I say it's time to name and shame these cowboys.

[4WDbits]

Whether or not the guys should have been in there is another discussion.

Charging someone for a broken alternator and starter because recovering their truck broke it is absolute crap.
Broken recovery gear just shows it was either in poor condition or was misused, again charging for this is just crap.

The local clubs and volunteers should be compensated for recoveries and fully cover the cost of the recovery. Charging for breakages to gear that must have been nearly dead or misused is daylight robery.

Those recovery guys saw easy marks and milked it for all they could get.

If they'd been recovering someone like monstr the cost would have been a different story, something reasonable because he wouldn't stand for this sort of crap.

If the recovery guys have any care for the local club reputation, not to mention the entire 4WD community reputation, they'll refund over 80% of that 8k.

If nothing happens make a compaint to the police about extortion, because thats what it is.

[monstr]

It may be the (pot calling the kettle black) in my case but to charge out at an hourly rate and that much $8000 wouldnt you have to be a registered towing and salvage co LTSA registered .ask for a written invoice with gst no etc to take to your insurance co

[Mudde1]

If these guys are doing this as a business they need to make sure that they are capable of pricing the job accurately and then doing the job, or If these were volunteers trying to help out someone who was in trouble, they cant be expected be paid for their time. However the other side is that if you take your vehicle into an area that you are not capable of getting out of, you must expect to pay for some one else to do it.
Sounds like you need to have someone mediate in this. My suggestion is that you claim the costs on your insurance, and let the insurance company deal with it, after all that’s what you pay them to do. Insurance companies will happily pay fair and reasonable costs.

[Jerry]

I wouldn't call myself a recovery expert but even I know its time to get out the winch after the 1st or 2nd strap breaks, were they using extra pulley blocks to lighten the load on the winch or even digging part of the truck(s) out to help?

Sure the people recovering you need to be compensated but 8k sounds like they are trying to rip you off, They should have called in suitable vehicles and experienced recovery people in the club first (it sounds like they made a dogs breakfast of the recovery)

Which club was it and who were they?

[Crash bandicoot]

for 8 grand you could have hired a f*cking 20 tonne excavator and that includes its transport to the site and back.

or 8 grand could have got you the biggest winch on the market

or you could have rang the local logging contractor and paid them to take a skidder up there for less then 8000.

offered it to them under the table and i can garrantee you they would have said yes.

I think you will find once word gets out they wont be rung up again to ask for help in a recovery.

even when i got my holden rodeo stuck in the rangitikie river it only cost 180 dollars for a professional Tow with a 12000 pound pto winch to haul me out.

[Kimbo]

There are lessions to be learnt here.
Dont go to places with underprepared vehicles.
Join a 4WD club.
Our club memebers go at the drop of a hat to recover our members from anywhere and get them and their trucks home as we all know it might be our truck that needs recoverying next time. As a club we also do enough bush runs that most people dont feel the need to do runs on their own and risk situations like this. There are costs associated with recovering a stuck or broken truck and as such we are prepared to pay a fair and reasonable cost for this. In our club the biggest cost would be the shit thrown at you at our club meetings for doing something stupid.
Getting stuck is not stupid
Going somewhere ill prepared is stupid
We tend not to use snatch straps but use large ropes and I have never seen one of our ropes break in any recovery but these ropes cost 3x as much as a snatch strap so be preapred to pay a recovery cost as at some stage we will need to replace our ropes.
Recovery costs need to be sorted out first and breakages dont come into costing.
I would not be paying this bill but I would pay a fair and reasonable cost for the recovery.

[GotFlex]

are the guys who pulled you out holding your trucks to ransom?

id go to the police

[Ralfie]

Here is the email from the local 4x4 club leader:

Hi James & Jay,

Let's start with 7 guys @ say $50 per hour for 10 1/2 hours. Everyone who helped on the day, closed their business's for the day to do the recovery.

We needed 4 trucks to pull your heavy vehicles all the way out to the end of the track. Should there be a hourly charge for the vehicles fuel & wear & tear, not counting damage?

On the way we broke 8 straps due to the weight of your trucks & the depth of the bogs that we had to go through on the way back to the car park.

Pulling the 70 through I got stuck in a bog with the mud & water over my bonnet & that killer my starter motor. Also as you know I broke my plasma rope & fried my alternator on the first attempt to recover you.

We broke a steel PTO winch cable on the FJ40 which did a lot of the winching through the triple purchase pulley blocks.

The third truck killed his clutch helping to tow the Prado out.

The last trucks winch was killed whilst pulling your trucks out of a bog. We needed all three winches attached to get it out.

Labour $3675
Straps $720
Starter $450 not including labour to fit
Alternator $450 I fitted this myself
Plasma $400?
Cable $300?
Clutch $600 not including labour to fit
Winch $800? is the cheapest you can buy. This truck also did a couple of fan belts & an idler pulley but he said that was his expense, as they could be sourced 2nd hand.
Fuel etc $400 this includes the vehicles to tow the bush trucks

Total almost $8000....


In total I have spent about four days trying to, fixing, checking & finally recovering your vehicles.

Lets consider your alternative? Fact: we know of a patrol recovered backwards (on his way up to long bog) from the bog closest to the car park (the very steep one) which was charged $8500+GST for a digger to walk in (say 5-600m) & extract him back up that small climb. What would it cost to go all the way to long bog & pull your trucks all the way out from there. Perhaps $20k+ easily..

I tried my hardest to first of all do it myself, with the help of one other. I totally over estimated the magnitude of your predicament & had to call in some experts to help out.

I have also tried my hardest to keep you informed of how hard this would be & that it will be a reasonable expense for your mistake & suggested that you contact your insurance companies to help you with this expense.

We are not holding you to a ransom to get your vehicles back, but feel it only fair that you remunerate us for the extremely hard work that we have done to recover your vehicles safely off Thompsons Track.

I took this job on in good faith that there would be no issue with payment once the job had been completed, I only hope that this is still the case.

We were totally amazed to find the vehicle still intact & not vandalized or stripped the day we walked up, if we had not helped would this be the case??

I would like to hear what you think, but please do not try to negotiate with us as that would be an insult to the huge efforts we have put in to recover your vehicles.

Certainly sounds like a hijacking. The comment "but please do not try to negotiate with us as that would be an insult to the huge efforts we have put in" seems to show they are holding out for total of $7,300 (total of costs listed).

If this is the BOP club, who normally do rescues and recoveries in Thompson's I would be very disappointed at their demands.

How the situation came about is irrevelant to the recovery attempts. It seems as though the guys contracted to recover the two stuck vehicles went in under prepared with lightweight poorly maintained vehicles and equipment that was past its best.

By the time they went back for a second attempt with more vehicles at an agreed $2,000 in total they should have known what they were enetering into. No way can they complain about the "heavy" vehicles, it was because they went into the recovery with knowlingly what was involved and with unserviced and poorly maintained lightweight 'bush' vehicles that were plainly not up to the task. They can not charge extra because of this.
To me this was a commercial recovery at a fixed cost after seeing the situation. Only the agreed amount is payable and if, as suggested, the vehicles are been held pending the full payment demanded, then that's illegal and the police need to be involved without further delay.

[red-devil]

Ask to see there recovery certs, if they dont have one then the courts will love this case,

[jeremy]

This seems to me like the perfect example of the benefit of belonging to a 4wd club...

You get people who have the experience to tell you what you need to do to prepare your car and yourself to attack such a track. And at least on a club trip when things go wrong, you have guys there who can help you get home again (without the $8000 bill!).

[sibainmud]

I'm lost for words

Subscribed

This one's gunna be sticky

[zero4]

Appreciate for all you guys reply,


My mate and I are applying for Auckland Four Wheel Drive Club now,I look forward to meeting you guys later.



Update: They have reduced recovery cost to $2750 each truck today.

[Pedro]

that still $5500 for the two, to break that much gear in one recovery is quite impressive, I would guess cookes and recovery gear suppliers are on first name basis with this lot.
I have done recoveries in the past and had to tow various clowns out of the bush, one cost me a rebuild on a V8, others cost me strops, never got a cent towards repairs, if it blew up/broke while towing it was going to do the same within a short period of time anyway, as for strops breaking generally 2 reasons, in bad condition to start with or overloaded and being used incorrectly


Pedro

[stinky]

Wonder if the guys who did the recovery are on here and will like to explain