best 4wd

[stealth]

gidday gidday,

Just wondering what the best bang for buck off roader is?

I currently off road a Subaru (god help me i know) and am thinking of upgrading to something with solid axles front and rear, as i have a family and regularly have a car load, my friend has suggested i get a double cab hilux around 1985ish as this is what he had and it fit 5 ppl and was great offroad.

so thinking that i need 5 seats what would you recommend to someone looking for a decent off roader which would be semi standard - possible body lift and tyres only.

TIA

[mylux]

HILUX, HILUX or maybe a HILUX.
Get the best forget the rest
OK so maybe I'm biased.
Sounds to me like you have awesome freinds if they told you to get a hilux.
P.S where you from

[pradon35s]

over last few years iv had a sj413 samurai a swb bj70 a surf(ifs I know) a ln65 double cab and my current kzj78.

by far best bang for buck was the ln65 dc..

sure it was 2.4 non turbo gutless as but it still got thru the boggy stuff with big tyres and the only thing it ever cost me was the lift kit, the wheels and diesel oh and rucs.. apart from that it was built proof. then some dirty scum knicked it.

[Overkill]

You are gonna get heaps of peoples views asking a question like that Here's mine........Land Rover Discovery (and yes I am biased )

[T-Boon]

It really boils down to 3 options IMO

Surf

Safari

And Vitara,

All have thie pro`s and cons, have a squiz around and you`ll see whats right for you.

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

I like these type of questions, Don't waste ya time with a Nissan Get a landcruiser and you'll never look back
Ok so I'm biased to

[stealth]

thanks guys, For the ppl who are just naming thier truck, have you owned other offroad trucks before?

Why do you think a particular truck is better? for example cruiser vs hilux... is there any real difference?

Im not after a fast tuck but would have to be pretty reliable.

[pruggerdore]

88sh--93sh swb prado. most capable I have seen out of the box so to speak. wish I had spent the extra to get one instead of a hilux. still building a prado based project tho
radius arms=good
cross over steering factory. biggest problem with a hilux
pto winch available


Ooops you said four door

umm double cab hilux

[Landynut]

if you want reliable get a series land rover (yes im also biased)

the one thing about a land rover is you always get home....
no matter how bogged down you get, you will always get out with a bit of elbow grease

not like these hilux / nissan drivers who end up walking for help

in all my experience I give alot of credit to the little zooks tho, they are awesome little units - definately not worth overlooking..

people think of landrovers as unreliable because they break axles... but you can swap out an axle almost anywhere, and its a very cheap fix (about 80 - 100 bucks...) extremely simple, easy to work on, unlike these jap things . . .

first vehicle seen by 60% of the developing world, because it crossed continents by itself without roads or backup.......

british army landrovers are always pulling out those bulky useless humvees in afghanistan too

a short wheel base landy can seat up to 6 people comfortably if you put seats in the back...

thats my 2c worth

[Crash bandicoot]

ive owned,

1994 V6 pajero
1985 hilux
1988 hilux
1990 surf
1990 rodeo
and 89 patrol

out of all of them it would have to be the Rodeo.

Ex army, had lockers fitted front and rear, winch, 265 70 15 RMT's
double cab well side , wasnt even raised, and would go anywhere the old man took his ATV King Quad.

i found the Patrol to heavy
the surfs front suspension to restrictive and too heavy on gas(even the patrol used less)

the pajero was a lemon, fooked front diff, and leaking valve stem seals

the hiluxs were practical, but need money thrown at them to go where a patrol can go.

[DaveM]

I've had:

1989 Surf
1992 Bighorn
1992 Safari
1989 Safari
1999 Safari
1990 80 series Cruiser
1995 Safari

Can probably tell, but I'd stick with a Nissan. Little heavier, but damn reliable and strong.

[Overkill]

thanks guys, For the ppl who are just naming thier truck, have you owned other offroad trucks before?

Why do you think a particular truck is better? for example cruiser vs hilux... is there any real difference?

Im not after a fast tuck but would have to be pretty reliable.

I've had.........

Series 2a Landrover (Holden 202 Manual)
410 Suzuki (1000cc rocket ship Manual)
Isuzu Trooper (2.6 Petrol Manual)
Nissan Safari SWB (4.2 Auto)
SWB Pajero (3.5 V6 Manual)
Land Rover Discovery (3.9 V8 Auto)

Each had different Pros and Cons, the best for getting out of bogs and was brilliant at wet hill climbs was the Pajero......awesome power to weight ratio. The most fun was with the Suzuki and Series LR but impractical for a more than 2 people.

The Trooper was a great family vehicle but had issues with the mill so ended up getting rid of it early on. Unless you purchase a Nissan with power mods already, or lockers front and rear with a big azz winch, I rate as my most disappointing truck to date, but they do have an unlimited amount of after market stuff if you want to make it into a beast.

The Disco out of the box has been my best buy for offroading and cruising, yes thirsty on the gas (mine being V8) but I don't use it that often for long trips. It has never let me down in bush and have pulled out everything....Toyos, Nissans, Pajeros......I run 33's and go where the Nissans do on 35's (smaller diff head on the disco).

Being a 7 seater also helps with taking the family and friends on trips away.

Out of family trucks (5 seater+) I have owned and each of these trucks had suspension and/or body lifts all running 33" (my choice has always been Maxxis Mudzillas)......

#1 Disco
#2 Pajero
Trooper
Nissan

Every one has different experiences with different trucks, I would suggest getting hold of your local club and see if you can ride along with your shortlist of trucks.....You can certainly come for a trip in our truck if you can get local

[petefj40]

I like these type of questions, Don't waste ya time with a Nissan Get a landcruiser and you'll never look back
Ok so I'm biased to

X2

What ever you get. Have fun in it! And if you aren't getting stuck on the tracks? You're not going hard enough. But, if you're driving a Nissan? You'll find yourself getting stuck a lot anyway.

[stealth]

Just did a quick trade me search, and the landrovers are pretty dam cheap if you dont need it to be on the road. the thing tha kinda worries me with a vehicle like this is the replacement parts, Will series 1 and 2 parts fit into series 3 etc?

thanks for the background info, certainly makes it easier to understand your decisions

[Landynut]

Just did a quick trade me search, and the landrovers are pretty dam cheap if you dont need it to be on the road. the thing tha kinda worries me with a vehicle like this is the replacement parts, Will series 1 and 2 parts fit into series 3 etc?

thanks for the background info, certainly makes it easier to understand your decisions

they are cheap as chips to get parts for.. series 2 / 2a and 3 are for the most part entirely interchangeable for parts...
you dont have to go far in nz to find landy parts.... and certainly wont be ordering any "ex-japan"
all you need is a socket set, and a set of imperial combination spanners and almost anything is able to be fixed yourself on the weekend in your garage - forget about $80 an hour mechanics

depends just how "family oriented" you want your 4wd to be... a lwb land rover has the capacity to carry up to 12 people on seats with belts, a short wheel base is more like 6-7 comfortably... and you have the option of truck cab, safari cab, or no cab at all just throw some roll bars on it and get a soft-top made to fit

on the downside they are not sealed from dust etc, have no aircon and poor if any heating...

so if you are the kind of person who likes luxury and comfort a landrover is not for you...

but if you are the kind of person who just wants the best off-road vehicle in the world, and dont need or care about things like cupholders, aircon, plush leather or a seat that warms and massages your ass - get a land rover...

I had mine road-legal for nearly a decade and travelled the length and breadth of NZ in it... the only time I can think of that it broke down was the water pump, of which I had a spare in the back because I knew it was coming and it took 15 minutes to do on the side of the road with some cardboard and grease for a gasket...

The only reason it is relegated to being towed from A to B on an A-frame nowadays is the cost of registration and petrol for too many vehicles, it always passed its wof's with minimal fuss and over the decade i've owned it, if I add up the cost of buying it, the cost of upgrades like rollbars etc, general repairs and maintenance - it has still cost me less than the initial purchase price of a stock hilux or patrol that isnt falling to pieces......

with the cheaper purchase price of a landy you will have more money to spend on things like a good winch, tyres, lockers etc...

[stealth]

thanks Landynut, yeah it will be a purpose only vehicle, but has to be able to carry 6 (if i take the whole family) at this stage im still looking but i could not belive how cheap they are in comparison to a oldish hilux,

[Landynut]

thanks Landynut, yeah it will be a purpose only vehicle, but has to be able to carry 6 (if i take the whole family) at this stage im still looking but i could not belive how cheap they are in comparison to a oldish hilux,

yeah its a supply and demand thing....

something like 75% of all land rovers ever produced since 1955 are still in use today...

I would hate to see the stastistic for mid 80's hiluxes.. probably 5%

[rokhound]

If you are good at, and really enjoy being covered in oil and grease and shit and always working on one of the most unreliable pos that was ever produced, buy a LR.
Other than that you will find that the Jap Toyotas, and Nissans are the price they are for a very good reason.

Not sure about Disco's but I honestly wouldn't go anywhere near a series Rover as a 4wd, they are horrid to drive, weak as shit in the std drive train, uncomfortable, noisy and expensive to run. This doesn't even start to account for what they do to your brain, as you find almost universally that all LR owners think they are the best thing in the world ???????
At least when you get to Defender stage in LR's they have a good ride, but still with the most uncomfortable seating you will find in vehicle that was produced in the Western World.

[stealth]

If you are good at, and really enjoy being covered in oil and grease and shit and always working on one of the most unreliable pos that was ever produced, buy a LR.
Other than that you will find that the Jap Toyotas, and Nissans are the price they are for a very good reason.

Not sure about Disco's but I honestly wouldn't go anywhere near a series Rover as a 4wd, they are horrid to drive, weak as shit in the std drive train, uncomfortable, noisy and expensive to run. This doesn't even start to account for what they do to your brain, as you find almost universally that all LR owners think they are the best thing in the world ???????
At least when you get to Defender stage in LR's they have a good ride, but still with the most uncomfortable seating you will find in vehicle that was produced in the Western World.

good to see alternative views, at this stage im just looking, and any and all info will come in handy at purchase time.

[rokhound]

More info would help from your end. Where do you want to wheel it? what sort of road miles are you looking at doing? How much (to within a couple of grand) do you want to spend? How handy are you at maintenance, repairs, fabricating etc? Any preference on diesel or petrol? What size are the people you are taking out with you? (remembering that smallish kids don't stay that way for long) etc.
The title for your thread comes up now and again and it generally always turns into a shit fight, so be prepared for that as well

[Landynut]

If you are good at, and really enjoy being covered in oil and grease and shit and always working on one of the most unreliable pos that was ever produced, buy a LR.
Other than that you will find that the Jap Toyotas, and Nissans are the price they are for a very good reason.

Not sure about Disco's but I honestly wouldn't go anywhere near a series Rover as a 4wd, they are horrid to drive, weak as shit in the std drive train, uncomfortable, noisy and expensive to run. This doesn't even start to account for what they do to your brain, as you find almost universally that all LR owners think they are the best thing in the world ???????
At least when you get to Defender stage in LR's they have a good ride, but still with the most uncomfortable seating you will find in vehicle that was produced in the Western World.

all of the above is just your opinion and experience.

it doesnt need to be a shitfight, unless the IQ of people in here drops below their shoe size....

as i said, they were not designed to be comfortable... they are just supposed to do what they do....
the suspension was made to be tough, not to cushion your tender little backside
and I already stated that its probably not a good option for family outings with kids etc if you want comfortable..
get a toyota surf if you want a comfortable bouncy spongy thing that drives like a boat.....

I have had very few problems with my LR despite the shit i've put it through... theres been a few weekends in the garage making alterations and doing repairs etc but i enjoy that....

some people enjoy golf...

as far as being unreliable goes . . . you have no idea what you are talking about mate, that is just your opinion...
the LR gets its bad name from people that treat them like shit and break them because they dont know how to drive .

[monstr]

Ill be right up front and say im a Safari owner and love it ,The only draw back is the weight ,But if you want a bullet proof drive line and motor go for a TD4.2 manual patrol/safari ,A couple of things that worry me about L/Rovers is if they are so good why are they so cheep? .Another is i used to run a few farm rambles up at the Extreme park for Russel Biggs ,a couple of times we had one of the local L/Rover clubs all driving Disco"s and Rangerovers Without exception every time we towed 2 or 3 back with broken front diffs ,this happened on not to difficult tracks ,now dont get me wrong im not bagging them i just think there are a lot of better options out there.includeing (wash my mouth out )a Toyota

[Landynut]

Ill be right up front and say im a Safari owner and love it ,The only draw back is the weight ,But if you want a bullet proof drive line and motor go for a TD4.2 manual patrol/safari ,A couple of things that worry me about L/Rovers is if they are so good why are they so cheep? .Another is i used to run a few farm rambles up at the Extreme park for Russel Biggs ,a couple of times we had one of the local L/Rover clubs all driving Disco"s and Rangerovers Without exception every time we towed 2 or 3 back with broken front diffs ,this happened on not to difficult tracks ,now dont get me wrong im not bagging them i just think there are a lot of better options out there.includeing (wash my mouth out )a Toyota

as i said, people not knowing how to drive them give them a bad rep... i cant account for rangies or discos but i understand the early range rovers are quite solid off road vehicles..

I DO like nissans believe it or not, the patrol is a bullet proof solid beast of a vehicle.... but the weight can be a very bad thing if it means sliding off the track

nissan make a good motor tho, full credit for that..

I dont place any stock in the original LR motors, they were what 55 horsepower? haha ...

holden 202 or 186 = bombproof engines really...
you can run them out of oil, overheat them, drown them and they just keep on going....

the standard seating in a LR I will admit is not pleasurable to be in for long periods, which is why i spent 50 bucks on a pair of celica GTR bucket seats which fit perfectly and are comfortable to boot....

[Landynut]

at the end of the day I dont care what you buy as long as you love it and have fun with it

someones gotta go in to bat for LR tho .....

[stealth]

More info would help from your end.

Where do you want to wheel it?

Everywhere, some good hunting spots out in the bush, just seeing the high country, not like mudbogs etc.

What sort of road miles are you looking at doing?

little as possible, i have a daily driver, race car, mrs car, bike etc it would be mainly for getting out in the backcountry

How much do you want to spend?

Little as possible (dont we all) prolly limit somewhere around the 6g mark

How handy are you at maintenance, repairs, fabricating etc?

Pretty good, have built up a few street cars, do 99% of my own work on all my own cars

Any preference on diesel or petrol?

No really fussed either way... havent really worked on a diesal so its prolly better to get what i know.

What size are the people you are taking out with you?

um prolly the biggest would be 80-90 kg... lol and the kids range from a 1year old to 15...

.
The title for your thread comes up now and again and it generally always turns into a shit fight, so be prepared for that as well

yep seen it on many a forum before, but its prolly the best way to get a feel for what im after...

[monstr]

monstr wrote:
Ill be right up front and say im a Safari owner and love it ,The only draw back is the weight ,But if you want a bullet proof drive line and motor go for a TD4.2 manual patrol/safari ,A couple of things that worry me about L/Rovers is if they are so good why are they so cheep? .Another is i used to run a few farm rambles up at the Extreme park for Russel Biggs ,a couple of times we had one of the local L/Rover clubs all driving Disco"s and Rangerovers Without exception every time we towed 2 or 3 back with broken front diffs ,this happened on not to difficult tracks ,now dont get me wrong im not bagging them i just think there are a lot of better options out there.includeing (wash my mouth out )a Toyota


as i said, people not knowing how to drive them give them a bad rep... i cant account for rangies or discos but i understand the early range rovers are quite solid off road vehicles..

I DO like nissans believe it or not, the patrol is a bullet proof solid beast of a vehicle.... but the weight can be a very bad thing if it means sliding off the track

nissan make a good motor tho, full credit for that..

I dont place any stock in the original LR motors, they were what 55 horsepower? haha ...

holden 202 or 186 = bombproof engines really...
you can run them out of oil, overheat them, drown them and they just keep on going....

the standard seating in a LR I will admit is not pleasurable to be in for long periods, which is why i spent 50 bucks on a pair of celica GTR bucket seats which fit perfectly and are comfortable to boot....
.......................................................................................
Yep i agree 100% in what your saying .I think if you were to ask 20 people you would prob end up with 20 different answers.i would suggest you think long and hard on what you expect to be doing with it then contact your local 4wd club and talk to them and arrange a few trips as co driver in different makes and models then make your mind up ..

[J_Dub]

its threads like these that just show that everyone has an opinion and we all have our likes and dislikes, and there is NO right answer.

It comes down to the price you want to pay and what you want..

Im a Toyota fan, light, and a piece a piss to work on, parts a plenty and 5 seats..
The Safaris are tough but heavy and like a truck to work on..

For what you want ide consider a Jeep Cherokee..
Power and plenty of room/ storage.
you could buy 1 for 3k
spend 1.5k on mud tyres
and the rest on a winch/bar recovery gear

[Landynut]

actually I think the jeep is a good option.... one downside perhaps is parts availability? I dont know much about them yankee jeeps, you see them around often enough, mostly cherokees - but i still think parts would become an issue sooner or later?

also they mostly seem to be automatics (ick)

[Pedro]

For the last 20 yrs i have given landrovers shit. unrelaible , ugly, british crap etc etc

having said that i just sold my trials truk and bought a 94 discovery for family 4wd like you intend to do, touring bit of road work etc, i went thru the toyota, nissan, isuzu, mitsi etc.

what i found/figured out

toyota, decent solid axle earllier hilux, leaf sprung= rough ride not overly refined, relieable probably deisel, or 80 series coil sprung bloody heavy and BIG in the bush, reasonable ones start at 10-12k and have 300000k on average, or seem to anyway
surfs independant front end not strong in the front diff

nissan, coil sprung comfortable ride, big and heavy, maintanance on diesel or any diesel for that matter can be dear,

diesel vehicles = 600 rego cost, + RUC

petrol $300 rego, no ruc, dear to run, but for lower miles works out as you are already $300-$400 better off per year

jeep, dont like em

mitsibushi pajero, cheep to buy, independant front, running gear pretty strong, lots of electronics like air bags etc,

bought a disco
1994 no abs, no air bags, 3.9 litre v8, auto 140k electric window/central lock $3k,
done a couple of trips around the place with family, comfortable, smooth, reasonable power, its a V8,

my persnal intention is to rip the rover weak diffs out and replace with 80 series diffs, would be indestructable behind the 3.9, side/rear bars, tyres, winch and then cruise around the country.

It is possible to fit land crusier diffs into the rover housings, high pinion front fits in with new holes to bolt diff into and new inner axles, although i beleive you can put hilux CVs into the rover housing with minimal machining,
with the rear diff can get a cruiser center put in and new axles made as well, give you very strong running gear.

i am not a fan of land rover but i have to say the ride and comfort from a disco is not bad

abs can make off roading interesting
airbags, you are tied to commerical bullbar manufacturers so about 2k for a bull bar

comes down to how far you want to go and how "mechanically" minded you are

Getting ready for flaming

Pedro

[rokhound]

Right, with your answers to the above we are getting somewhere.

You are not going looking at going into serious (grade 4 and above)
situations. You need to carry 5 plus people, so I would suggest that biffs out all SWB options (as 5 people also need gear etc). For the money, I suggest that LWB 60 series LC (12ht only) or LWB Patrol would be the go, but as you are leaning toward petrol power this may not be ideal. I reckon the jeep could be a good start although they are quite small. Might not hurt to look at V6 Bighorns and Pajeros as well. To get you in rigid axle territory you are almost limited to petrol Hilux DC, Range Rover, Disco (also quite small), LC troopie (good luck finding one though), or Jeep Cherokee.
Some of the IFS rigs are not too bad though and that should be taken into account.

What ever you get, make sure you use it, and have fun doing so.