Triangulated 4 link Hilux Front

[mattscruiser]

Hi has any one done or know of some one who has done a triangulated fourlink in the front of a hilux . Was it successfull and can it be acomplished . Also is there any plans of the four link design for the front of a hilux or know where to get some. Any help would be much appreciated .

[rokhound]

Very difficult to make a triangulated front work on a full bodied wagon. The steering and geometry required make it really bloody hard. I had a 5 link on my old lux, but the new one has a 3 link. If you need evidence that a 3 link will work as good as anything else, look up Jafas' thread.

[bernie]

You will not find a triangulated 4 link front, plans or as a kit, off the shelf anywhere, this will be “custom” all the way. Rokhound is right; there are serious issues with bump steer that have to be addressed. There is no real way around this other than hydraulic steer, well there “might” be one that “could” work, but it gets very messy in hurry, think Massey Ferguson tractor and the location of the steering box. (I admit to not thinking about that for too long) By far the simplest way is hydraulic steering and you could not consider hydraulic steering if you want a road legal vehicle as the rules say you need to “maintain a mechanical link” in the system, something hydro steer does not offer. Also, to gain the benefits of a tri 4 link, which would be the unhindered axle travel, you are probably looking at long (12” and up) travel coilovers and the mounting of as well, more dollars.
I have a little Jeep wrangler with a custom triangulated 4 link in the rear and 3 link and panhard bar up front and while there is always room for improvement it works ok for what it is and this would be my advise if you are hell bent on the custom stuff.

There are no hard and fast rules/plans for this type of conversion; you will find they will be a combination of yours and others ideas and full of compromise, if I was to offer any advise it would be; use quality joints at the chassis and axle only, no compromise, the last thing you will want to do is run over the front axle while travelling down the motorway, and to think “actions and reactions” before getting the welder out.
As a side note
I also have a second Wrangler (I know, I know I can hear you punks already) we are nearly ready to hit the starter button on, this has triangulated 4 link front and rear and I can tell you it was no easy feat, on the front anyway. Keeping in mind I wanted a high roll centre, this meant triangulating the upper links not the lower, everything mounting in front of the fire wall is an issue, everything.
Just saying, in case you wanted something to think about...
Anyway, good luck and I look forward to hearing about and seeing what you come up with.

PS if anyone can come up with a way around the bump steer with a tri 4link without going full hydro steer, I really would like to hear it. Seriously.
Bernie

[rokhound]

PS if anyone can come up with a way around the bump steer with a tri 4link without going full hydro steer, I really would like to hear it. Seriously.
Bernie

Pretty sure there in no way without mount the steering mechanism on the axle, and to do that you need to very felxible conections to it (like rubber hoses for hydro ).
I breifly considered 4 link front, but it only took 40 minutes research to ditch that idea, mainly because mine is going to be road legal.

[darinz]

Bernie you are a bit slow. (but then I've told you that many times before!) Try searching Howe steering rack. Then all you need to do is get a steering shaft that will acomodate the travel.
A Howe rack will deal with a Trophy Truck smashing into rocks at 100mph with 37's so it will handle you little Jeep.
The hardest part I can see is building a steering shaft that will keep the certifiers happy as it will either need a very long slip joint or many uj to get it to work.
FYI, it has been done but not in NZ that I know of.

Also some new cars are coming with steer by wire so the rules will change eventually to allow hydraulics. And if you listen to the Brassey's then they'll argue for WC that Hydraulic is legal as can be WOF'd in certain vehicles!

[bernie]

Darin
Yes I am aware of the Howe rack, but did abandon the idea as I could not get the Massey Ferguson tractor out of my head. You know how it is, the air is thinner up here man
I have discussed at great length with the younger Brassey of the legalities of hydro steer and can only say at this stage, there is a plan and to say any more would mean I would have to make a trip to Whangarei in the dead of night.
Bernie

[jeremy]

Blue torch fab ran a steering box with hydro assist on a 4 link on their KOH car...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10230893#post10230893

...so it can be done, but with lot's of moving parts.

[mattscruiser]

Thanks for all your imputs . It does sound like the 3 link with panhard is a viable option as always it does pay to copy what has been done before and thanks again

[darinz]

Darin
Yes I am aware of the Howe rack, but did abandon the idea as I could not get the Massey Ferguson tractor out of my head. You know how it is, the air is thinner up here man
I have discussed at great length with the younger Brassey of the legalities of hydro steer and can only say at this stage, there is a plan and to say any more would mean I would have to make a trip to Whangarei in the dead of night.
Bernie

So does that mean the 'new' jeep is part Massey Ferguson? That is just classic!!

But seriously, the MF / Bedford system does work and taking that steering box placement then fitting a rack means the steering shaft is in the right place to not need a massive slip joint. The hardest part is probably a right angle drive in place of the steering box?

PS As for your trip to the north, remember what I said last time. Best case senario is you knock me out and I fall on you!

[bernie]

Darin
Yeah man, you’d just love that wouldn’t ya; I won’t have to make that trip up north, I can see ya now; laughin so hard that ya fall off the rocker hitting ya head on the stove....

Seriously: to get around the steering problem with tri 4link I got the idea from looking at a tractor and I still think it would work, on paper, it does. BUT I never went ahead with it; I think it gets messy in a hurry. (To many moving links) The rack; on paper works also, but having the steering shaft constantly moving in and out with every mm of suspension travel like that kinda don’t ring right.

Jeremy
I looked at the KOH car, nice looking rig, it is however a variation of what I was talking about, again, lots of links and obviously more doable on a rig that don’t have a full chassis or body. Don’t know how the drop arm under the driver’s cockpit would far up in places like Maratoto or Waitawheta. All the same, probably no reason at all why something like this could not be CertEd as long as safe engineering practice were used.

[darinz]

I agree and for the same effort I'd rather build an independant front end. With the strength and performance they are obtaining in the KOH buggies, I wonder who will be first to race one in NZ?