cowboy mechanic ripped off my mate, advice?

[Landynut]

long story so here goes:

a year ago a friend who I've recently met had this tidy 109 series 3 wagon (1978, looked after, never off-roaded) and the engine (original 2,250cc 4 cylinder) blew up (cracked head I believe) and he approached a garage whom i may or may not name here to fix it on reccomendation of an acquaintance who also happens to be the mechanics uncle...

said mechanic has a very fancy website claiming to be "engine conversion / repower specialists!" and lists a bunch of engine repowers that have been done in the past (including said landrover now . . .)

my mate however has no knowledge of vehicles or engines whatsoever, will not even change his own oil for fear of doing it wrong . . . I only just met him recently so his advice up to this point has been poor to say the least .

the mechanic advised him the best option was to transplant a toyota (3b?) 3.5 litre diesel engine and gearbox (5spd) to the tune of $10,200 all inclusive... which meant cutting off / welding on new engine and gearbox mounts, and modifying driveshafts etc etc, and said he could have it done in 3 weeks. (sound fair enough?) all of which went straight over my friends head being rather nieve - but he liked the sound of a diesel and 5spd, cheaper to run etc..

he agrees, and pays cash in full (this guy doesn't muck around when paying his bills ....) upon picking up his beloved landy three months later. of course he kept all reciepts etc.

now as if waiting three months to get your truck back when you were told three weeks is not bad enough, the problems start...

it leaks oil like buggery, he has to top it up every time he drives it so it does not run out of oil and sieze.

the mechanic was nice enough to give him a one month warranty on the engine, which of course is superceded by the consumer garauntees act of 3 months or 20,000km reliable motoring (he paid a decent ammount, he should get a decent, reliable truck back, right?)

lots of other bits in between but to cut a long story short, 8 months later it gets so bad that when he went to use his truck one day he found it had leaked pretty much all its oil out onto the ground.. he gets it towed by aa to a different garage who reccommend steam cleaning the underneath to find the oil leak... he agrees and leaves it with them. they ring back and tell him its much worse than he thought, no simple oil leak - the front diff has been bashing the sump and cam to pieces, cracked the cam cover, damaged the sump and also split the engine mount (bear in mind all this was certified by vtnz and given a fresh warrant 8 months ago after the engine conversion)

so he rings the original mechanic who reluctantly agrees to take it back and fix it free of charge (its pretty obvious who is at fault here) no problem, except he cant take it til the next week, fine.... he gets it the next week on monday, and it just sat in his yard for a week. my friend is a member of AA so he got onto them and they gave the mechanic a ring telling him to get a move on it, and also provide a courtesy car if possible...

well my friend gives the mechanic a phone call the next day and the mechanic is very very angry now, getting a phone call from AA asking him to please get the job done, and provide a courtesy car, ticked him off something major.. he threatens that he would have a good case in NOT fixing the damage having done a whole 10,000km since the conversion.

this whole time my friend is having to hire a replacement van (similar carrying capacity to a 109) at $132 per day.

he absolutely refuses to even provide a 28 dollar a day rental car to get around in, saying silly things like "what do you want me to do, wave a magic wand and produce a car for you?" and wont spare 10 seconds to talk to my friend, OR me about the plan to fix his truck.

I finally got a look at it myself this morning, I have seen it before now but have never looked underneath... it has migrated to the workshop but no work has been started (he gave the AA a promise to have it completed by this friday). and what I saw absolutely shocked me, I was horrified.

get this ...

even on a flat concrete workshop floor, sitting nice and level - there is less than 10mm of clearance between the front diff and the sump/crank pulley. and that is with the sump cover removed (the previous garage had removed it to inspect for damage)

This vehicle should not have been allowed to drive on the road like this... seriously, ONE centimetre of travel ????
you couldnt even drive that down a bowling green without the diff smashing the engine to pieces..... and it is supposed to be a FOUR WHEEL DRIVE ?

and yet it got certified and passed a WOF upon completion of the engine transplant... I think something dodgy has gone on here.

I think the mechanic plans to somehow lift the engine up (cutting the firewall to pieces perhaps?) to remedy the problem, but without discarding the bonnet I dont see this giving enough clearance... I think a suspension lift is about the only thing that will provide enough clearance between the engine and diff (the bump stops on the diff and chassis could be built up to stop it happening again)

who knows what he is up to, I dont think he has any real idea what he is doing - as it seems to me a totally unsuitable conversion, and was doomed right from the very start.

ideas?
what should he do?

naming and shaming them would be very satisfying but wont achieve much at the moment, and at this stage it would be prudent to get the vehicle back without angering the mechanic enough to put iron filings into the engine or gearbox . . .

I feel really badly for this guy because he didn't know any better, it seems to me he has been taken for a ride by this outfit that willingly took 10 grand off him, when there were thousands of far better options as far as engines go (a recon'd tdi and an overdrive could be done for half the cost...)

I think he deserves a fair go...

[haynzy]

worst mistake cash up front, failing that fair go then name and shame,
end of the landy was just tryin to be rid of jap parts aye landynuts

[mud_slinger]

this "mechanic/repower specialist" is a rogue cowboy, its obvious he has no idea what the hell he is doing. 10cm from sump to top of diff housing???? are you for real. If it was me i'd be inclined to take the truck back, get a PROFESSIONAL to redo it properly and professionally and send the cowboy the bill to fix his f**k ups and then tell him to find a new career.

If the cowboy is going to fix it i'd ask for some of my money back, 10k sounds a little expensive (but i dont know how much labour be involved) for a motor and box and custom mounts to be welded in.

This guy should be named so everyone knows to keep away from him and to not have this happen to anyone else.

[Landynut]

this "mechanic/repower specialist" is a rogue cowboy, its obvious he has no idea what the hell he is doing. 10cm from sump to top of diff housing???? are you for real. If it was me i'd be inclined to take the truck back, get a PROFESSIONAL to redo it properly and professionally and send the cowboy the bill to fix his f**k ups and then tell him to find a new career.

If the cowboy is going to fix it i'd ask for some of my money back, 10k sounds a little expensive (but i dont know how much labour be involved) for a motor and box and custom mounts to be welded in.

This guy should be named so everyone knows to keep away from him and to not have this happen to anyone else.

Thanks mud slinger, yes I think I will be naming them but at this stage I think getting the truck back safe and sound first on friday before going any further (independant inspections etc), it's fair that we give the mechanic a reasonable chance to fix it up isn't it? I mean he is one angry little bastard, I'd love to stave his nose in but then he could go and do something to the truck and its just not worth it at this point... rather get it back safe!

and no I'm not joking, 10mm not centimetres, MILLIMETRES from the top of the diff housing to the sump.
and thats sittin flat and level...
I got a couple of sneaky pictures on my cell phone when he wasn't looking, will have a look now and see how they came out, was pretty dark so probably cant make it out very well...

in my series 3 I've had the diff up against the bump stops a number of times, with a holden 202 in it - and it is not even remotely close to touching the engine (I think there is about a foot of clearance sitting level)....

when we called in this morning I was very polite and eager to discuss his plan to fix it (thats a reasonable request isn't it?) like raising the suspension etc, but he got angry immediately, saying he "doesn't have time to talk about it" and walked away from me...

oh and also he stated quite clearly that after this (fixing it?) he never wants to see this truck again . . . .

if its not suitable to be driven on the road when he gets it back on friday it will definately be going to a REAL mechanic and the bill will get sent to the cowboy... its not hard to measure between the bump stops on the diff and chassis, and measure between the highest point on the diff housing and sump - seems a very rookie mistake to have made in the beginning, being that this guy claims in his adds and on his website to be an "engine conversion specialist" !

[Landynut]

worst mistake cash up front, failing that fair go then name and shame,
end of the landy was just tryin to be rid of jap parts aye landynuts

He didnt pay cash up front, he paid when the job was done and he drove it away.... needless to say he had no idea he would end up with these sorts of problems, very trusting sort of a guy, expects a mechanic with a flash shop to be "honest" and know what he's talking about ....

just speculation really but you could be quite right there haynzy... maybe his mate had a cruiser motor & box he wanted rid of, engine and box made up something like $2500 of the bill - and it was never reconditioned or anything afaik, just dumped straight in.. I think it came out of an 87 yota? did they make a 3.5L back then?

[Swamped]

get a pic of it before its changed and stick it up here.

[haydgq]

It sounds like one of the 5 cylinder diesels that Toyo put in some of the Cruisers, but im no cruiser expert so could be wrong eh

[haynzy]

worst mistake cash up front, failing that fair go then name and shame,
end of the landy was just tryin to be rid of jap parts aye landynuts

He didnt pay cash up front, he paid when the job was done and he drove it away.... needless to say he had no idea he would end up with these sorts of problems, very trusting sort of a guy, expects a mechanic with a flash shop to be "honest" and know what he's talking about ....

just speculation really but you could be quite right there haynzy... maybe his mate had a cruiser motor & box he wanted rid of, engine and box made up something like $2500 of the bill - and it was never reconditioned or anything afaik, just dumped straight in.. I think it came out of an 87 yota? did they make a 3.5L back then?

vtnz need to shoulder alot of this blame too should not have cert plate end of

[Swamped]

Yeah I think the 3b is the 3.5l 5cylinder toymota engine. Mate has one in a 70 series. Goes pretty good eh. I would have thought there was enough room for it.

[haynzy]

Yeah I think the 3b is the 3.5l 5cylinder toymota engine. Mate has one in a 70 series. Goes pretty good eh. I would have thought there was enough room for it.

3b = 3.4na deisel
1pz? is the 3.5 i think

[Swamped]

Yeah I think the 3b is the 3.5l 5cylinder toymota engine. Mate has one in a 70 series. Goes pretty good eh. I would have thought there was enough room for it.

3b = 3.4na deisel
1pz? is the 3.5 i think

Goes to show what a patrol/sj owner knows. I think you may be right
The 1PZ is the one I was thinking of

[Landynut]

thanks guys for all your input, wonderful

I'm just hoping he has it done by friday and its all good, sounds like it should be a good reliable motor for it... just the way hes done the engine mounts is unsuitable perhaps?

it cant be any bigger than a straight 6 202 surely? and theres a good foot of clearance between engine & diff in mine......

I've had a good look at it so if nothing else he's got me to back him up if it goes to custard....

got a pic of the clearance between diff and sump but its pretty dark, needed a torch or something...
I didnt wanna hang around too long because the mechanic was such an angry little bugger I thought any second he might lose the plot and start throwing crescents around...

[mylux]

B.O.P Doing Repowers now

[Swamped]

Oh you went there haha.

Just increase the gamma and brightness in the pic a bit and post it. just needa get the gist of it. I have no idea what the sump etc looks like just wana see how bad it actually is. Could have been a case of switching the sump around and changing the pickup but as stated I'm not down with the toyotas

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

The 3.4 3b engine isnt very big and has been put into alot of landys before, but what mite of happened is with having a 5 speed on it they mounted the motor and box alot further forward so they didnt have to cut the trans tunnel to much for the levers, but doing that would put the sump closer to the diff head.
But they really dont know what there doing if they can put a 3b into a landy.

[Landynut]

B.O.P Doing Repowers now

hahahah I was waiting for someone to say something along those lines !!

[Landynut]

[Landynut]

I didnt get a look at it before the sump was removed, but where the red arrow is pointing between the diff housing and sump edge (gasket surface) i could fit my little finger in there but not my thumb.....

photos were absolutely shite, stupid cameraphone... thats the only one you can see anything in, not very helpful sorry...

[aLUX]

Small claims man - take him through the ringer before you name and shame him. You want your case nice and clean. Try getting other professional opinion too - an absolute must!

[Landynut]

Small claims man - take him through the ringer before you name and shame him. You want your case nice and clean. Try getting other professional opinion too - an absolute must!

yeah unfortunately I didn't know about it until it was back at the mechanics already, otherwise I would have had it inspected by an independant vehicle assessor, and possibly gone straight to disputes tribunal and/or had it repaired elsewhere at their cost.

[Heath]

Consumers guarantee act means the original wanker has to be given the opportunity to rectify the problem first.

[Landynut]

Consumers guarantee act means the original wanker has to be given the opportunity to rectify the problem first.

yeah I found that out when I looked into it, otherwise I would've headed down there with a tandem to take it somewhere else

the deadline is friday so its pretty much wait and see for now. . .

[4WDbits]

... (bear in mind all this was certified by vtnz and given a fresh warrant 8 months ago after the engine conversion)...

I don't see VTNZ listed as a Low Vol certifier, so make sure you know who the original low vol certifier was.

[Landynut]

oh and just in case the mechanic is reading this:

you better do a good job !

if there is absolutely no problem with this truck when it comes back nothing will be taken further, so long as its reliable and safe - what he originally SHOULD have got, he will be happy.

on the other hand if it is unsafe / unsatisfactory - i.e. unfit for purpose, it will be going further (i.e. court) ....

I tried to offer you advice on the best way to get more clearance between sump and diff but you basically told me to piss off more or less, so if you do another bodge up job and it comes back to bite you in the arse I wont feel any remorse.

the only real way to achieve more clearance would be a suspension lift, new shackles, new leafs and/or reforge the old ones - to get about 5 or 6 inches between the diff and motor?

the mechanic had every opportunity to start work on this nearly two weeks ago but chose to put it off to do other jobs (should be concentrating on fixing his original muckup first??)

pretty much anything he does is going to need re-certification wont it ? he is cutting it close to have that done by friday..

[Landynut]

... (bear in mind all this was certified by vtnz and given a fresh warrant 8 months ago after the engine conversion)...

I don't see VTNZ listed as a Low Vol certifier, so make sure you know who the original low vol certifier was.

sorry I was assuming vtnz did the certifications ?

maybe he or his mate is a low volume cert guy . . . would explain how such dodgy work got certified......

[Crash bandicoot]

LVVTA agents are sole operators and licenced seperatley from VTNZ vehicle inspectors.

Usually with an automotive /race engineering background as apposed to automotive mechanical background for VTNZ wof inspectors

[aLUX]

by the sounds of things this probably wont be rectified as there is heaps of work to do and the mech has other priorities - this is going to go on much longer..

Keep us updated

[Landynut]

by the sounds of things this probably wont be rectified as there is heaps of work to do and the mech has other priorities - this is going to go on much longer..

Keep us updated

yeah well, his customer is without a vehicle because of his muckup, and has been for two weeks now..so it should be his 1st priority really...

it would be good if I could find out which certifier was used...

72 hours til deadline ...

If he doesn't have it fixed by the deadline there is a good chance it will be removed to another location to be repaired, and he will foot the bill... he's been given plenty of time to fix it, and has neglected it to do wof's etc ....

[skid]

it would be good if I could find out which certifier was used...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&m ... d039c777e3


http://lvvta.org.nz/LVV%20Certifier%20List.pdf

[Landynut]

it would be good if I could find out which certifier was used...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&m ... d039c777e3


http://lvvta.org.nz/LVV%20Certifier%20List.pdf

cheers skid, I had already looked that up - cant really say for sure, could have been any one of several......