new truck poll - cruiser or rover ? you choose.

[bruntonjm]

Is this dude for real?? Who really has the time to dribble on this much about what some other turkey is buying! go do some work on ya landy im sure somthing needs fixing onit.
As for you poll: landcruser rules- landrover marginal at best, come on everyone knows this!
Id still take the toyota if it was twice the price ,and it will last three times as long.

Its obvious your still trying to talk up the land rovers, but it may have escaped you that theres not much going for them, they may be sugar coated, and wrapped up nicely, but they are still lemons. Havent seen one make a trip yet without breaking down and having to get towed. Cant imagine a new one would be any better.

[badnuz]

I would have thought landrover are pretty confident in their engines to offer an unlimited km's warranty . . . . I mean you could pretty much start it up and drive it day after day non-stop, 12 hours a day, and over 3 years that works out to 1,310,400km averaging 100km/hr... how many manufacturers cover an engine under warranty for a million km's ?

two fairly reputable mechanics I talked to said they just dont see any new defenders, but the new cruiser V8's tend to have issues with the turbos and gearbox problems....

as for getting out on trips more yeah I'd love to but I have to work for a living...

I thought this would be an interesting topic for people to discuss, doesn't have to be a heated debate, just throwing information around... it started out good but yeah....

mate, we all work for our livings......
the rovers engine is a ford tranist engine, so thats why they are reliable.....
imho a small displacemnt engine pulling big numbers in power/tourqe is just asking for issues. you only need to look at the drift guys with RB26 and the likes making 4-500 HP but they tend to grenade... same with the 2LT engines, sure they inherently have their faults, but for the 1st 10 yrs they were fine too.......

i would take a cruiser, mainly becasue of part-time 4x4 easier to drive on the road. i have just put manual hubs on my 80 and it is way better to drive around tound

[ice4x4]

I am struggling to understand how you can be serious that your mate is going to base his decision to spend $70k on an a few peoples opinions from an internet forum. So far 39 people have voted!!!!!!

This suggests to me that there actually is no "mate" and you are, in fact, just trying to stir up the shit. Which leads me to my next question, are you male or female??

If there is indeed, a "mate", with $70k to splash out why doesn't go and take both cars for a decent test drive. Do a bit of research for himself and make his own decision. There are pros and cons for both vehicles and he really needs to decide for himself.

I am a Land Rover guy, I always have been and I always will be. It is in my blood but it is people like you who give the rest of us a bad name. Every single post you make on this forum doesn't need to state how superior LR vehicles are and how rubbish Jap ones are. Don't get me wrong everyone likes a bit of banter but you are just taking it too far! If you don't tone it down then everyone is going to think you are a complete tool! (most probably do by now anyway!)

By now I'm sure you are thinking of a witty reply to type. Don't bother fella as I wont be replying. Just tone it down and we can all get along...

[haydgq]

I love the new Cruisers BUT, they do have there share of engine probs with this new V8, They should of kept the old 4.2 or made a new 6 cylinder version based on the same design.

The v8's have a issue relating to the oil galleries in the piston's hence why most of them use oil between services and i know a lot of the ones sold around the Manawatu have been back to the dealership for engine repairs twice now and in the end Toyota are supplying brand new bottom ends with better designed pistons etc etc, dont know the exact problem down to the little details but i do know there is a problem.

They have a weak front diff centre aswell, im guessing its a 8in.?

And yea the Defender uses a German designed and made Ford Puma engine which is a sweet engine.

[Landynut]

I love the new Cruisers BUT, they do have there share of engine probs with this new V8, They should of kept the old 4.2 or made a new 6 cylinder version based on the same design.

The v8's have a issue relating to the oil galleries in the piston's hence why most of them use oil between services and i know a lot of the ones sold around the Manawatu have been back to the dealership for engine repairs twice now and in the end Toyota are supplying brand new bottom ends with better designed pistons etc etc, dont know the exact problem down to the little details but i do know there is a problem.

They have a weak front diff centre aswell, im guessing its a 8in.?

And yea the Defender uses a German designed and made Ford Puma engine which is a sweet engine.

Thanks for that haydgq.. the mechanics I spoke to were in the manawatu area so that kind of confirms what I have found so far about the new toyota v8 motors... It's funny I was thinkin the same thing - a new straight 6 would have been more appropriate and easily would have equalled the V8 for torque etc...

I have a perkins motor in my daily driver and its just absolutely bulletproof, never misses a beat and has cost me next to nothing to maintain over the years (it has done about half a million km's so far...) - I think the ford puma engine followed on from this tried and true design...

[Landynut]

I am struggling to understand how you can be serious that your mate is going to base his decision to spend $70k on an a few peoples opinions from an internet forum. So far 39 people have voted!!!!!!

This suggests to me that there actually is no "mate" and you are, in fact, just trying to stir up the shit. Which leads me to my next question, are you male or female??

If there is indeed, a "mate", with $70k to splash out why doesn't go and take both cars for a decent test drive. Do a bit of research for himself and make his own decision. There are pros and cons for both vehicles and he really needs to decide for himself.

I am a Land Rover guy, I always have been and I always will be. It is in my blood but it is people like you who give the rest of us a bad name. Every single post you make on this forum doesn't need to state how superior LR vehicles are and how rubbish Jap ones are. Don't get me wrong everyone likes a bit of banter but you are just taking it too far! If you don't tone it down then everyone is going to think you are a complete tool! (most probably do by now anyway!)

By now I'm sure you are thinking of a witty reply to type. Don't bother fella as I wont be replying. Just tone it down and we can all get along...

no this was a legitimate request from someone spending the money, I fail to see where I have rubbished jappas except in jest, the aim was to entice people into giving their experience here to better help my friend make his decision (he has already test driven both, and liked them both)

it started out good, people giving sound advice, but soon turned into a pissing contest because obviously some people can't help themselves.

Here is what I have so far:

landcruiser:
more torque
higher fuel cost
cheaper maintenance & repair
higher kerb weight
more expensive initial outlay $
part-time 4wd
leaf-sprung harder ride

defender:
less torque
lower fuel cost
expensive repairs and maintenance
lower kerb weight
cheaper initial outlay $
full-time 4wd
coil-sprung smooth ride

both manufacturers offer very good warranties from brand new, and he's definately not interested in buying second hand..

My friend read this thread this morning and is absolutely disgusted by some of your attitudes, some of the responses on here were in no way provoked - just outright abuse.

you should take a look at yourselves those of you that offered nothing except cynical comments etc. try forming an intelligent opinion, giving actual facts, figures and advice, or just shut up and go away - you were never forced to post anything.

this thread was in no way intended to stir up anything at all - just genuinely interested in peoples ideas and advice...

there are certainly a few people on this forum I have no interest in knowing, not very friendly at all.... the majority however have been very forthcoming with info and advice, and I thank them greatly for their input.

[ice4x4]

Sorry I meant $70,000 for you to put into petrol and drive the series 3 around...

ah I c now I follow ya....

its not actually for me its for a mate

If I had 70 grand I would be putting an international 2.8 turbo diesel + lt85 5 speed gearbox in my series 3 and restoring it to the condition it was in when it rolled off the factory floor + a few flashy mods.....

imo toyotas can go suck a lemon (i.e. another toyota), p.o.s. jappa things....

Yes you are right it did start out well and people offered sound advice. The pissing contest started with the above comment posted by yourself.

I appreciate it was only said in jest but you must have realized that comment was going to stir it up. If not then for next time, a comment like that will bring back the responses posted. People are passionate about their trucks and will stick up for them.

[Landynut]

Sorry I meant $70,000 for you to put into petrol and drive the series 3 around...

ah I c now I follow ya....

its not actually for me its for a mate

If I had 70 grand I would be putting an international 2.8 turbo diesel + lt85 5 speed gearbox in my series 3 and restoring it to the condition it was in when it rolled off the factory floor + a few flashy mods.....

imo toyotas can go suck a lemon (i.e. another toyota), p.o.s. jappa things....

Yes you are right it did start out well and people offered sound advice. The pissing contest started with the above comment posted by yourself.

I appreciate it was only said in jest but you must have realized that comment was going to stir it up. If not then for next time, a comment like that will bring back the responses posted. People are passionate about their trucks and will stick up for them.

hence why I put at the start, imo i.e. "in my opinion"

look i've seen toyotas shit themselves time and time again, mostly surfs and the old diesel turb motors (2.4 / 2.5 turb diesel?) they were pretty unreliable, at a rough guess I've seen at least half a dozen or more of those alone crack the heads and spit the head gasket etc, thats just my experience and everyone is entitled to offer to own experience and opinion, it doesn't have to become a personal attack and/or abusive.

does that seem a fair and reasonable explanation?

[lilpigzuk]

[defender:
less torque
lower fuel cost
expensive repairs and maintenance
lower kerb weight
cheaper initial outlay $
full-time 4wd
coil-sprung smooth ride

.

its the same running gear as earlier Defenders (same brake discs as Discovery 1s), so wear and tear items are cheap as shit, any driveline failures would be covered under warrenty?? Where does the expensive bit come from?

[rotordogg]

...The v8's have a issue relating to the oil galleries in the piston's hence why most of them use oil between services and i know a lot of the ones sold around the Manawatu have been back to the dealership for engine repairs twice now and in the end Toyota are supplying brand new bottom ends with better designed pistons etc etc, dont know the exact problem down to the little details but i do know there is a problem...

Thanks for that haydgq.. the mechanics I spoke to were in the manawatu area so that kind of confirms what I have found so far about the new toyota v8 motors...

If they've been having to replace a bottom end's under warrenty, I'm guessing they've learnt from this and have improved the design in the factory, SO if your buying a brand-new truck, they'll have the re-designed bottom end in it already. Problem solved.

If I was gonna buy a new truck for towing (amongst other things) I wouldn't go for any Diesel engine less than 3.0L, Getting good figre's out of anything smaller is stressing it out to much...

[Landynut]

[defender:
less torque
lower fuel cost
expensive repairs and maintenance
lower kerb weight
cheaper initial outlay $
full-time 4wd
coil-sprung smooth ride

.

its the same running gear as earlier Defenders (same brake discs as Discovery 1s), so wear and tear items are cheap as shit, any driveline failures would be covered under warrenty?? Where does the expensive bit come from?

hmm I was fed some incorrect information there I see... I was told replacement parts were more expensive on the defender, and yes the 3 year warranty is unlimited km's and covers basically everything except wear items...

Cheers for that I will revise that information, you cant trust everything everyone says.... that is why this thread has been so helpful, even dealers will outright lie about their opposition if it sells a car...

[Landynut]

...The v8's have a issue relating to the oil galleries in the piston's hence why most of them use oil between services and i know a lot of the ones sold around the Manawatu have been back to the dealership for engine repairs twice now and in the end Toyota are supplying brand new bottom ends with better designed pistons etc etc, dont know the exact problem down to the little details but i do know there is a problem...

Thanks for that haydgq.. the mechanics I spoke to were in the manawatu area so that kind of confirms what I have found so far about the new toyota v8 motors...

If they've been having to replace a bottom end's under warrenty, I'm guessing they've learnt from this and have improved the design in the factory, SO if your buying a brand-new truck, they'll have the re-designed bottom end in it already. Problem solved.

If I was gonna buy a new truck for towing (amongst other things) I wouldn't go for any Diesel engine less than 3.0L, Getting good figre's out of anything smaller is stressing it out to much...

I couldn't agree more rotordogg, I think an engine has to be able to cope with the tasks it is set.... this truck will be used mostly for trips to town for supplies etc, just light loads throughout most of the year, only twice a year being used to cart heavy loads of wool, and occasionally a few sheep in the crate...

I would have thought with a smaller engine the balance of the year would make up for the fuel consumption of those heavier trips... whereas a bigger engine is going to use more fuel year-round? theres a fine line between being under-powered and over-kill isnt there.... it really is a hard decision to make...

[mudy1]

go skid

[NJV6]

I'd suggest your mate goes and drives them both then decides himself.

He will like one more than the other - either one it could be! A poll is not the right way to spend 70k. He has to be able to live with it and if the poll sais buy a LR but he doesn't like the driving position, its a rather costly balls up.

Drive them and then the decision will be much easier!

[Landynut]

I'd suggest your mate goes and drives them both then decides himself.

He will like one more than the other - either one it could be! A poll is not the right way to spend 70k. He has to be able to live with it and if the poll sais buy a LR but he doesn't like the driving position, its a rather costly balls up.

Drive them and then the decision will be much easier!

He has already driven em both and couldn't decide !

at the end of the day the poll was just sort of an indicator for popularity etc, and peoples opinions are important - all is taken into account because honestly its just a really hard decision, they are both great trucks...

I think it will come down to price, being able to order a defender ex-uk was something I wasn't aware of when I started this thread/poll so that has been extremely insightful looking into that.

also I haven't found out yet if toyota are able to provide something in a similar wheelbase to the defender 130 for the extra carrying capacity on the truck itself? the toyota dealer was most unhelpful, said he would have to look into it.........

[Heath]

Is it possible to get one of each and load it up with some bales to get an impression of what they are like loaded? Maybe even with a trailer on too. Real world test might show the sales brochure figures to be unreliable.

At the end of the day its feel through the seat in the pants that counts. The best wagon might not be the "best wagon".

[haydgq]

also I haven't found out yet if toyota are able to provide something in a similar wheelbase to the defender 130 for the extra carrying capacity on the truck itself? the toyota dealer was most unhelpful, said he would have to look into it....

.....[/quote]


Of course the dealer will have to look into it, Toyota NZ dont bring in anything longer than the standard 70 series flatdeck ute so the salesperson won't know if there is anything else available so will need to look into it for you.

If there is a longer version available in another world market Toyota won't bring a one off in anyway as they also wont be able to offer a warrenty and its a waste of there time, the market already dictates the length of wheelbase and tray needed for most uses and that's what you get.

If there is a longer version available in Japan, a Toyota dealer could organize a ex-demo or very low kms 2010 model to be brought into NZ under the Signature Class scheme eh.

But i think you find that is the longest wheelbase model around, but check all the Toyota websites around the world.

In my opinion he's way better getting the last of the 4.2 tdi engined 70 series then you can't go wrong, theres bound to be a near new low kms one floating around

[haydgq]

If they've been having to replace a bottom end's under warrenty, I'm guessing they've learnt from this and have improved the design in the factory, SO if your buying a brand-new truck, they'll have the re-designed bottom end in it already. Problem solved.

Yea you would think so wouldn't you, but don't assume anything esp with Toyota being the largest and wealthiest motor company in the world, that also gives them alot of money to waste fixing and repairing engines that should of had more testing before being released in the first place.

Toyota have had diesel engines problem's for years, the good ones are the 13b old school type engines which are made by Hino anyway and the 1ht series in the later 100 series and 70 series, the 12-24 valve engines in the 80 series have there issues and look at the 2lt- 1kzte 4 cyl diesels and there problems

Im a huge Toyota fan and we have owned Toyota dealerships in the north Island so i do love the brand but as some had said and also experienced that they also have there problems just like any other manufacture.

By the way i've just heard that Nissan are releasing the Narvara into the NZ market with the TDI Reno v6 with 550nm.!!!

[Landynut]

If they've been having to replace a bottom end's under warrenty, I'm guessing they've learnt from this and have improved the design in the factory, SO if your buying a brand-new truck, they'll have the re-designed bottom end in it already. Problem solved.

Yea you would think so wouldn't you, but don't assume anything esp with Toyota being the largest and wealthiest motor company in the world, that also gives them alot of money to waste fixing and repairing engines that should of had more testing before being released in the first place.

Toyota have had diesel engines problem's for years, the good ones are the 13b old school type engines which are made by Hino anyway and the 1ht series in the later 100 series and 70 series, the 12-24 valve engines in the 80 series have there issues and look at the 2lt- 1kzte 4 cyl diesels and there problems

Im a huge Toyota fan and we have owned Toyota dealerships in the north Island so i do love the brand but as some had said and also experienced that they also have there problems just like any other manufacture.

By the way i've just heard that Nissan are releasing the Narvara into the NZ market with the TDI Reno v6 with 550nm.!!!

I had actually mentioned the nissan navara to him briefly as another option, good reliable trucks - the defence force use them now for civi roles because the holden rodeos lasted about 2 minutes in east timor

is that a V6 diesel ? 550nm !!!

[haydgq]

I had actually mentioned the nissan navara to him briefly as another option, good reliable trucks - the defence force use them now for civi roles because the holden rodeos lasted about 2 minutes in east timor

is that a V6 diesel ? 550nm !!![/quote]

Yip its gona be a beast http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... CF00124116

[haydgq]

I had actually mentioned the nissan navara to him briefly as another option, good reliable trucks - the defence force use them now for civi roles because the holden rodeos lasted about 2 minutes in east timor

is that a V6 diesel ? 550nm !!!

Yip its gona be a beast http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... CF00124116[/quote]


And NZ news about it http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/- ... ter/122/1/

[MikeL200]

I had actually mentioned the nissan navara to him briefly as another option, good reliable trucks - the defence force use them now for civi roles because the holden rodeos lasted about 2 minutes in east timor

The Army is now starting to get Mitsubishi Tritons, not sure if they are the replacement for the Navara or as an alternative.

[Heath]

I wouldnt use the defence force aquisitions as a guide at the moment.

The cuts in spending means they will buying whatever cheap deals they can get, besides look at their past purchases that have been dogs (LAV's, LOV's, Pinz,Charles Upham oh and selling the old unimogs too). They dont have to drive them just supply wheels to carry troops and to be honest some of the crap we have been supplied has to be seen to be believed. Its what happens when accountants have more power than the front line troops - the pen is mightier than the sword.

Sorry for the off topic ramble but I'd do my own homework and not rely on Govt depts at the moment.

[Landynut]

I wouldnt use the defence force aquisitions as a guide at the moment.

The cuts in spending means they will buying whatever cheap deals they can get, besides look at their past purchases that have been dogs (LAV's, LOV's, Pinz,Charles Upham oh and selling the old unimogs too). They dont have to drive them just supply wheels to carry troops and to be honest some of the crap we have been supplied has to be seen to be believed. Its what happens when accountants have more power than the front line troops - the pen is mightier than the sword.

Sorry for the off topic ramble but I'd do my own homework and not rely on Govt depts at the moment.

I dont mind the off-topic stuff its almost always worth a read

fully agree with ya on that too... LAV's = worst money ever spent, thanks aunty helen, oh and thanks for scrapping the strike wing too. I feel totally secure in our tiny little isolated island in the south pacific with no air force, very little armour, no real navy to speak of and a military spending budget miniscule in comparison to most third world countries . . .

you will forgive me when I begin stockpiling .308 ammunition... oh wait, I already have

[mylux]

Get a mans truck. LN106 4 X 4 Flatdeck. Nuff Said.

[Jerry]

could also see if Nissan could bring in a Flatdeck patrol from aus? or import one?, maybe another option?

[bruntonjm]

Get a mans truck. LN106 4 X 4 Flatdeck. Nuff Said.

X2

[Landynut]

Get a mans truck. LN106 4 X 4 Flatdeck. Nuff Said.

X2

mylux/brunton - by LN106 I take it you mean this? :

latest model hilux: http://www.toyota.co.nz/NewVehicles/Models/Commercial/Hilux+4WD/TDi+2+Door+Single+Cab/3.0L/Manual/Tech+Spec/Dimensions.htm

[gimmemud]

I think you'll find ln106 is the last of the solid front hiluxes. around '97 at the end i think. You can get the new cruiser's and patrols lengthened and another lazy axle put in under factory warranty over here in aus. MASSIVE deck size

[bruntonjm]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 889534.htm