Currently own a 2.4 Turbo '89 Surf. Completely and utterly gutless however have never had another problem with it. Was going to upgrade and buy a 96 Surf 3l - more power, more comfortable, doesn't have back window problem.
This decision was made after about 3 weeks. Now as I am getting nearer buy time, I don't know if it is the answer for the offroading - possibly more designed for onroad.
Have recently joined a 4x4 club and intend on using a 4x4 properly. Living in Canterbury it needs to be able to handle rivers, and rocky beds.
So now i am in a quandry - What about upgrading the 89 Surf - new motor, raise kit etc? Is it worth doing this too? Nothing wrong with current motor except its gutless especially when towing the boat. I not offay with terminology but believe my suspension is preferred for off-roading than the new ones coming out.
What should I be looking for - maybe a landcruiser? Can get a bit pricey. I need tough, tough, power, tough, reliable.
Help. What to do? I can go up to $10,000 however anything less than this would be preferred as there are bound to be other things required once bought eg tyres etc.
Any and all advice welcome. HELP PLEASE
Help please - need advice
surf
Hi can understand you problem , but any truck you get in the end need mods to run better offroad, This is a major part of offroading the more runs you do the more thing you find could be changed just work at a slow pace that can be afforded a bit at a time. the more fun you will have with it
Hey I agree. Every hobby I have ever had always gets wildly out of control - there is always something else that you must have!!!
This is more of a question of what is a sensible starting place? There is no point doing anything with the '89 if people say everything on it would need replacing. I want to know the vehicle that is going to need minimum adjustments in the short term, if the '89 idea is a dud.
With the '89 I am saying replace the engine which isn't a small easy feat really - there are plenty of vehicles with good engines in them just not my lethagic beast!! IS this step worth taking or is there something else I should start with.
This is more of a question of what is a sensible starting place? There is no point doing anything with the '89 if people say everything on it would need replacing. I want to know the vehicle that is going to need minimum adjustments in the short term, if the '89 idea is a dud.
With the '89 I am saying replace the engine which isn't a small easy feat really - there are plenty of vehicles with good engines in them just not my lethagic beast!! IS this step worth taking or is there something else I should start with.
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Rotazuk
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 937
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Yeh they seem to go for a bit over $10g
this is one on t-me wanting $11g ono . Can't quite see from the pic'sf its coily or not I guess is it would be . Someone that knows about these will soon pipe up .
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... key=342721
Chris
this is one on t-me wanting $11g ono . Can't quite see from the pic'sf its coily or not I guess is it would be . Someone that knows about these will soon pipe up .
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... key=342721
Chris
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Rotazuk
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 937
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Auckland - New Zealand
- Contact:
Not sure when they changed . I would like to think that any 3.0 diesel would be coil etc but my bro inlaw had a 2.4 coily , but it was a 95 and swb . If you find the surf underpowered I would not get a 2.4 prado . Maybe wait a little while longer and get the 3.0 then . I believe they can take 33 inch wheels stock , need to confirm this thou . So a good wagon . Never had one , but if I lost my current wagon i would look at these really hard . They can have issues with the electric 4wd engagement but believe this can be swapped back to a manual system . Was some posts on here about it ( but did not read in detail as I did not have on etc ) .
Cheers
Chris
Cheers
Chris
They are half hilux so the weight should not change much, did you want the LWB, 7/8 seats and doors and glass make weight.
A good truck imho the 3 litre being the first 4 cyl diesel that Toyota got
right power wise. The earlier ones, the 70 shape, don't artic as well and can rust bad below headlights etc and only have the 2.4 boat anchor.
J Top
A good truck imho the 3 litre being the first 4 cyl diesel that Toyota got
right power wise. The earlier ones, the 70 shape, don't artic as well and can rust bad below headlights etc and only have the 2.4 boat anchor.
J Top
If your going to get serious with your off roading then stick with a hilux. with your engine, is it poked or just underpowered? the good thing about hiluxs is that there a quite a few different diff ratios available, which will help with the power issue. The only thing with changing ratios is that every gain you make down low will cost you in top end, which isn't to much of an issue provided you don't want to race round at 150kms an hour 
The other good thing about hiluxs is that almost every concievable upgrade has been done, and with a bit of surfing you'll be able to find details on how it was done, and more often than not be able to buy upgrades off the shelf. You want to try and stay away from the IFS version as they don't "work" as well as the leaf spring setup. Supralux(Steve)would be a good man to talk to. He owns 4WD Stuff in Rangiora and would be full of advice for you, it would only be your $$$ that stop you from having an awesome off road machine. Although for 10k you can get a fair bit done.
The other good thing about hiluxs is that almost every concievable upgrade has been done, and with a bit of surfing you'll be able to find details on how it was done, and more often than not be able to buy upgrades off the shelf. You want to try and stay away from the IFS version as they don't "work" as well as the leaf spring setup. Supralux(Steve)would be a good man to talk to. He owns 4WD Stuff in Rangiora and would be full of advice for you, it would only be your $$$ that stop you from having an awesome off road machine. Although for 10k you can get a fair bit done.***Got the balls, just ain't got the bucks***
if you have an 89 surf you have independant front suspension. im assuming its the older ln61 shape in which case you have leaf springs in the back. i have a 91 surf (newer shape stil ifs in the front but coils in the bac) for 10grand you can set one of these up prity well. go for the 3L diesel do spring lift body lift 33 inch muds longer shocks and lokkas and you will have a pritty capable truck even with the ifs and you should be able to get it all done for less than 10 grand. unless you want a hilux or want to spend more on a prado then this is what i would do. surfs are cheap, you get alot for your money. if you are worried about he ifs then i thinks its about 3-4 grand for steve to chop it off and put in solid axel, then you will have a weapon.
My thoughts:
Independent front suspension (IFS) Surfs have a weak front diff & are not suitable for making into a big (or even medium) tyred off roader.
The early model Beam axle, 3.0 turbo diesel Prados are a good rig with all the ingredients of a proper 4x4 & heaps of room to upgrade. There are plenty around, both LWB & SWB for well under $10K. The later IFS Prados suffer from the same weak diff as the Surfs.
Patrol/Safaris are also a good tough rig with pretty indestructable running gear & motors, a bit bigger & heavier but that can sometimes be an advantage in those south is rivers. Many have a factory PTO winch & rear diff locker too.
Cheers
Clint
Independent front suspension (IFS) Surfs have a weak front diff & are not suitable for making into a big (or even medium) tyred off roader.
The early model Beam axle, 3.0 turbo diesel Prados are a good rig with all the ingredients of a proper 4x4 & heaps of room to upgrade. There are plenty around, both LWB & SWB for well under $10K. The later IFS Prados suffer from the same weak diff as the Surfs.
Patrol/Safaris are also a good tough rig with pretty indestructable running gear & motors, a bit bigger & heavier but that can sometimes be an advantage in those south is rivers. Many have a factory PTO winch & rear diff locker too.
Cheers
Clint
UZJ71 Landcruiser
Jeep J20 - 1UZ-FE powered (part owner)
KTM 640
If it breaks, build it stronger.
If it doesn't break, drive it harder.
Jeep J20 - 1UZ-FE powered (part owner)
KTM 640
If it breaks, build it stronger.
If it doesn't break, drive it harder.
Don't laugh, I know you all will but I can stand the heat. Thought of a terrano 
Same wheelbase length as a SWB safari 
. 1/2 pace narrower then a surf/hilux ( good for tight corners high up on mountains) 
, same rear axle as a safari , good powerful towing motors , comfy inside . Can modify, but like anything it costs $$$$ 
. Only downfall I fnd is the placement of the alternator on my V6 and steerng gear wear/damage . I cane mine though 
. Going to do the sold axle thing in the future, when the handbrake goes back to work 
. Food for thought....
Al
Same wheelbase length as a SWB safari . 1/2 pace narrower then a surf/hilux ( good for tight corners high up on mountains) , same rear axle as a safari , good powerful towing motors , comfy inside . Can modify, but like anything it costs $$$$ . Only downfall I fnd is the placement of the alternator on my V6 and steerng gear wear/damage . I cane mine though . Going to do the sold axle thing in the future, when the handbrake goes back to work . Food for thought....
Al
rain, hail, sleet or snow, we go!
All excellent thoughts and I thank you for them. I am not laughing Al as I agree there is nothing wrong with the older terranos - I do think Nissans are slightly more expensive to fix/repair than Toyotas but have no facts on that.
I will try and talk to Steve as he sounds like just the guy to give me some insight into the inner workings of these hiluxs/surfs.
I am seeing the overal thought is I don't want IFS, which a lot of trucks seem to have. Don't really want to go through the cost of replacing to a fixed beam axle either.
Big Feet aren't a problem as I have a mate that is a Firestone Manager and he will always look after me when it comes to that side of things.
Landcruiser - yes I get the impression they are built like a sherman tank. I was warming to them until talked to a mate today who made 2 comments which maybe others will have thoughts on:
1 The 3L maybe underpowered for a big vehicle like they are
2 He blew his 4.2L engine and cost him $7000 for a recon one. That is a lot more than I ever thought - as only landcruiser I could afford would be one with reasonable Ks like the one I linked to earlier - to change the motor I could buy a whole new vehicle.
Not too sure on the whole LWB vs SWB really. I like the idea of the LWB as they are pratical for the dog and gear (and maybe the Mrs). Plus you can sleep in the back quite happily which I have done several times in my Hilux.
I will try and talk to Steve as he sounds like just the guy to give me some insight into the inner workings of these hiluxs/surfs.
I am seeing the overal thought is I don't want IFS, which a lot of trucks seem to have. Don't really want to go through the cost of replacing to a fixed beam axle either.
Big Feet aren't a problem as I have a mate that is a Firestone Manager and he will always look after me when it comes to that side of things.
Landcruiser - yes I get the impression they are built like a sherman tank. I was warming to them until talked to a mate today who made 2 comments which maybe others will have thoughts on:
1 The 3L maybe underpowered for a big vehicle like they are
2 He blew his 4.2L engine and cost him $7000 for a recon one. That is a lot more than I ever thought - as only landcruiser I could afford would be one with reasonable Ks like the one I linked to earlier - to change the motor I could buy a whole new vehicle.
Not too sure on the whole LWB vs SWB really. I like the idea of the LWB as they are pratical for the dog and gear (and maybe the Mrs). Plus you can sleep in the back quite happily which I have done several times in my Hilux.
Don't be thinking the 3litre diesel is underpowered man.
I challange you to show me a more snotty 4cyl FACTORY SPEC diesel off the line.
I have a 3ltr turbo intercooled prado which tows my 2 tonne plus surf like its not even there. I also have a 4.0ltr non turbo diesel 60 series crusier that is a giant pig. (hence it has been now retired until i have time to build it into something usefull).
I don't know where everyone gets the idea that if it says Landcruiser, it must be a giant, heavy rig. Apart from 60 series and 80 series crusiers, most of the 70's and 40s' are the same or lighter than a surf, terrano etc.
The bit that shags them up for really serious 4wd work (I don't mean hard club trips, but real hard arsed shit) is the fact that all leaf sprung jobs are spring under axle. This is just more shit that hangs down low to get you hung up.
IN MY OPINION:-
A decent build platform truck to start with will have beam axles (wipes out all mitsi, mazda, and almost all new 4wd's,) be Spring over axle ( Early surf or Hilux)or coil sprung (GQ Patrol, 78 series crusier, 80 series crsuier, range rover, landy 110 etc) have a good name for build quality so you can grow into breaking it, rather than break it from the start (My opinion only this one, Build strength rules out landrover product, I know they can be built strong, they just aren't strong as std). If towing etc is not important and you don't mind a choppy ride, you can't rule out SJ suzukis either. I am sure there are other 4wds, but you have limited yourself to a budget.
Engine preference to me comes down the list, because repowering is realatively easy compared to trying to fully build a suspension system that works for you.
Sure IFS is a shit setup, but it is still better than no 4wd at all, so my advice is don't do anything for a bit and get out and use the truck you already have with others, and see what sort fo 4wding you want to get into. (winch challenge style, trialing, rock crawling, adventure trucking, tag alongs, or just going on all the varied forms of club trips, which is how many of us started any way)
Most of all man.... enjoy
Thats what it is all about.
I challange you to show me a more snotty 4cyl FACTORY SPEC diesel off the line.
I have a 3ltr turbo intercooled prado which tows my 2 tonne plus surf like its not even there. I also have a 4.0ltr non turbo diesel 60 series crusier that is a giant pig. (hence it has been now retired until i have time to build it into something usefull).
I don't know where everyone gets the idea that if it says Landcruiser, it must be a giant, heavy rig. Apart from 60 series and 80 series crusiers, most of the 70's and 40s' are the same or lighter than a surf, terrano etc.
The bit that shags them up for really serious 4wd work (I don't mean hard club trips, but real hard arsed shit) is the fact that all leaf sprung jobs are spring under axle. This is just more shit that hangs down low to get you hung up.
IN MY OPINION:-
A decent build platform truck to start with will have beam axles (wipes out all mitsi, mazda, and almost all new 4wd's,) be Spring over axle ( Early surf or Hilux)or coil sprung (GQ Patrol, 78 series crusier, 80 series crsuier, range rover, landy 110 etc) have a good name for build quality so you can grow into breaking it, rather than break it from the start (My opinion only this one, Build strength rules out landrover product, I know they can be built strong, they just aren't strong as std). If towing etc is not important and you don't mind a choppy ride, you can't rule out SJ suzukis either. I am sure there are other 4wds, but you have limited yourself to a budget.
Engine preference to me comes down the list, because repowering is realatively easy compared to trying to fully build a suspension system that works for you.
Sure IFS is a shit setup, but it is still better than no 4wd at all, so my advice is don't do anything for a bit and get out and use the truck you already have with others, and see what sort fo 4wding you want to get into. (winch challenge style, trialing, rock crawling, adventure trucking, tag alongs, or just going on all the varied forms of club trips, which is how many of us started any way)
Most of all man.... enjoy
Thats what it is all about.Ugly is a state of mind..... and the state of my truck!
Great thank you for your thoughts. Quite frustrating that it is all the older vehicles that are the better, as parts etc start going up in price as the years get older but thats just the way it goes I guess.
Yes half of me is thinking that I will just use my vehicle like it is - but it is so gutless. Sure Low ratio it might be able to take it but anything else and it almost goes backwards. I am also a bit worried that if anything were to happen to it then it really wouldn't be worth a damned thing which wouldn't help me get into a vehicle I should be starting with.
Oh if only money was no object, then life would be simply.........
Yes half of me is thinking that I will just use my vehicle like it is - but it is so gutless. Sure Low ratio it might be able to take it but anything else and it almost goes backwards. I am also a bit worried that if anything were to happen to it then it really wouldn't be worth a damned thing which wouldn't help me get into a vehicle I should be starting with.
Oh if only money was no object, then life would be simply.........
rokhound wrote:I have a 3ltr turbo intercooled prado which tows my 2 tonne plus surf like its not even there. I also have a 4.0ltr non turbo diesel 60 series crusier that is a giant pig. (hence it has been now retired until i have time to build it into something usefull).
I don't know where everyone gets the idea that if it says Landcruiser, it must be a giant, heavy rig. Apart from 60 series and 80 series crusiers, most of the 70's and 40s' are the same or lighter than a surf, terrano etc.
Jeeeez, i'd almost think you had a wee thing for cruisers there Roc
Don't worry i wont tell anyone
Of course being the proud owner of a MWB 70 series shows my bias
With the standard 3.4 diesel on 35" tyres it still goes well so they cant be that heavy ***Got the balls, just ain't got the bucks***
SWB Safari.
Dixie picked a good one up a week or so ago for $4300. There's plenty of second hand engines around for the for about $2000, BUT THEY WILL DO OVER 400,000K'S needing no more than a injector pump rebuild.
They are a great truck straight of the yard, you won't need todo anything straight off to keep up with the club guys
If your looking at a hilux farm ute, factor in a engine swap and body lift and leaf swap.
If your looking at a Surf, don't waste your time, the front diffs are SHIT, get a Terrano with the TD27 Diesel. Still IFS, but the strongest diff of all of the IFS vehicles(same diff as in the front of a Safari in a lighter vehicle).
Prado's and Cruisers. Well, they are good, BUT, the coiled Prado has pisspoor articulation from Standard even with the sway bars off. To upgrade the suspension is a mission as front shocks are a of the "mix and match and make your own" variety and the drive shafts don't have high angle universals. The 2.4 Turbos are time bombs even if looked after,and the 3L Turbos, well, ask WJW, they are basically a highly stressed engine that are not designed with longevity in mind.
If i was going to gat a Cruiser i would go for one of the MWB fiber glass top ones with the 4cycl 3.4 Turbo. Seem to be very robust. Leaves though, so not my pick..
So if you want a strong, reliable, well built, longlasting, heavy duty 4x4 that was built for off road, and ready to go straight off the yard, with plenty of scope for EASY and CHEAP mods that make you go further(rather than spending $$ on engine swaps and hacking out spring perches and SAS) then look at the Safari of the Terrano, or the Prado if you wanna fit in the with the Toyota boys down south
Dixie picked a good one up a week or so ago for $4300. There's plenty of second hand engines around for the for about $2000, BUT THEY WILL DO OVER 400,000K'S needing no more than a injector pump rebuild.
They are a great truck straight of the yard, you won't need todo anything straight off to keep up with the club guys
If your looking at a hilux farm ute, factor in a engine swap and body lift and leaf swap.
If your looking at a Surf, don't waste your time, the front diffs are SHIT, get a Terrano with the TD27 Diesel. Still IFS, but the strongest diff of all of the IFS vehicles(same diff as in the front of a Safari in a lighter vehicle).
Prado's and Cruisers. Well, they are good, BUT, the coiled Prado has pisspoor articulation from Standard even with the sway bars off. To upgrade the suspension is a mission as front shocks are a of the "mix and match and make your own" variety and the drive shafts don't have high angle universals. The 2.4 Turbos are time bombs even if looked after,and the 3L Turbos, well, ask WJW, they are basically a highly stressed engine that are not designed with longevity in mind.
If i was going to gat a Cruiser i would go for one of the MWB fiber glass top ones with the 4cycl 3.4 Turbo. Seem to be very robust. Leaves though, so not my pick..
So if you want a strong, reliable, well built, longlasting, heavy duty 4x4 that was built for off road, and ready to go straight off the yard, with plenty of scope for EASY and CHEAP mods that make you go further(rather than spending $$ on engine swaps and hacking out spring perches and SAS) then look at the Safari of the Terrano, or the Prado if you wanna fit in the with the Toyota boys down south
lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??
DieselBoy wrote:Prado's and Cruisers. Well, they are good, BUT, the coiled Prado has pisspoor articulation from Standard even with the sway bars off. To upgrade the suspension is a mission as front shocks are a of the "mix and match and make your own" variety
Eh? No doubt that the standard front suspension travel is crap on the LJ7*'s - it's mainly just the shocks limiting the travel - but I just got 4 different quotes for new 50mm lift springs & shocks all round & nobody told me to go & make my own. To get Rancho 9000's there was an extra $50 charge as they were a special though.
Cheers
Clint
UZJ71 Landcruiser
Jeep J20 - 1UZ-FE powered (part owner)
KTM 640
If it breaks, build it stronger.
If it doesn't break, drive it harder.
Jeep J20 - 1UZ-FE powered (part owner)
KTM 640
If it breaks, build it stronger.
If it doesn't break, drive it harder.
Eh? No doubt that the standard front suspension travel is crap on the LJ7*'s - it's mainly just the shocks limiting the travel - but I just got 4 different quotes for new 50mm lift springs & shocks all round & nobody told me to go & make my own. To get Rancho 9000's there was an extra $50 charge as they were a special though.
Unless you modify the shock towers or make adapters..
-----------------------
Who knew Prados could fly?
Who knew Prados could fly?
Duke3d,Hi I think all the advice here is pretty much spot on. My thoughts are to go to your club meetings, get out on training days and keep your eyes and ears open, you will pick up all sorts of information and idears and then find what best suits your situation and finances. Don't make to much of a plan for it will change as you go along , but as for any building if the foundation is not wright it will cost you extra in the end .
This typing is for girls why not give me a call only to pleased to have a chat with you 033387202 on pm shift this week so home during the day.
Come out to Sheffield on Sunday and catch up with ORE members make yourself known you will then go home in a real Head Spin with all the what - what not to do . Mine is the Red 70# cruiser with FALSGRAVE AUTO SPARES in yellow sign writing on it , please say Hi or if no one in the navigators seat and your life insurance is paid up jump in . Open offer to any members, bring your Helmet and your welcome to do a section, all care and no responsability.
GET DIRTY , FITZY.
This typing is for girls why not give me a call only to pleased to have a chat with you 033387202 on pm shift this week so home during the day.
Come out to Sheffield on Sunday and catch up with ORE members make yourself known you will then go home in a real Head Spin with all the what - what not to do . Mine is the Red 70# cruiser with FALSGRAVE AUTO SPARES in yellow sign writing on it , please say Hi or if no one in the navigators seat and your life insurance is paid up jump in . Open offer to any members, bring your Helmet and your welcome to do a section, all care and no responsability.
GET DIRTY , FITZY.
Rangielux wrote:Dieselboy I think we are starting to get the picturefrom this thread and another thread lately, you like your Safari
Heh heh, the Toyota Clan has been getting a bit unruly on here the last few weeks, so i have been doing my bit lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??
