PTO driven hydrulic winch install to Prado...

[Heath]

What about a little radiator with an auto cooler in the base and a fan for cooling? I guess its another thing to find space for...

Great build though.

[markr]

Pumps rated at 65lpm at 2500psi
I only need 50 to 60lpm at 1500-2000psi or less if I want to winch slower.

im suprised that you were reccomended only 12ltrs. only as it was calcuated by an "expert" that i'd best run a 20ltr tank for my front and rear hydro steering. I run about 10ltrs as im short on space and it gets pretty warm just with my steering.

what flow rate is your pump spec'd for at rated rpm and what pressure? just have an interest for a project...

[markr]

Update.

Proline are building the oil tank this week with baffles in it. Yes the holes in the baffles will be large enought to allow for the flow rate. The pump should empty the tank out every 10 seconds... size is estimated at around 17l. Only filling it will tell. 3mm alloy...

Looks like Pirtek are doing the plumbing... Just need to make sure it's double braided and he knows the hoses need to get up under the body ASAP so thay don't get in the way of branches or rock etc....

Also hit a problem. I welded extra support to the pump mount. NOW it doesn't align correctly. DAME YOU HEAT.. Ow well should'nt take too much to fix... I should have left it alone... but you can never over engineer...

So off to the the parts shop this weekend to get a temperature gauge to plug into the oil tank.

Would love to install a presure guage as well...
Will talk to Pirtex about that.

You can never have enough gauges or levers...

MMMM I should have got sponsors before starting this project.
It's not for the faint hearted....

[Madaz]

The best way to find out how hot it gets will be just to try it, the gear ratio on your winch may help out quite a bit too.
I run 40l of oil, and a standard superwinch - at one of the Laurie Sanson fun rallys a couple of years ago I ended up recovering 15+ trucks from one of the bog runs, one after another, was basically winching truck after truck for a hour and a half, mininium of a 30m winch-
The temp gauge i have starts at 40deg, after a hour it had got up to about 70deg+, what i found interesting though, was that after we finished, it took around 5 hours to cool back down under 40deg again.
As a side note, i have a cooled hooked up, which is just a subaru legacy intercooler and pump set up, by running that, even with the truck stationary, it can get that same temp drop in around half a hour.

[mudlva]

i would susgest preasure gauge over temp reach over and fell the velve block inlet hose it will tell you everything that you will need to know when water bubbles off the block then it is proberly getting to hot.
preasure is another story tho

with the motor doing 2g and the gear box and pto flying you cant hear what the pump is doing
i broke a lot of gear, rope, pullys and fairleads before i installed a preasure guage kicking myself that i didnt do it earlier

this way you can very the control valve with engine rpm to together to keep the preasure at a constant rate

i own a mini skidsteer loader a specialise in doing hole boreing for domestic lifts in very tight spaces and areas you will be able to smell the hydralics when it starting to get hot.

i'm concerned that the oil reserve is in the engine bay this may be a down fall as the bay gets extremely hot even when draging the beast thru a bog hole with mud etc all around the place.
could you not mount the tank in the rear of the cabin or some where similar?

also that nylon drive unit will it be able to cope with the amount of movement and rocking the will happen with the motor and gearbox twisting in differant directions to the chassis?

a mate of mine susgested maybe fitting a steel sleave or tubing over the nylon as this will help stop the block from spliting. neather of us thought the the nylon would sheer as that stuff is very strong in that sence

i have mounted my pump with a small drive shaft u'js and slip sleeve to allow for the 8's movement

keep up the good work

with you all the way

[IcedJohnno]

.

i'm concerned that the oil reserve is in the engine bay this may be a down fall as the bay gets extremely hot even when draging the beast thru a bog hole with mud etc all around the place.
could you not mount the tank in the rear of the cabin or some where similar?


keep up the good work

with you all the way

My -71 has a lot of space underneath the floor where the rear seats are. I have always thought of mid mounting a winch here. I would put a hatch thru the floor for access and have the oil reservoir there.

Great for cooling the oil tank in rivers too! Well maybe... You will have a better weight balance too.
With the longer suction hose you may need to go up a size or two
Awesome stuff keen to see more pics and more of how it all goes.

Hmm... alloy yank will suffer from fatigue cracks WAY sooner than a good old steel one. In comparison to the weight of the oil, 0.7 x number of litres, the tank in steel at 3 x the weight of alloy, would be my recommendation.

What's the base winch worth? Dare I ask....

[markr]

Thanks for your suggestions. There is no movment in the joint. As the mount bolts to the transfer case.. .So the pump moves with the PTO... Also the Tank is going to get some air from the radiator fan. So this may help...

i would susgest preasure gauge over temp reach over and fell the velve block inlet hose it will tell you everything that you will need to know when water bubbles off the block then it is proberly getting to hot.
preasure is another story tho

with the motor doing 2g and the gear box and pto flying you cant hear what the pump is doing
i broke a lot of gear, rope, pullys and fairleads before i installed a preasure guage kicking myself that i didnt do it earlier

this way you can very the control valve with engine rpm to together to keep the preasure at a constant rate

i own a mini skidsteer loader a specialise in doing hole boreing for domestic lifts in very tight spaces and areas you will be able to smell the hydralics when it starting to get hot.

i'm concerned that the oil reserve is in the engine bay this may be a down fall as the bay gets extremely hot even when draging the beast thru a bog hole with mud etc all around the place.
could you not mount the tank in the rear of the cabin or some where similar?

also that nylon drive unit will it be able to cope with the amount of movement and rocking the will happen with the motor and gearbox twisting in differant directions to the chassis?

a mate of mine susgested maybe fitting a steel sleave or tubing over the nylon as this will help stop the block from spliting. neather of us thought the the nylon would sheer as that stuff is very strong in that sence

i have mounted my pump with a small drive shaft u'js and slip sleeve to allow for the 8's movement

keep up the good work

with you all the way

[mudlva]

are i knew there would of been a cunning plan as that bracket did look quite odd with the angles etc

im guessing that the tank is some where near where the batteries are then ,,,
so,,,
if the truck is nose down will there be enough "fall" so that the oil can get to the pump?

im just thinking of when i winch into a big ass bog or thru a decent hole how the nose can at times dissapear down wards will the oil be able to get to the pump if you know what i mean

[markr]

Yep thought of that. The pickup is in the middle of the tank.

What ever angle it's on will be fine.

How ever. I didn't allow for the truck being on its roof.. Then again, I gon't think the engine would be going anyway....

are i knew there would of been a cunning plan as that bracket did look quite odd with the angles etc

im guessing that the tank is some where near where the batteries are then ,,,
so,,,
if the truck is nose down will there be enough "fall" so that the oil can get to the pump?

im just thinking of when i winch into a big ass bog or thru a decent hole how the nose can at times dissapear down wards will the oil be able to get to the pump if you know what i mean

[markr]

Part 3

Well the system was plumbed up today. I also installed pressure guage for monitoring the state of the system. Pirtex did a nice job.

The oil tank only held 14 litres. A tittle disapointing but is more than recommended.

Testing.

It worked. Set presure release valve to 1530 psi.

After winching in 30m of rope the oil temp was around 50c.
Disapointing... I well either need to increase oil holding capacity or place an oil cooler in the return line somewere....

Will do some reserch and let you know what the outcome will be.

The good news is that it winches in 1 gear with idle up... approx 1200 engine rpm, It's slow but I have the option of fine control.

5th gear with Idle up.. Approx 1200 engin rpm, winch speed is still OK...
5th gear at 2500 engin rpm looks close to 10m per min on the 4th layer of rope... Not bad.. A lot faster than the electric winch under load.

Cont... Part 4

[markr]

What pump did you use.. I'm looking at installing a radiator now...

Note:

It seems I may have over powered the pump while testing for the first time.
I was at 2500 rpm and I should have been at 2000. The extra wasted HP would have generated a lot of extra heat.

After re-testing yesterday, the tank/oil was only slightly warm..
(Good News)
Still will look at cooling the oil..

The best way to find out how hot it gets will be just to try it, the gear ratio on your winch may help out quite a bit too.
I run 40l of oil, and a standard superwinch - at one of the Laurie Sanson fun rallys a couple of years ago I ended up recovering 15+ trucks from one of the bog runs, one after another, was basically winching truck after truck for a hour and a half, mininium of a 30m winch-
The temp gauge i have starts at 40deg, after a hour it had got up to about 70deg+, what i found interesting though, was that after we finished, it took around 5 hours to cool back down under 40deg again.
As a side note, i have a cooled hooked up, which is just a subaru legacy intercooler and pump set up, by running that, even with the truck stationary, it can get that same temp drop in around half a hour.

[markr]

UPDATE

Spent the day up the Mungatuks last weekend and had no problems with the Winch oil overheating. It didn't even come up to operating temperature. Maxed out at 54 degs....

So no cooling needed.. (I'm a happy man.)

The hardest winch of the day only used 300- 500 psi of pressure.. Not even working hard....

Catch you all on the track.

Mark

[Big]

I have to say this means nothing without PICS..
Give us some photo's so we can see what you've done.. This is very interesting what you have done..cheers K

[philipw]

Very good post and good work, can you tell me what brand of winch and pump that you used please.

Phil

[darinz]

I'd be interested to know what size hoses you are using and was is the control valve?
The key to heat is removing restiction in the lines and for mine there is talk of 1"+ hoses on it and a full bypass valve which aparently works backwards to normal valves?

Also have you worked out how much power is going through that nylon coupler? The flow and pressure you are talking is alot of HP so I check what the coupler can handle before you really need the winch to recover you. ie I'd guess your winch would take around 30hp+ to run at pressure.

[markr]

I use 3/4" for the oil pickup. (Suction Side)
1/2 for the presure side. No use going larger than the connections into the pump and valve body. The hose are only short so it helps to reduce friction hence heat.

Those nylon cuplings are very strong, BUT I do carry a spare one...

Have no idea of HP. But I don't use the pump to it's max ad I wanted to produce the required pressure and flow at lower revs...

[MNC]

...MMMM I should have got sponsors before starting this project.
It's not for the faint hearted....

Have really enjoyed reading this thread.

I had been keen on a pto driven hydrylic winch set up but I think your comment above has confirmed what I expected... Looks like I will be sticking with a standard PTO setup.

Thanks for the info.

PS. keen to see a short vid of this winch in action

[markr]

...MMMM I should have got sponsors before starting this project.
It's not for the faint hearted....

Have really enjoyed reading this thread.

I had been keen on a pto driven hydrylic winch set up but I think your comment above has confirmed what I expected... Looks like I will be sticking with a standard PTO setup.

Thanks for the info.

PS. keen to see a short vid of this winch in action

I'll try and get one next time I'm out....

[Big]

Out of curiousity.. whats it cost to get it to where you have now.. As a mate and I have had in deapth disscussions about the pros and cons of Hydrolic vers electric,PTO etc.. We were even contemplating a Hydrostatic setup too.. but settle for simplicity and ease of a PTO..lol

[markr]

Out of curiousity.. whats it cost to get it to where you have now.. As a mate and I have had in deapth disscussions about the pros and cons of Hydrolic vers electric,PTO etc.. We were even contemplating a Hydrostatic setup too.. but settle for simplicity and ease of a PTO..lol

It's around $5000 now.

Short break down:

Pump, Filters, Couplings: $1000
Custom Oil Tank: $500
Hydraulic Fittings, hoses and oil: $1500
Misc labour expences: $600 Does not include my time.

PTO adaptor: $350
Plus the price of the 15,000lb hydraulic winch..... and my time

Wow

I do have a PTO and electric winch for sale if anyones interested...

[darinz]

No use going larger than the connections into the pump and valve body. The hose are only short so it helps to reduce friction hence heat.

..

Simple fluid dynamics would argue otherwise. The longer a hose is, the bigger it must be to get the same amount of fluid through it. So for short hoses you are right but if they are longer then there are tables that tell you how much bigger it must be and the fittings on the end would stay the same as the flow is the same. Basically in a bigger hose the fluid is going slower for the same flow so less friction. smae reason why your snorkel has to be bigger than the throttle body or filter inlet.

Anyway, more photo's!!!!!!!!

[markr]

No use going larger than the connections into the pump and valve body. The hose are only short so it helps to reduce friction hence heat.

..

Anyway, more photo's!!!!!!!!

Yeah yeah yeah, I'll post pics of the compleated job this weekend...

Mark

[markr]

I should really update this post.
As I was entered into a Tuff Truck event, I desided the winch wasn't fast enough so I removed it and sold it.

I Purchased a Ramsey RPH10000 with ratio of 5:1? instead of the runva's 26:1 ratio and strapped it in. (With a few more mods to the bullar)

Increased the valve relief pressure to the recommended PSI and it works great.

Bad news is I snapped the 10m synthetic winch rope in Gwavis? Tuff truck event.
(Weakest point now) BUT the relief valve was about to cut in.....
Never had any problems with oil overheating...

Catch you on the tracks...