The 2.8 vs 3.1 Bighorn debate....

[BMC]

Hi all,

I am considering purchasing a bighorn and have been weighing it up vs the Pajero.

Dependent on what you read and who says what, they both have their pros,cons and "you don't want to know" faults.

Anyway, long story short.

I have done my research, read the forum, have run a Grand Vitra on the past and only do big softy 4wd trips i.e nothing which is going to place major strain on the factory components. Talking Red Rocks and so on.....

Now, I've read about the 2.8 Turbo D Bighorn being a solid all round performer which is strong and safe when looked after, it has also won a couple of aussie outback safari awards according to some websites.

Now, when anyone says 3.1 TD, alarm bells go ringing and people come up with all these horror stories. I know it has weak CV's (well that's what people say) and the 3.1, well is it a honda legend engine - who knows!, turbos dont last long, can cause engine damage when they go, some engines dont make it past 100km and so on.

But, my question is, are they really that bad?, and how much should I pay for one? - I would go for a 2.8 if one was available but, cant see why a 3.1 would not suffice for what I intend on doing.

Looking for your advice here.

[GotFlex]

all i no is that is that the 3.1 have a chrome liner and the 2.8 has cast? something about the chrome glazing up and causing greif to the motor, sure someone here will tell us more

[Suza]

Like most things maintenance is key, and a lot of folks out there aren't very good at doing the basics like changing gthe oil every 5000km

[taitantoyota]

both 2.8 and 3.1 are from isuzu's light truck range, not honda engines, honda bought some rights to re badge the 3.1's

i would go 2.8 LWB bighorn as they are more widely available in manual (my preference), most 3.1s are autos and ugly looking green LWB wagones and parts are cheaper for the 2.8 (my exp)

i think that they both have problems when runnign bigger tires ~33s with snapping cv's ( ive snapped a few) but with some maintenace and driving to the conditions, they probably would not have snapped.

you do see a few 3.1's with blowen cracked cylinder heads for sale, all tend to be auto's, heavier (lwb) and more poorly maintined hence have a higher tendancy to have problems in overheating department, the smaller 3.1 mu / jazz is less likely with same engine an gearbox, just less weight to lug around whether or not its been poorly mainted its whoel life

go the 2.8 lwb put a 2.5exhaust on an 31s youll do fine round redrocks, dont become another green 3.1 factory auto stuck in the sand with a puzzled owner scratchign his head

[muddy]

I've had a 3.1 LWB auto Bighorn for 8 years. It had done 180000km when I got it, did the timing belt soon after. Since then only oil & filter changes and now over 350000km. Some towing (firewood, caravan, FJ40 on A-frame), never seemed to struggle too much. Brakes real good for towing, and heavy enough to keep the FJ40 under contol. The turbo has gradually increased the whine over time, but still seems to boost well, and I've been really happy with it. Mind you - I haven't tweaked the fuel pump or boost, so that could reduce the life on others. I recently found the clubisuzu website and sorted the only thing that had been annoying me. The auto's tend to wear out the throttle position sensor, causing the kick-down to get over-sensitive, but it's easily fixed. From my experience - I wouldn't hesitate to get the 3.1 Mind you - I've also heard rave reviews about the 2.8, which may be more robust if you plan on winding up the fuel & boost

[SupraLux]

I've had both, and liked em both. The 3.1 is a better engine when its working - and yes, I had the dreaded head problem with mine... but then I also had a heater hose burst in the engine bay of the 2.8 and toast that engine as well... The most reliable Isuzu I had was the old 5-door 2.3 turbo model - very similar to the 2.8, only it did 0-100km in 3 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours and 4 minutes! But reliable as anything...

The 3.1 is known to start a turbo whistle / whine around 130,000km - mine did it right on queue... but was still doing it when I sold the engine many km's later.

You really need to make the decision based on what you would prefer... personally the interior of the old 2.8 trucks is getting pretty dated, and finding one with the interior still in good nick is possibly going to be a little difficult. Yep, most of the 3.1's are green... but you might get lucky and find a blue one!

And mine was manual, but they are like rocking horse poop - and if you find one, get the clutch checked because replacing it when it goes will set you back a monumental sum.

Oh - an alternative is the 3.2V6 - but don't go there unless you don't mind paying for petrol... a LOT of petrol.

As for the weight of the trucks vs. the MU... well, the MU is like a tardis when it comes to weight... they are about the same or just more than a surf!.. I think the chassis rails are solid lead...

Short answer, its your call

[corosafari]

I personally would not touch another 3.1 , the chrome liner theory is correct. I know a chap who makes quite a nice earning rebuilding these when they blow, he modifies by boring block to fit a steel liner about 4mm thick. The chrome ones are alot thinner. Note these are the only ones he fixes as he has plenty of work. He also modifies cooling passages in head to prevent the overheating problem. Mine was the 3.1 EFI model that they only released for about two years around 95 , apparently they were more prone to failure. I maintained to high standard and lunched itself with no warning , expensive engines to repair until I came across this bloke who did exchange motor fo 4k , note these were about 15k back then. Was told expect 400,000km on his engfines easy. Was happy to keep for long time with that in hand , they bloody drive nice, until german tourist in rental car on wrong side of road coming around blind corner put an end to that.
As always there will be plenty owners to proove me wrong , too much of a punt for me , MY 2C.

[Crash bandicoot]

The MU was re badged a honda not the motor.

and the difference between 300 cc is negated when the reliability factor comes into play, the 2.8 from the 1990's is bullet proof, mine did well into the 700,000 km mark before it was sold and only two things ever needed doing, the rear main seal and the seal in the steering box.(i had a 2.8T rodeo double cab)

[taitantoyota]

yeh what i meant was the wagon itself. honda bought rights to rebadge light isuzu vehicles, same as honda bought rights to rebadge a land rover discovery as a honda cross road.

isuzu bighorn - honda horizon
isuzu mu - honda jazz

but only for 3.1s. not 2.8s

also of interest the isuzu bighorn was rebadged as a jackeroo - a trooper - a monteroo[sp], and even as a acura

id buy a 2.8 lwb manual bighorn as they are best value for money around 2k,

The MU was re badged a honda not the motor.

and the difference between 300 cc is negated when the reliability factor comes into play, the 2.8 from the 1990's is bullet proof, mine did well into the 700,000 km mark before it was sold and only two things ever needed doing, the rear main seal and the seal in the steering box.(i had a 2.8T rodeo double cab)

[abbo]

I've had a 3.1 LWB auto Bighorn for 8 years. It had done 180000km when I got it, did the timing belt soon after. Since then only oil & filter changes and now over 350000km. Some towing (firewood, caravan, FJ40 on A-frame), never seemed to struggle too much. Brakes real good for towing, and heavy enough to keep the FJ40 under contol. The turbo has gradually increased the whine over time, but still seems to boost well, and I've been really happy with it. Mind you - I haven't tweaked the fuel pump or boost, so that could reduce the life on others. I recently found the clubisuzu website and sorted the only thing that had been annoying me. The auto's tend to wear out the throttle position sensor, causing the kick-down to get over-sensitive, but it's easily fixed. From my experience - I wouldn't hesitate to get the 3.1 Mind you - I've also heard rave reviews about the 2.8, which may be more robust if you plan on winding up the fuel & boost

X2 I also have the 3.1 with the 5 speed and i do alot of towing and had no problems at all..Found it a little bit light on towing the 70 on a dolly but will have 70 on a frame and hope that is better. Done just over 240.000 kms and going bloodly well...

[BMC]

Thank you for all the feedback.

So, I suspect around $3.5k max should get a 2.8 Bighorn in reasonable condition. I have searched on TradeMe and they are not as common as I anticipated.

There are 3.1 Bighorns to cover Africa 10 times over!

I dont think its worth the risk purchasing a 3.1 as there appears to be some strong suggestions a rebuild could be on the cards - and this is not what I am after!

I dont mind minor faults, i.e cv's,turbos and oil leaks as this is expected with the age of these machines - but, full engine re-builds or replacement engines is not worth spending the money and risking my chances in the fist place.

There is a part of me saying go for a 3.1 if the price is right, as the bighorn will be used for the odd weekend 4wd weekend trip and/or trip down to the shops, it wont be my main vehicle and wont cover great distance at all.

But, geez, I dont want the old "told you so" scenario so I think 2.8 Bighorn - no doubt, unless a few more of the 3.1 owners can sway me.

[corosafari]

Just been thinking
If you had your heart set on 3.1
Dont let afew bad experioences put you off , sure there is plenty happy owners.
Try minimising risk:
Avoid the EFI model , one theory was that the No4 cylinder ran lean occasionally due to EFI processor.
Get compression checked and keep an eye out for any blue smoke.
Have bigger exhaust this helps performance and lowers cylinder temps.
Also you may be lucky to find one with a rebuilt eng , with cast liners , when my engine went I intially rang Engine importers and recond places , the same stories about liners evolved , some stated using Toyota,. steel liners.
At the end of the day there alot of bang for the buck

[Suza]

We have had a 3.1 for 6years and have done 170,oookm in it (275000 total) so farand its great. yes we cracked the head but it was working really hard off rod on a stinking hot day in hill country with what turned out to be a clogged radiator. I would buy another 3.1 if I had to. They are alot more comfortable than the 2.8, coils vrs leafs and are capable offroad. I have broken a couple of CV's but only since I went to 33's so have modified my driving style and no more problems. When I was running 31's no problems
Just my 2 cents worth

[taitantoyota]

We have had a 3.1 for 6years and have done 170,oookm in it (275000 total) so farand its great. yes we cracked the head but it was working really hard off rod on a stinking hot day in hill country with what turned out to be a clogged radiator. I would buy another 3.1 if I had to. They are alot more comfortable than the 2.8, coils vrs leafs and are capable offroad. I have broken a couple of CV's but only since I went to 33's so have modified my driving style and no more problems. When I was running 31's no problems
Just my 2 cents worth

hmm. im a big fan of isuzu engines. i really liked the 2.8s in all the wagons ive had but then I did put a 3.1 into my hilux ute. i did it because of the TORQUE it had and the gearing, also with a mechanical pump it was a 1 wire to the pump to make it go
some people think they are hand grenades like toyota 2.4's, which i agree a little, just think the 2.4's are more like a fujikura nuclear power station. its just time before a 2.4goes. grenades can live happily ever after if you keep the pins in them...
but i put a big radiator on, 3 inch straight from the turbo, and only tweaked the pump a little and never had any problems running 33x13.5 mickey tz

if i were to buy a 3.1 bighorn i'd want to get the radiator checked over / replaced with an ali one and get a bigger zorst on it. the 1000 bucks spent would really prolong the life of the engine, becasue no one really does have receipts for the last 2-300,000kms of oil changes and maintenace to prove the engiens been loved

[octanepwr]

My old man bought the 2.8 I drive now in 94, and upgraded to the 3.1 6 years later, which we sold at 240km as it was shagged. The 2.8 still goes hard with 350km on it - never had the internals touched. Not as powerful but I always preferred the 2.8. You are right about the liners - I have talked to the Isuzu parts specialist in Auckland about this. Both engines die young because most general car owners suck at maintenance. I think there isnt many 2.8s up for sale because at this age of their life the duds have died and everybody else is hanging onto theirs haha. The 2.8 model is more likely to have rust problems and I expect that will eventually be the death of mine (although its reasonably under control at the moment).

I run 33s and 15psi boost, I had the fuel turned up but I need a bigger exhaust to get the heat away so set it back to standard (have an EGT gauge). I have removed the muffler though which helps a bit. Pushes 33s fine. These engines (2.8s at least) are not time bombs like the 2.4 surf engines. Oil changes every 5km. I have just put on new radiator and replaced every water carrying hose in the system which is cheap insurance. Havent broken a CV yet (touch wood) but am nearly on my 3rd PS box and have only had 33s since December haha

[Drurban]

I have the 3.1L TD Diesel and I have had no issue engine wise, running 14lbs boost at the moment, but would like to increase it a bit more, I have a 2.5 inch exhaust which did wonders, so it hauls arse on the motorway when passing others, does tend to slow down on the steep inclines, when 4WDriving it has a great low down torque where you need it, which makes it so good.

I have heard the stories about blowing head gaskets but that is with other trucks as well so not an uncommon problem, also the reason for this especially with the 3.1 engines and with the Hilux's as well is the ERG return this is what does it.

The real important thing is KEEP UP THE SERVICING and all will be sweet.

that is my 2c worth

Cheers

[Mattman]

Get the motor and turbo checked and if they are in good condition then you shouldn't have any issues.

I have a 93 lwb 3.1 manual with 285k on it and it goes really well. Had a recent waterpump and belt so I did radiator all hoses thermostat cap and installed an after market gauge. Do not trust the stock gauge!

Don't overheated it and it will be fine.

Matt.

[mud_slinger]

i'm on my 2nd mu with a 2.8, never had any issues in the 5 years i've been using the 2.8's until the oil pressure unit disappears taking the oil with it

now just finished a complete rebuild, got her started for the first time last night, boy does she sound really quiet and powerful. now for the run in period then off to the mud we go. if i didnt loose all the oil i wouldn't have had to rebuild it.

so on the reliable note they are bloody reliable. my old one i had the temp gauge in the red twice on one trip and even after never missed a beat just kept on trucking.
its a much of a muchness and comes down to previous maintainance. just stay away from the 4jx1 3.0 engine they are utter crap.

[mudgripz]

Have driven the 2.8s for about 10 years now as both club trucks and daily drivers - about 200,000ks and 300+ off road tracks. Very good truck. Drivetrain is tough as nails and motors do big ks if you do the maintenance every 5000ks.

This is one of the best diesels out of Japan and my current one running well at 270,000. Previous one was tuned up with 2.5" bigbore etc and rated 153hp on dyno, with 340nm torque. Strong performer.

No real weaknesses with this motor. Can require a breather can on motor - about $50. Turbo and gearbox generally last life of truck unlike the 3.1. Not prone to head cracking like the 3.1.

Also you will not bust lots of cvs if you know how to drive to the terrain - which alot don't. I think in 10 years I broke 2 cvs - one smacking a big hidden boulder, and one when learning how to best use the front diff locker.

2.8 a very good truck and sought after now. Well regarded around world and asians come to NZ to buy wrecks, send them to Dubai and rebuild them and sell them into Africa. They bought an accident damaged 2.8 for $1500 at auction recently. Alot of 2.8s going overseas.

People tend to hang onto them so expect to pay $3000+ if you find a good one.

2.8 very easy to tune, develop for offroading, and pushes 33s with ease. My latest 2.8 has done 50,000ks with 33s and zero issues with cvs etc - pushes them very well with bit of motor tweaking.

This is damn good truck and with a bit of development has proved very competent offroad but has kept good road manners.

[Cass]

honda bought rights to rebadge light isuzu vehicles

not true, honda and isuzu had a vehicle exchange type program going on at that time, honda got the bighorn and the mu and in return gave isuzu the odysey. during the 90s GM had a large share of isuzu, which is why holden and isuzu share the rodeo and bighorn aswell.
Honda did buy the rights to rebadge the discovery but that ended when bmw bought land rover, as for being badged as a acura, acura is just hondas "luxury" brand, like toyota has lexus for example.
Sorry to hijack the thread lol, just thought id share some interesting info

[Marco Polo]

All about maintenance and driving style. My 3.1 Efi auto has over 400,000 on it and still pulls like a train. The countryside is also littered with blown up 1kzTE's. So what? In my experience, any ignorant owner can blow up the most bulletproof motor and a responsible owner can get untold trouble free km's from so called lemons. I've had a lot of "lemons" in my time and no issues. The only cars I ever had grief with were the "bulletproof" ones. My theory is the better a vehicle's reputation for reliability, the shittier it's maintenance is because the dumb arse owner thinks "this Toyota xyz will never blow up. Oil changes are for losers"!

[slide]

Mine was the 3.1 EFI model that they only released for about two years around 95 , apparently they were more prone to failure. I maintained to high standard and lunched itself with no warning , expensive engines to repair

I have seen this- no warning and well maintained, then bang. $7000 repair job...
Makes me not want one, which is a shame coz engine nicely powerful, and wagons ride really well

[Stu-]

Our 3.1 Irmsher 5spd LWB (not efi version) is still going strong at 270+k's(had it since 20km). For the last 150k of that with its been modified as as I setup a front mounted intercooler setup, top mounted air intake, removed EGR, modified inlet and 16psi+. I have towed some stupidly heavy loads around the country without any issues. Admittidly I havent done a huge amount of serious 4wd work but its definitly been stuck in the mud a few times while getting into the back blocks for hunting.

As said before by quite a few others, I think regular and thorough servicing is the key. I've replaced one clutch and one thermostat which was stuck open other than the usual servicing and cam belts. That and understanding its not a race vehicle, take it steady up the hills, don't let them cook and they just seem to keep on truckin.

[crazyclark31]

one of the main reason the 3.1s (auto)(or most other motors)blow heads is the auto usually gets forgotten about and as a result they slip more than they should which heats the trans fliud up.As it is cooled by having pipes run through the radiator this causes the water to heat up which in turn causes the head to blow. Imho no matter what you buy if its an auto you should fit an external oil cooler. Esp if you do slow heavy work ie 4wding.
That and the bigger exhuast and regular services should lessen your chances of the motor crapping itself.
But try to get one with a service record as no matter what you do if it hasn't been looked after (serviced) then the damage may alresdy be done