Prado (KZJ78) PTO mid mount winch

[mudlva]

hay what happened to your drum picture

did you have something rude in it

[kbushnz]

Nah I moved it and its lost the link, will update it later tonight

Now quick question for all...
Is the toyota pto winch stronger turning in one direction or the other or doesnt it matter?

Looking at the worm gear its pretty symmetrical

Calvin

[pruggerdore]

as far as the worm gear mesh goes I dont think it matters but whichever way the worm gear is turning it is being pushed forward or back in the housing and so if one way is built stronger than the other it may pop the worm gear out the end of the housing. seen a safari do it and that was with the winch going the right way

[kbushnz]

Thanks for that, my google searching and looking at the worm teeth design tend to lend towards it could be powered both ways.

I plan to replace three of the bolts with long bolts which will strap the two end caps together. Rather than just threaded into the housing.
This seems to be a common mod...
Will post photo's when I get to that stage.

Quickly put winch together tonight and plan to look at where to mount it over the weekend.

But because its behind the PTO either way I mount it will cause it to wind in to the bottom of the drum which is the opposite when mounted up front.

But thats fine.....

Unless I get a reversible PTO unit....

Calvin

[kbushnz]

Bit of an update..
Spent a bit of time over the weekend looking at rope paths and winch positions.
Blew a hole in the front cross mount and decided where it would come out the bull bar.
Now thats been set the rest will follow.
I can get a straight run thru to the cross member behind the transfer case.

Next step is to locate the winch.
I have two options, slight direction change to the winch top of drum.
Or run it past and thru pulleys attached to the rear cross member and back to the bottom of the drum.
Doing this I can get the winch higher and align it more easily.
Will mock it up later.
Photo below is my mobile winch rack...Cause its really heavy to hold up......


Calvin

[meatc]

How far is it from a pully no the rear cross member to the drum? If it is less than 800mm it will cause you greif when retreving the rope. Ideally you need at least 1m. The rear winch in my truck has just on 800 and under no load it peaks in the middle real bad and it runs over a crossmember to try and help with flaterning it too.

[kbushnz]

Well I have been under the truck again this morning looking at winch v's rope position.
I can only see two ways to get the maximum length (700mm give or take) without major body mods... Trying to keep it factory as much as possible...
While keeping winch away from drive shaft and diffs and suspension and body work and also keeping rope away from the same...And still being able to drive the thing via the PTO. Have settled on solution one. (I think) Oh and allowing me to have a trap door in the floor pan so I can get to the shear pin.....

If I move winch back one bay it gets too close to the diff head for my liking.
(now if I cut its bum off...move fuel tank up hmmmm another day I think)

But solution two is possible but the rope gets rather close to left coil.


Both options rely on using two pulley's / sheaves.
Option one is also good as I only need to weld two tabs to the bottom of the cross member to mount the rear winch points.

Not sure why I took on this project .... Ahh thats right watching those winch trucks ...And I am a sucker for mechanical things / projects.
Monstr next time I mention my next project remind me about this one !

Oh and I am having the lads machine me up one of these for the front hawse / fairlead from stainless (cause its cheap)


Calvin

[IcedJohnno]

Hey Calvin
Small issue with plating which you may or may not know about. Most people including most platers dont (( !

Its called Hydrogen Embrittlement,
Basically the higher the carbon content of the steel, the more carrot-like it becomes, as soon as you electro plate it. It also happens with copper pipe which does not have the carbon in it.

The solution is to heat soak the plated components at 200degC for 2 hours. This is known as passivating the components. Nothing like mums oven is there )) ))
The best practise is to passivate the parts as soon as possible after plating, Ideally done in the platers shop, though most have no idea when you talk to them about it.
This returns the plated components to an un-carrot-like state.
I am sure you dont want your parts to fail thru loading nor fatigue.

hope this helps
John

[kbushnz]

Thanks John
We bake for embrittlement relief all the time here..
So Mines had it done plus it also hardens the nickle coating more.

Calvin

[jeremy]

Is there not a line where the rope could run in-between the drop of the PTO drive and the transfercase? Maybe with a fairlead on the gearbox cross member, although it probably would need to be replaced with something stronger for that.

[kbushnz]

Is there not a line where the rope could run in-between the drop of the PTO drive and the transfercase?

Hi Jeremy
I have looked at all sorts of lines, your truck's winch line is great but runs straight thru where the PTO is.....
I have tried to get a straight line from the front hawse in the bull bar to the cross member behind the transfercase just above the PTO... Which I can do.
From there it needs a direction change to align with the winch drum.
Going too low means the line will get too close to the front axle area for my liking.
Going too high and it hits the floor pan.
Either way I run it, it still requires a direction change or two.
I am just trying to get as little of them as possible.
Here is a photo.
#1 too tangled in pto levers and rods.
#2 and 3 just too low. Would need extra guide where engine mount is.
#5 ok ish but would need extra guide where engine mount is.
#4 is where I am aiming for, enough room for rope and sheave to change direction, just enough room between floor pan and pto housing and still has a straight line to front bar and keep it away from front axle.

You should pop around and have a looksie. Wont be going anywhere this weekend as the kids are crook

Calvin

[jeremy]

Hmm, there's not much room there alright. I thought there might be a bit more room at number 2, but obviously not.

Our rope comes real close to the front axle and never been a problem (well not yet anyway).

If you're thinking about doing the backwards winch thing (solution 2), talk to Joe & Andre, cause I think they had some problems with their PTO setup like that.

[kbushnz]

Man this is doing my head in
Stuck at home with two sick kids now....
So got them settled on Cartoon network.
Then took a fresh look this morning and now have option three.
One sheave and angle winch slightly.
Angle isnt all that big for the PTO drive shaft.
And it adds 100mm to my distance between drum and sheave.
And who says it has to be straight !


Calvin

[Big]

Hi Calvin.. Just a thing to think about is if and when you're gonna run plasma.. you really need to have as much length from where it starts to leave the quide to drum as this will allow for better rapping on the drum.. by the drawings you have.. it will bunch up in the middle / sides and not rap over the whole drum nicely.. Just keep that in mind.. and it will be awesome.. cheers

[jeremy]

I like option 3! Fluffy has his mounted on an angle, so it's a proven option.

Having the rope bunch up a bit in the middle might not be so much of an issue if you allow for it (have room for it to bunch up without anything getting in the way). And the taller your rope bunches up, the faster you go As long as the drum is square to your sheave, otherwise it will bunch up on the closer side.

[mudlva]

I like option 3! Fluffy has his mounted on an angle, so it's a proven option.

Having the rope bunch up a bit in the middle might not be so much of an issue if you allow for it (have room for it to bunch up without anything getting in the way). And the taller your rope bunches up, the faster you go As long as the drum is square to your sheave, otherwise it will bunch up on the closer side.

hi Jemery

what the were and tear like on the pto drive shaft
i always been told that drive shafts dont like being out of alignment on two differant angles
if this is the case then the winch mounting will have to have the pto output and the winch worm gear in the same line/height to allow of the turning of the winch

dont know weather this is right or wrong but worth considering before the final mounting begins

regards Rohan

[mudlva]

hi calvin

just on another note got my pump all mounted and new shaft made LOOKS GOOD

now just waiting for my exhaust man to do his part

this is a good way of learning patience ah well worth the wait mind

[jeremy]

i always been told that drive shafts dont like being out of alignment on two differant angles

Good point.

It might still be workable with the CV's Calvin was thinking about running, if there's not too much angle.

[Lynx]

Looking good Dude!

Cheers Daniel

[kbushnz]

A few new photo's.
Have mocked up a pulley wheel (machine shop busy)
And made holder for it.

Trimmed a bit out of the floor pan. Will reinforce it later.

View from underneath.

Another view of the rope route forward....
Off to look at Jeremy's Lux on Saturday and see how close they got the electric winch to the rear suspension arms.
Then I can start making tabs and brackets to mount the winch.

Calvin

[kbushnz]

More Photo's
After visiting Jeremy at the workshop, have set position for the winch.
Have made up some brackets for the rear mount points.
Tacked in, will add some straps to the top of them later.



Got to play with my new welder (some one will recognize it)
Using it on gas-less wire (unwanted by Monstr cheers mate !)
Have taken off the shroud... You can see what you are doing, especially on your back, contorted around the rear axle welding upside down.
And I am a novice.!


Now to get some steel for the front mounts...
The original 8mm angle iron is too short, and overkill???
Was thinking of dropping it to 5 to 6mm ..
What do yah think?

Calvin

[coxsy]

may need more gussets on some of those brackets holding the winch, looking good, though

[mudlva]

haa
fine looking box that you have there for your welder want to patent that idea

looking good

better to be a bit strong and not break than "just about" and start moving when used in anger

oh by the way mine is working mint now with the new pump etc
went for a play yesterday and WAY YES very nice get yours going and we can go and have a play you can name the track

[kbushnz]

Yup, got more gussets to add....Some to go from the new bracket to the top of the cross tube.
The front mount will be much stronger and easier to make up.
But thats a job for next weekend once I get some more metal.
Need to look in the scrap bin at work again.

Calvin

[Big]

But thats a job for next weekend once I get some more metal.
Need to look in the scrap bin at work again.

Calvin

Gawd I here ya there..lol I like the way it's working..

[mudmike]

Looking good Calvin, was thinking of moving mine to the rear but looks like a nightmare, and putting the electric one there would be worse trying to get past the PTO shafts running forward.
Will have to come have a look once its all done.
Mike

[kbushnz]

Will have to come have a look once its all done.
Mike

Might have to charge an entrance fee, pay for it all....

You will be most welcome....

Lets hope it all works

Calvin

[kbushnz]

Ahhh taken a few days off work, bit quiet this week.
Got out into the garage while the kids are at school and made some more progress on the install.
Made up the forward mounts and side brace. Tacked it all up.
Can remove it so I can reinforce it in various places.
And I want to add some hoops over the top of the winch to stop it rolling the rope off the side. The less welds under the truck the better
Then I can stitch it all in...
But ran out of gas-less wire..
Going to pinch the neighbours bottle and swap wire back.


Looks like it will do the trick.....

Calvin

[kbushnz]

Have had another spurt of work on the winch.
Reinforced the rear brackets.


And fitted up the pulley block.



Now working on the freespool mechanism.
Don't run air so wont work for me.
Been advised not to run cable as they fill with silt and lock up.
So going hydraulic.
Got a cruiser clutch master cylinder cheep and matched to a (saying very quietly) nissan slave cylinder.
Mocking it up and want to install it before I weld in the rest of the frame. Idea is spring loaded in, hydraulic for freespool actuated from the cab.


Off to tidy my mess up.

Calvin

[Big]

Thats very cool.. I like the hydraulic setup..