Safari front axle upgrade advice

[daynehrn]

Hi everyone,

Have been looking around the site for a while and thought I would introduce myself and ask for some advice.

I am only 4wd with mates socially at this stage nothin competitive but you never know.

I currently have a Terrano (which is on trade me) has 33" Simex'es, no roof, just roll caged, winch, welded rear diff, fiddle brakes for front wheels, body lift etc. goes really well off road but is getting a bit light to keep up with everyone elses Safari's so started on the new project about three weeks ago.

It started like this



Now it looks like this



I have gotten a front wheel on it now (buying them 1 a month) and have body lifted it.
The back wheel is turned not broken, It's gunna be off road only so we are gunna make it four wheel steer for something a bit different.

I have taken photo's as we have done everything so if anyone is interested I'm happy to post them if you let me know where is most appropriate.

Anyway I am after some thoughts on the front axle set up, the two swing arms going back to the chassis seem like a bit of a weak point and as the body and suspension are to be lifted I need to do something with them anyway.

My Thoughts are to cut some 30mm ish plate with a similar shape to the swing arms but with a drop in it and change the rear mount to a bush which would make the arm much stronger and save building drop boxes
Or,
Maybe look at welding brackets to the diff and make it a four link front end this would be more work but I guess there must be some pay back performance wise?

Can any body tell me what the handling and offroad capabiltiy difference between the two options would be? or if there is a better option?

Thanks in advance for any help

Cheers

Dayne

[Fakey]

Why not 3 or 4 link it with a panhard rod

[daynehrn]

Thats what I was thinking of doing but I wondered how much better a four link with pan hard would perform over just beefing up whats already there as the four link would be quite a bit more work

[Fakey]

Should have edited that, just drive it the way it is an if ya manage to break it then you can worry bout making it stronger. Theres plenty of patrols around that get pushed pretty hard an have very little trouble with the front radius arms

Your ute chop reminds me of this thread too
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=982143

Ive used patrol front arms diff an springs in my cruiser, 2 weeks ago I hit something pretty hard (ripped the wheel out of my hands) an managed to break a front spring, no damage to the arms. Only reason I want to link the front of mine is to get the front end flexing better

[crazyclark31]

don't think you'll need to strengthen those arms either. Mate was on a run last weekend in his 35in shod shorty. Hit a rock and tore the whole ball off!!!!!!!!!!
. Broke axle,brake lines and all and the radius arm is still good as new.
so yeh think you'll be sweet with standard ones.They do limit flex though.

[Swamped]

Most I've seen are like this


Be interesting as a single/extra cab if thats what your doin.

I would also see how it goes as is and mod accordingly cos then you get to see how each mod improves its performance. I've seen a lot more damage to trailing arms than radius arms too. Those are the weak point moreso than the radius I'd say.

Only downside in the radius arms is the lack of articulation due to how the fronts are setup.

[daynehrn]

Thanks for your advice,

The reason I was thinking about it is we brought a front half of a chassis for the hubs on the diff to make it 4WS.
We picked just the chassis up with the gantry crane letting the diff hang down and the thread at the chassis end of the arm broke off, leaving one side of the diff hanging in the breeze.
I realise we were loading it in a way it wasn't designed to but, there was very minimal shock loading, maybe it was a bit of a dud arm with some cracking already?
Anyway when it broke I thought there is no way I wanna be stuck right at the top of Tommie's looking at a problem like that.
('Cause these things always happen as far from help as possible )

Anyway yes we are making it a single cab plus which is why we shortened the chassis 330mm as well, it didn't look right full length, the tray was too long and we didn't want quite that much in the wheel base but with the SWB we were going to run out of room for: recovery gear, jack, chilly bin, tool box, some spares, the dog, spare wheel, mates etc.
You know how it goes

[DaveM]

Thanks for your advice,

The reason I was thinking about it is we brought a front half of a chassis for the hubs on the diff to make it 4WS.
We picked just the chassis up with the gantry crane letting the diff hang down and the thread at the chassis end of the arm broke off, leaving one side of the diff hanging in the breeze.
I realise we were loading it in a way it wasn't designed to but, there was very minimal shock loading, maybe it was a bit of a dud arm with some cracking already?
Anyway when it broke I thought there is no way I wanna be stuck right at the top of Tommie's looking at a problem like that.
('Cause these things always happen as far from help as possible )

Not many arms break there, and as you have already said, it was loading beyond what it was designed to handle anyway.

[Fakey]

If the shocks were still connected then it was being loaded as it would be when flexing.
Ive picked the front of my truck off the ground with the crane at work plenty of times an my arms are fine, think you just had one that was ready to snap, was it a clean break or was there signs of cracking before hand?

[daynehrn]

No there was no shocks or springs in it to be fair and with the weight of the diff hanging off it, it is a big load going the wrong way, but it did apear to be a clean break too.

I guess then by the feed back it appears that the strength of the front end is not an issue so if you don't mind I might ask the question a different way:

If you were building a Safari one time only, where time, materials and fabrication expense are not a problem (part cost a little more relevant) what would your prefered set up be?

Also it sounds like changing the front shocks is a good idea so will probably allow for this at the same time.

Cheers

[DaveM]

Do you have someone that can design a new front end that actually knows what they are doing? If so, surely they are the ones to recommend what you should do?

You haven't given much info on what you are expecting to achieve, so it's probably quite hard to say what mods (if any) would be best to suit your needs.

[daynehrn]

True, There is not really a target or anything, I guess we are after the best strength, reliability and performance for how much work we have to put in.

Obviously it's a bit more work to put in say a 4 link front end but then is it's performance over a standard front end worth the effort?

It's a lot easier to change it now while we have everything stripped out and the motivation to have a go at it, once it's going I don't want to think later I wish I had done whatever, Does that kinda help where im coming from?

We have set up a few 4 links in the past on drag utes and hot rods so have an idea but would do a bit of homework on set up before rushing in.

[Fakey]

True, There is not really a target or anything, I guess we are after the best strength, reliability and performance for how much work we have to put in.

Obviously it's a bit more work to put in say a 4 link front end but then is it's performance over a standard front end worth the effort?

It's a lot easier to change it now while we have everything stripped out and the motivation to have a go at it, once it's going I don't want to think later I wish I had done whatever, Does that kinda help where im coming from?

We have set up a few 4 links in the past on drag utes and hot rods so have an idea but would do a bit of homework on set up before rushing in.

4 link it with a panhard rod then, not easy to set up but would be worth it as far as getting the front end freed up compared to the radius arm set up

[daynehrn]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, anyone got any ideas where to look for articles on this sort of thing?


This thread from Fakey was cool

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=982143

[Fakey]

Just do lots of searching on pirate, the hardcore jeep section is really good for pics an info on link suspension