Erua Road Access

[DieselBoy]

Last weekend (14th and 15th August 2011) we attempted to follow Erua Road through to Makino.

We did the research, checked on http://www.WAMS.org.nz that it was a legal road, which it is, infact its a formed legal road!!!!

The screen dump below is the WAMS map showing the legal right of access along the legal road which is Erua Rd.



The red arrow is approximately where the trip ended. We had stopped and I was out busy opening the gate. Some rude chappy on a quad roared up behind our convoy of 3 trucks and proceeded to hurl abuse and make idle threats. If only he knew there were two off duty police officers in our group He squeezed his quad past out group and proceeded to close the gate. I asked him to wait so I could get some photo's of him locking the gate on us His demeanor changed once the camera came out






He blustered some lame excuse's about how the road was theirs and it was a farm track that they maintained even though it looked like a road. Obviously he was well aware it was a legal road, but I didn't want a confrontation this early in the game. To make sure we left on good terms and to not arouse his suspicions, I shock his hand and with a big smile wished him a good day and to take care in the up coming storm

The below is a exert from the New Zealand Outdoor Access Code, from Page 9 of the document. It outlines the legal rights of all New Zealanders to access legal roads, formed or unformed with out hinderance.:

The document can be found here:

http://www.walkingaccess.govt.nz/store/ ... 30June.pdf

Unformed legal roads (paper roads)
The nature, status and use of unformed legal roads are matters of considerable public
interest, and are a very important facet of the public “access network”. Hayes (2007a)
provides a very comprehensive analysis.
Most of the road network in New Zealand was created by the reservation of land on the initial
sale of land to settlers. In addition, land was reserved around much of the coast and along
major rivers for public use. The water margin reserves generally took the form of legal road.
Not all the land set aside as road has been formed into recognisable surfaced roads and the
water margin land reserved as road was, for the most part, never intended to be formed.
These water margin reservations were created as roads, as this was the most convenient and
secure legal form available at that time to ensure that this land was kept for public use. Some
roads that were formed in the past are no longer maintained by the responsible territorial
authority, and have, in effect, reverted to being unformed.
The amount of unformed legal road in New Zealand is estimated to be up to
56,000 kilometres4. The proportion of unformed legal road varies considerably from local
authority to local authority, with a much greater proportion in rural areas.
Unformed legal roads are no different in law from formed roads. That is, the public have the
right to use them on foot, on horse, or in vehicles without hindrance from the adjacent
landholder or anyone else5. The general rules of the road apply, as well as the provisions in
Part 21 of the Local Government Act 1974. However, users of these roads should still be
considerate of others, including adjoining landowners and their property.
These provisions include the conditions under which an adjoining landowner may place a
cattle-stop or a swing gate across an unformed road. This is permissible only when the road is
not fenced laterally, and is clearly aimed as a measure to enable the control of stock in these
circumstances. Otherwise it is not lawful to place a gate, fence or other obstruction across an
unformed legal road. Gates may only be placed with the permission of the relevant territorial
authority, they must not be locked, and must have a sign indicating that they are on a public road.

Next move is to approach the council and see if they are aware of any historical issues with the road and right of access< Also one of our crew will be onto the local police to see if there has been any issues with the land owner that they are aware of, and to inform them that he will be removing the padlock on a certain date.

Game On


I encourage anyone out there interested in exploring our country side, use WAMS.org.nz and get out there and exercise your freedom!!!!

[niblik]

pet piss off is fark tards that try to own public access ways... i understand theres two sides to every situation but grrrrr.....

sick em pete.... great stuff..

[T-Boon]

Sounds like it could get very sticky very fast.

Be sure to err on the politically correct side of the equation !

[DieselBoy]

Sounds like it could get very sticky very fast.

Be sure to err on the politically correct side of the equation !

For sure, the police will be involved to cover that side of things. I don't want to get shot, or be up on vandalism or trespass or assult accusations or anything like that!!!!!

That's if it all checks out of course, there is still the potential for something random in the mix that allows them to be able to put a locked gate over a public road.......... Sounds like a Tui add eh?? Yeah Right

[DieselBoy]

pet piss off is fark tards that try to own public access ways... i understand theres two sides to every situation but grrrrr.....

sick em pete.... great stuff..

Yeah man, we reckon it must be a hotly contended bit of road, and I bet the locals no all about it. I bet there is even someone on ORE that has some inside info....

[SP450andLE]

I think half the problem is that the local councils don't make the landowners fully aware that is is a legal road, than anyone can drive on. So someone may buy a farm and have no idea it's cut up with legal road in the middle.

[DieselBoy]

I think half the problem is that the local councils don't make the landowners fully aware that is is a legal road, than anyone can drive on. So someone may buy a farm and have no idea it's cut up with legal road in the middle.

Not in this case, its all over the internet on DOC and Tourism sites a being a mountain bike route, a tramping route, and as its a legal road, a vehicle route.

The adjacent Land owner knows

[Pico42]

I think half the problem is that the local councils don't make the landowners fully aware that is is a legal road, than anyone can drive on. So someone may buy a farm and have no idea it's cut up with legal road in the middle.

It isn't the councils job to do that. But that doesn't matter because the presence of a legal road is clearly shown on the certificate of title that any half prudent person will review before buying a property. So landowner always have the opportunity to be aware of such roads.

[xj]

Im keen for a tag-along next time Pete.

[mike]

On the day the padlock is going to get cut I vote a convoy of 4wds, of around 20 in number, should go through to show support for the people working on getting this access back. And plus this will most likely be on the back of one of DB's awesome adventures

[john m]

I am ready to join a convoy to show support. My self and others have been working with walking access nz to try and keep Endean rd [a public unformed road]open.This road is just out of Rotorua and joins Paradise Valley rd with South rd Mamaku it has been blocked by P F Olsen forestry co.They have dug holes 5m wide x 4m deep to protect there private hunting for staff.If we dont keep the pressure on more and more tracks and areas will be lost for good.

[DieselBoy]

The plot thickens .........

While doing some serious googleing, I stumbled accross this article written by some nutter that likes riding horses

http://bitbybit.co.nz/jacquisjourney/fldg2tmrnui.php

The bit that interests me is this part in reference to Erua Rd:

Whilst at Ohakune I'd received an email about a particularly good track, which led from near the Chateau Tongariro on the Bruce Road, through the Tongariro Forest Park to Owhango, and it sounded so good I was keen to include it on my ride. I decided that I'd find grazing for Doug for two days, and ride east, then north along the 42 Traverse as it was known.

So we decided to take the route to Erua. By the time Carolyn returned from taking their son Alan to school, Geoff had packed my bags and pack-saddle onto the four-wheeler and we followed them across their station. They gave us thorough instructions, but unfortunately we were enjoying the ride so much we missed one of the turnings and took the 'long route', a good 2 kms further.

But it was amazing, beautiful country. The 'wrong' way gave us a very steep slope of slippery clay to negotiate, and then back up again; I was wondering how the Gannons were going to manage on their four wheeler. Alarm bells began to ring in my head. It wasn't until we'd emerged and ridden up the next track and heard, then saw their four-wheeler about 800 metres away, across a deep gully, that we realised we'd taken the wrong track.

I was keen to go back, not knowing if they'd seen us or not. Evelyn insisted we continued uphill. I'm pleased she did, because within 500 metres we'd met up with them again.

Now we followed a very old logging road, grass or clay surface, for four or five kilometres, before we hit loose metal again. It was wonderful; we were able to canter and trot to our heart's content. And Carolyn took lots of photographs for the record. Even Josh and Brae loved it.

The highlight of the day was the tunnel we rode through. This had been hewn out of the cliff many years ago. I was told that the original road had been surveyed, but that the local government hadn't been too good at maintenance. So over the years local farmers had improved the road, often taking it across their own land, so today the road cut corners across private property. The 200 metre tunnel that had been carved out of the hill cut off a hairpin bend, 400 metres of official road which was no longer used, and indeed, was so overgrown it was difficult to believe it was there. Now it was dripping with lush green ferns, looking more like a winter garden.

The Siemoneks welcomed us into their home for lunch. Their farm was on the site of an old timber town, which was reputed to be one of the roughest in the early history of New Zealand. Velma has developed a delightful alpine garden, with the addition of some wonderful pieces of furniture made out of hill country tea-tree (manuka)

.

Add that to some other info I received via PM, it sounds like about 200m in from the gate we stopped at, a tunnel replaces a dodgy section of road. The farmers have laid claim to the Tunnel.

More google action required to find out who created the Tunnel.

Also more google action to find out of the landowner can actually own the tunnel. Coming from a underground mining background myself, the landowners don't generally own anything under the surface!!!!

Interesting stuff though, apparently its been a contentious road for 25 years, so I don't propose to solve any great mysteries, but if you hadn't read about it on ORE, would you even know it existed?? There's less than F all on the net about it, can't even dig out a phone number for Broken Hill Hunting Ranch, which is on the sign on the gate!!!

[Swamped]

Figured I'd help you out with some google info gathering for ya.

Found this on FishnHunt

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?action=print;num=1217064161

Couple of posts from that:

Post by BushBash on Jul 29th, 2008 at 5:17pm
Always keen for a hunt down those ways.. got a few spots up my sleeve. And yes right up the end of Erua road are 2 farms the Greens that have a massive trophy park and the Simmoneks that have about 4000 acres of sheep and beef land. Dont gat caught poaching on either places there are great access tracks off the Erua road into the bush. I think they are pylon service tracks. Try a Forum hunt down there. You never know whod be keen

Title: Re: Hunting around OhakunePost by littlejap on Jul 31st, 2008 at 5:57pm
Iceman is correct, the whole place was 1080d just before the roar. And yeah, the owners of those farms at the end aren't shy in telling you to f*ck off or slash tyres if youre parked up on Erua rd either...

Post by BushBash on Aug 5th, 2008 at 12:27pm
Yeah they think they own the road. Heard 1st hand of them finding vehicles parked and getting the digger and digging huge trenches behind the vehicle so it cant go anywhere. That pylon track that runs along side the farm but in doc bush, they think they own. Its all been dug up so no one can get a vehicle down there. Rude really!

Post by Turangi Terror on Aug 5th, 2008 at 12:44pm
[Just keep away from the farm land at the end of the road and you won't have any problems. And that's what you should be doing without permission anyway.]
The road does not end, the road / track goes and joins up with Markino road Ruatiti. Siemonek has a gate by the Greens deer shed, with keep out signs etc, but you do not need permision as the road is public property. This has been confirmed by Ruapehu District Council. Siemonek is adamant he owns it. Also If you check the property maps it appears that 65% of his airstrip is on DOC land.

Then I found the website of a trophy hunting outfit run by people with the last name green.
http://www.callothewild.co.nz/index.html

Couldn't 100% nail down if it was actually the same place but looked like the right area on their less than awesome map. The website domain is under a ross green too with two greens working for/owning the company so I doubt its a coincidence. Anyone with access to tumonz with the land title component should confirm it.

Then I found a mention in one of their testimonials below where the property is called broken hill too.

http://www.callothewild.co.nz/hunting_testimonial.html

If it is the same place I can see why they get all up in arms given what they charge hunters. $US10,000 for 5 days and two deer

Only contact info for that outfit is in Auckland with a PO Box and an Aucks ph/fax number.

I don't want anyone to go off half-cocked without all the facts so all that I've said would need confirming even though, to me at least, it seems doubtful the info is incorrect.

[DieselBoy]

Cheers man, confirms what I had heard, don't F#k with the farmers and ranchers.



I also had an interesting little chat with Rob from Walking Access this morning. The guy's with the Ranch tried to buy the road off the council recently and got told to jump. Their reason put forward for purchasing the road was that they were worried punters on the ranch might shoot the public using the road.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Anyway, from what Rob can gather Erua road is going to be part of the National Cycle way, Ruapehu DC want to retain it as a vehicle access for S & R and the gate is straight out illegal.

He suspects at this stage that the tunnel will have been built with public money, but needs to confirm. As a result Walking Access is investigating the road for me from their side with the council etc etc and have given me a pro access contact at the Ruapehu council, who will be getting an email and a phone call from me.

Be interesting to see where it all goes!!!

[mike77]

Awesome keep up the good work, it's just like that geneology ad on TV,

"...... then I discovered I was the Second detective in the family"

[UBZ]

I have been doing some more research. Primarily from http://www.ruapehudc.govt.nz/Site/Home.ashx

Firstly in regards to "Stopped" Roads (permanently closed roads , generally with road reserve sold to adjacent land owner) in the Ruapheu District.

The only road I can find information on being" Stopped" since 2006, is Top Mill Road Raurimu in 2010.
However still need to do further check with the council to ensure a full list of "Stopped" roads

The District has 5,200 Ha of road reserve, including 2,500 Ha unformed roads

Know for some lite reading - full versions of these documents can be found at the above link

Ruapheu District Council – Land Transport Policy – 2006

7.0 STRUCTURES ON THE ROAD VERGE AND ROAD ENCROACHMENT

7.25 Occupation of Unformed Roads

7.26 Where an unformed legal road passes through property owned or occupied by the same person on each side, that person may apply to use the unformed road without payment to Council, subject to:
• Compliance with this Policy,
• The public right of access is not impeded,
• That the use is for the grazing of farm stock or for access as part of their
normal farming operation.
• The occupier must not modify or alter any existing formation of the road
without the prior consent of the Council.

7.35 Gates and Cattle Stops across Roads

7.36 Council may allow the erection of a swing gate, cattle stop or both across any rural road where:
• In Council’s opinion it is not practicable or reasonable to fence the road, or •
• By agreement, the road has been taken or may be constructed through private lands and the owner or occupier requests that a gate or cattle stop or both be erected on the outer boundary at the cost (including maintenance) of one or
both of the parties as may be agreed

7.38 The following conditions shall apply to any gate or cattle stop across a public road:
(a) Any gate across a road shall not be locked without the permission of Council, and must be able to be freely opened at all times. In exceptional circumstances Council may require a gate to be locked in the interest of public safety.
(b) Any person who erects a gate across a road shall erect signs with the words “Public Road” painted thereon in letters not less that 75mm in height to be fixed on either side of the gate and this signage shall be at all times maintained by the person authorised to erect the gate.
(c) Council shall not be liable for damages in respect to any accident arising from the existence of the gate or cattle stop.
(d) Any application to erect a gate or cattle stop across a “No Exit” road, where there are properties under different ownership further along the road, must obtain the consent from the owners of those properties

Ruapheu District Council – Land Transport Bylaw – 2006

4.0 INTERPRETATIONS

“Four Wheel Drive Vehicle” means any four-wheel drive vehicle with off-road tyres.
“Paper Road” means any road or road reserve in the District that has never been formed
“Unformed Road” means any road in the District that was once formed and has subsequently become unformed.

11.0 APPLICATION OF BYLAW

11.1 This Bylaw shall apply in respect to all roads (including unformed ‘paper’ roads) vested in and under the control of Council

20.0 USE OF ROAD

20.4 Restriction on Use of Road

20.5 Council may from time to time by resolution publicly notified, prohibit the stopping standing or driving any vehicles on any road, as described in Schedule 20.
20.6 Any road or roads subject to any restrictions imposed by resolution of Council may be formed or unformed. Such roads may at sometime have been formed but have become unformed and may or may not be in a fit state to take any form of traffic.

20.11 Encroachment onto the Road Reserve

20.12 In certain circumstances Council may allow encroachment by private property owners into the road, including unformed roads.
20.13 Any individual group or organisation wishing to occupy any road shall be required to inform Council by completing a road encroachment application. This form can be obtained form any Council office.

20.25 Gates and Cattle Stops across Roads

20.26 Council may allow the erection of a swing gate, cattle stop or both across any rural road where:
• In Council’s opinion it is not practicable or reasonable to fence the road, or
• By agreement, the road has been taken or may be constructed through private lands and the owner or occupier requests that a gate or cattle stop or both be erected on the outer boundary at the cost (including maintenance) of one or both of the parties as may be agreed.

20.28 The following conditions shall apply to any gate or cattle stop across a public road:
(a) Any gate across a road shall not be locked, and must be able to be freely opened at all times.
(b) If the Council considers that there are issues of public safety Council may require or arrange for the gate to be locked.
(c) Any person who erects a gate across a road shall erect signs with the words “Public Road” painted thereon in letters not less that 75mm in height to be fixed on either side of the gate and this signage shall be at all times maintained by the person authorised to erect the gate.
(d) Council shall not be liable for damages in respect to any accident arising from the existence of the gate or cattle stop.
Any property left of placed on the road reserve can be removed and impounded by Council.

SCHEDULE 20: RESTRICTION ON USE OF ROAD
Pursuant to Part 14 of this Bylaw, the following roads are hereby deemed to have restrictions as detailed below:
Road Name
Description
Goldfinch Street
No Heavy Motor Vehicles from Clyde Street (SH 49) to Ayr Street
Hikumutu Road
No Heavy Motor Vehicles from RP 16.300 km to 21.800 km
Hoihenga Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m
Huttons Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m
Kouturoa East Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m
Makino Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m
Matahiwi Track
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m
Ohutu Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m
Opotiki Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 6.0m from RP 4.000 km to 9.600 km (Ararimu East Road)
Papa Road
Heavy Motor Vehicles maximum length including trailer 9.2m

So basically, from what I can gather so far, the road is not stopped and has no restrictions on it .The farmer has not completed the relevant documentation to place the gate over the road, the gate is locked and does not have the correct signage.
Since the farmer has gated the road he has taken on responsibility to miantian the road past the gate. and any alterations/deviations would have to be authorized by the council .

The only card the farmer can play know is public safety , but that would stop them using the road as well.

[DieselBoy]

I thought this might happen in this thread, we know all the jargon, we can use google. I will get Mike to cut these last couple of posts out and put them into this thread:

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... S&start=15

If you have something specific to Erua rd, add into this thread, if its just general access related stuff, stick it in another thread

[SV1K]

I thought this might happen in this thread, we know all the jargon, we can use google. I will get Mike to cut these last couple of posts out and put them into this thread:

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... S&start=15

If you have something specific to Erua rd, add into this thread, if its just general access related stuff, stick it in another thread

Sorted for ya Pete

Reece

[Grayham]

Hi what's the latest news on the road is it sorted out yet it now 2015 so something must have change by now cheers.

[Swamped]

Was up there a couple weeks back. Still shut up. Theres bigger signs now about private property and camera surveillance yada yada. Unsure about the roads status or if the adjoining farms ever successfully had the road "stopped". DB might have had a follow up.

Still a game hunting operation up there with the Simoneks and another family farm according to someone in Raurimu so nothing seems different really. Locals reckon the doc Erua land is often rammed with hunters and the quad tire tracks I saw everywhere would support that. Looks like a couple reasonable length mountain bike tracks have been established in the doc land as well.
The slip on the "airstip" is a bit bigger too.

[Grayham]

Cheers for that I have contacted the council but waiting for there reply

[Grayham]

Hi just to let you know. have been talking to council about road and it comes down to a expensive court battle with the owner and it is not a good way to spend rate payers money but it is up to a legal challenge if some one wants to take it on .The road was put on privet land form the beginning but a judge could say that the council can take the road back. Warren Furner was very good to talk to at the council .You can talk to the land owner to get on and do some other tracks that are very good apparently .

The road was moved around the big slip a couple of years ago because they thought that might happen