Access Denied ! - Formed & Unformed Legal Roads.

[UBZ]

yesterday I tryed to drive from Opouteke to Kaihu (jst north of Dargavile) via Opouteke RD. nice drive through some bush with a couple of fords.
about 5km out of Opouteke I find a Gate locked my forestry contractors.
speaking with a local , apparently the road is fine but the contractors had some diesel stolen and took it upon themselves to block the road.
while I don't condone theft , if you leave you posesions in a public place it is your responsibilty to ensure they are secure.

Apparently the locals arnt taking it well and the Gate at the other end has been chopped in half.

so I thought I'd start this thread so we can keep track of all the different places we are being denied access. and maybe together we might regian our right of access..

he is the list so far.

1. Erua Road - National Park
2. Opouteke Road - Dargavile
3. Rainbow Mountian - Rotorua
4. Endean Road - Rotorua
5. Earthquake Flat Road - Rotorua
6. Zanders Road - Waimauku
7. Coal Pit road - Queenstown - OPEN -


Please add road names ad any relevant information


Chris

[smurf182]

This was a couple of years ago now (reopened when it hit the media) but I'll add this for reference

Coal Pit Road, Queenstown

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9912&hilit=coal+pit+road

[mr landrover]

yeah been a few places like that where people have locked gate but a carry a big boltcutters

[sibainmud]

I received this random E-mail yesterday.
I have no idea who this guy is or the accuracy of the information.

Hi Simon,

Can you let your off-road club members and www.offroadexpress.co.nz forum members know there isn't a way around the forestry gate at the end of Zanders Rd in Waimauku without driving on private property and damaging the owners native regrowth.
Thanks. There are way better places to be off-roading anyway.

..........
: Andy Bearsley: Technical Director for Ambient Design Ltd
: Creators of ArtRage ( www.artrage.com )
: www.ambientdesign.com
:.........

Add this to the list.
Cheers,

[DJ]

3. Raianbow Mountian

Is that Rainbow Mountain Rotorua area?

[mayday]

I received this random E-mail yesterday.
I have no idea who this guy is or the accuracy of the information.

Hi Simon,

Can you let your off-road club members and http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz forum members know there isn't a way around the forestry gate at the end of Zanders Rd in Waimauku without driving on private property and damaging the owners native regrowth.
Thanks. There are way better places to be off-roading anyway.

..........
: Andy Bearsley: Technical Director for Ambient Design Ltd
: Creators of ArtRage ( http://www.artrage.com )
: http://www.ambientdesign.com
:.........

Add this to the list.


Cheers,

The forestry block at the end of Zanders road has been sold to private owners and is now developed into house sites, The track that ran through there wasnt actually running through the surveyed area for the paper road so the new owners have blocked access to this. The paper road still exists but isnt formed now... and most likely never will be. Our farm borders this block so we have now lost our possum/pig/4wd spot!

[Jerry]

this site may be of help as well http://prs.org.nz/

[SP450andLE]

I received this random E-mail yesterday.
I have no idea who this guy is or the accuracy of the information.

Hi Simon,

Can you let your off-road club members and http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz forum members know there isn't a way around the forestry gate at the end of Zanders Rd in Waimauku without driving on private property and damaging the owners native regrowth.
Thanks. There are way better places to be off-roading anyway.

..........
: Andy Bearsley: Technical Director for Ambient Design Ltd
: Creators of ArtRage ( http://www.artrage.com )
: http://www.ambientdesign.com
:.........

Add this to the list.
Cheers,

Lincoln is away marshalling at Taupo, but when he went there last he was talking to the chap working there. He was told that story and at this time we have no reason to disbelieve or disregard it. Anyway, right or wrong, it seems the road is now so tame there's nothing to be gained driving on it anyway. I will have Lincoln reply in more detail tomorrow.

Beth, via Louis.

[Pico42]

The Coal Pit Road example above shows who has the authority to stop people blocking roads off - the Council.

In the case where the forestry contractors have taken it upon themselves to lock it off, does the council know?

[john m]

In the case of Endean Rd Rotorua the council has been aware of access problems for over 5 years but they back the forestry co, excuse of damage to equipment and diesel theft.It dosent seem to matter that logging opps have finished and the area either side of the public road has been replanted and there wont be any forestry activity for years now.So far The Walking Access Comission who totally back our stance on keeping the road open have not been able to meet with Rotorua District Council they are always too busy.Maybe if this road is restored it will open the flood gates for many more to be reopened in the Rotorua District.

[mikee]

Earthquake flat road south of Rotorua on the Taupo highway heads back toward Waikite is another one. I was told the Rotorua District Council sold the far end of the road to a farmer but the gates always locked at the Highway.

[gimmemud]

Remember reading a post on here a while back that said if you inform the council there is a public road that has blocked access, they have to act and re-open the road otherwise they face legal action.

[Jerry]

is it worth involving the nzfwda assn /combined clubs

[gimmemud]

is it worth involving the nzfwda assn /combined clubs

Why, so that that you have to join their club and request permission for a council key to access areas you are legally entitled to?

[DieselBoy]

is it worth involving the nzfwda assn /combined clubs

Make another thread if you want to discuss that, leave this one for listing legal accesses with restrictions being placed on the them!!!

I have another:


Huttons Rd, Orautoha, Ruapehu.

[Mudde1]

They are not hard to find. at last count there was 25,000km of unformed legal roads in NZ

[DieselBoy]

They are not hard to find. at last count there was 25,000km of unformed legal roads in NZ

Actually, the amount of unformed legal road in New Zealand is estimated to be up to
56,000 kilometres !!!

Care to add some you have come accross with restricted access to the list?? It might be usefull somewhere down the line

[Sketchy_Racer]

Just out of curiosity, what defines the road as a legal road? If the road name is shown on google maps does that mean that it is a legal road?

I was out taking a look around Makara, Wellington today and wanted to go follow Oteranga road, a road I found on google maps out to the coast but when I got there I found that it was gated with a sign from miridian energy saying private property

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=Makara+Road,+Karori,+Wellington,+New+Zealand&amp;aq=2&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=35.494074,73.125&amp;vpsrc=6&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Makara+Rd,+Karori+6012,+Wellington,+New+Zealand&amp;ll=-41.285485,174.720313&amp;spn=0.001967,0.004463&amp;t=h&amp;z=14&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=embed&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=Makara+Road,+Karori,+Wellington,+New+Zealand&amp;aq=2&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=35.494074,73.125&amp;vpsrc=6&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Makara+Rd,+Karori+6012,+Wellington,+New+Zealand&amp;ll=-41.285485,174.720313&amp;spn=0.001967,0.004463&amp;t=h&amp;z=14" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

[Sketchy_Racer]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Makara+Road,+Karori,+Wellington,+New+Zealand&hl=en&ll=-41.284506,174.693598&spn=0.001967,0.004463&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.494074,73.125&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=18

[Sadam_Husain]

I was out taking a look around Makara, Wellington today and wanted to go follow Oteranga road, a road I found on google maps out to the coast but when I got there I found that it was gated with a sign from miridian energy saying private property

Were you looking at the access down Karori Stm to the coast or the road over Terawhiti Stn to Oteranga bay, I cant look at your link coz I'm on a dialup connection. I dont know anything about legal roads over Terawhiti but Brent Cannard PMed me a couple of years ago about the Karori Stm access from South Makara Rd and said theres a legal unformed road down in the streambed down to the coast but not up on the formed road that takes you down to the coast, I dunno if the bach owners at Karori Stm still have keys and access on the formed road, I've only been in and out that way a few times?

[PeterVahry]

Google maps are not a reliable source for defining legal roads. In fact few mapping systems are ... because roads can be and are 'stopped' for various reasons and yet can take quite some time before corrections are made to the map files. Some map changes were not even fully addressed in the change from paper to digital.
The Walking Access Commission online maps are being updated on a regular basis from the LINZ database but even they will not give a 100% guarantee.

If a road is stopped, then frequently the surveyed boundaries are retained but the land is simply given a parcel number etc. That means it still shows on maps indicating property boundaries, as being a skinny strip of land, usually extending off some other bit of road. You need to 'drill down' to check the 'Parcel ID' and the 'appellation'. If it has those, then it's no longer public road.

That's a good reason to do plenty of research before relying on a map and some GPS co-ordinates. Some local authorities are better than others in assisting with legal road identification.

Keep probing, there are lot's of opportunities to practice!

For some reading check
http://www.walkingaccess.co.nz/store/do ... droads.pdf

and for a big reading session, check the other publications at
http://www.walkingaccess.govt.nz/page/6 ... tions.html

[UBZ]

If a road is stopped, then frequently the surveyed boundaries are retained but the land is simply given a parcel number etc. That means it still shows on maps indicating property boundaries, as being a skinny strip of land, usually extending off some other bit of road. You need to 'drill down' to check the 'Parcel ID' and the 'appellation'. If it has those, then it's no longer public road.

thanks for the info Peter , where is the best place to check "Parcel ID" and "appellation" information?

we are using LINZ Topo50 maps to identify possible roads and then checking thier status on walking access.

would you also be able the shed any light in regards to the legal status of Maratoto purely for my interests sake.

[PeterVahry]

A number of Councils have GIS mapping on their websites and those will have the Parcel ID etc. For example ... http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/en/s ... /Home.aspx

If you've looked at Maratoto, you'll see a typical road boundary on the map but it has been 'stopped' and checking the appellation, shows it as part of conservation land.

If you are into map info, wander into the DoC GIS system by going to www.doc.govt.nz and putting gis into the search box at top right on the page. It takes a while to figure out all the options offered in the map data.

[PeterVahry]

I notice in the parallel thread on Erua Rd that there's been reference to a website 'publicaccess'. There is an organisation called Public Access New Zealand Inc (PANZ) who have been working for many years on matters around old and unformed legal roads along with things like the Pastoral Tenure Reviews. They developed a website that has unfortunately for many years now been 'stalled' because the software that created it was lost to PANZ.

PANZ held their annual meeting on August 20 and the website was a topic. Plans are underway to address its shortcomings. It's an organisation that's still doing great work in a strong quiet way with a wide array of access projects. As soon as a revised website is launched it will be publicised.
How do I know? I was invited earlier this year to be a trustee of PANZ.

[GNTONC]

In the case of Endean Rd Rotorua the council has been aware of access problems for over 5 years but they back the forestry co...

The never Endeanstory...

g'day, my name is steve and I am like John involved in the reopening of Endean Road.

that is the latest damage done by the forestry company (done with heavy machinery they drove into the area just for the purpose of damaging the public road)







cheers...
steve w.

[GNTONC]

and this is the link to a website with some more pictures about the damages done by the forestry company and pictures of the work done to restore the access again...

http://neverendeanstory.yolasite.com/

cheers...
steve w.

[DieselBoy]

That's some awesome inspiration and motivation right there mate

[UBZ]

a few trucks , a few spades , wouldn't take much to make that drivable.

but, what is the councils Stance on this ? Has the road been "stopped" or have a valid "exclusion"
has the proper paper work been filled and approved by the council for major works by others, on a public road? if so where are the safety barriers , danger signs etc.
have you guys taken this up with Walking Access NZ?

I fully support what you are trying to do , so sorry for all the questions . But it's better to have the law behind you , before you dig yourself an even bigger hole.

[john m]

The road was formed in the 1930s to log the native.
The council confirm it is a public road but support the forest co who wish to keep theives and
poachers out (I too would like to keep burglars off my place but i dont think I can dig up the road)
The council did not approve any earth works.
Walking access have been to the site of 4x4 traps and have asked for warning signs untill the issue
is resolved.
To date they have not been able to meet with with council.
Dept of labour have asked foresty co to make them safe, no action yet.
Walking access maps show that at the site of the 4x4 traps is partley on forestry land.
Walking access maps also show that the forestry co has planted all of the road reserve except for the historical old formed road so no alternative access.
Other unformed roads in this forestry block also planted over.

[GNTONC]

a few trucks , a few spades , wouldn't take much to make that drivable.

Hi Chris, that's true but wouldn't it be much better if the forestry company has to drive in again with their heavy machinery and fix the whole mess... ? after all they did destroy illegaly a public road...

but, what is the councils Stance on this ? Has the road been "stopped" or have a valid "exclusion"
has the proper paper work been filled and approved by the council for major works by others, on a public road? if so where are the safety barriers , danger signs etc.
have you guys taken this up with Walking Access NZ?

the councils stance is that they do not care at all. they are aware of the problem up Endean road but they only say that 'a few ruin it for all', talking about stealing and breaking forestry equipment, drugs, illegal hunting, tree molesting and all the other 'fishy' excuses they come up with...

I wrote several letter to the council and all the answers I got back where pre phrased letters randomly put together just to try to shut me up. now they did even stop answering my letters...

yes, Walking Access NZ was here, they took pictures and since then they try to get an appointment with the council for a meeting but everytime so far the council cancelled the meeting in the last minute. also a nice way to try to shut people up and to brush problems under the carpet...