Which Engine in the Gen 2 Pajero

[ToyZuki]

I'm after a Gen 2 Pajero but I am really struggling to decide which engine choice makes the best over all truck.

2.8D and 3.5 already have a body lift on and can fit 33s without any modification compared with the 2.5D and 3.0 which obviously is a plus point. BUT the 2.8 & 3.5 engine trucks run 9.5" rear diffs compared with 9" diffs in the 3.0 and 8" diff in the 2.5D.

This means to get the same diff clearance I will have to run 3" bigger wheels on the 3.5 compared with the 2.5D????? Is this right. Is the 2.8 & 3.5 diff considerably stronger?

I also read alot on this website about tall gears in the Pajero when you run 35s even 33s. This worries me as well as I think the 3.5 runs 4.636 diffs compared with most trucks running 4.875 and some even running 5.2s.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

[pjb]

I had a gen2 with the 3.0. I swapped the diffs from 4.875 to 5.29, which was a nice improvement as I was running 33s.

Now I've swapped to a gen2 with the 3.5. More robust drivetrain apparently (very robust rumour has it). This one has 4.636 diffs, and low range is only 1.9:1 reduction. The gearing is dismal with 33s (good on the road). The only other option is 4.9 diffs from the 2.8 diesel, which is hardly worth the effort.

Marks adapters makes low range gears for both the 3.0 (2.854:1) and the 3.5 (3.15:1). This is a very tempting mod, although I think I'd top out at about 35 kph in low.

[NJV6]

PJB pretty much got it, The 2.5 has the 9 inch diff as well. Any gen 2 does. It is only the early gen 1's that have the 8 inch rear diff.

Yea it is half an inch under the rear diff so 1 tyre size. But you won't need to worry about breaking anything on the 9.5 inch diff. The 9.0 ones have been known to snap axles under severe treatment.

The front diffs are not available in 8 inch with 5.29 gears but they are in all other ratios.

Air lockers and auto lockers are available for all the diffs except the 5.29 front (7.25 inch diff)

9 inch rear diff ratios are 4.625, 4.875, 5.285
9.5 inch rear diff ratios are 4.636, 4.900

I put 4.900 from a 2.8 into mine, brought road performance back. Still can be hard work off road with 33's. Winching is hard on the clutch. Low gears will be coming when gearbox ever comes out (have noisy thrust bearing so sooner than later)

[ToyZuki]

Thanks for the replys.

PJB, Do you know if Marks Adapters does any reduced gearing for the Diesel versions. 35km/h is awesom top speed, I had an SJ with Rocklobster Box and in first gear tick over to flat to the floor was only a few Kms different it was brilliant. Thats why Im worried about the tall gears on the pajero as I had 34"s on the SJ with standard gears and backing down hills was scary.

NJV6, thanks for confirming the 2.5 has a 9" diff as well. I got my info from a website that said the following so I was thinking 3" bigger tyres to get the same diff clerance would make going for the more powerful engine pointless

Gen 1
2.6, 2.3TD, 2.5TD & 2.5TDI (some) :-
front axle = 25 spline, 29mm diameter, diff = 7.25" diameter (low pinion)
front axle = 28 spline, 29mm diameter, diff = 7.25" diameter (low pinion from an L300)
rear axle = 28 spline, 30.5mm diameter, diff = 8" diameter
3.0V6 :-
front axle = 28 spline, 29mm diameter, diff = 8" diameter (low pinion)
rear axle = 28 spline, 30.5mm diameter, diff = 9" diameter

Gen 2
3.0V6 :-
same as Gen 1 except for NH & NJ auto has 7.25" diameter front diff (high pinion) NH & NJ 5sp man has 8" diameter front diff (high pinion)
2.5TDI :-
same as NH & NJ auto
3.5V6 & 2.8TDI :-
front axle = 28 spline, 29mm diameter, diff = 8" diameter (high pinion)
rear axle = 31 spline, 33.5mm diameter, diff = 9.5" diameter

Good to hear about the lockers as well as aiming for a rear locker at first but int he end would like both

[NJV6]

The marks adapters works for both petrol & diesel.

http://www.marks4wd.com/products/gearma ... -gears.htm

That outerlimits site you were looking at is right, the 2.5 is the same as the 3.0 (NH & NJ models)

[pjb]

What NJV6 said...

Aye, I hear you about backing down hills. I had a go at a steep clay bank not so long ago. Grabbed reverse (auto box), which counts for negligible engine braking, but I'd forgotten to unplug the ABS, so I just had a hard pedal and no brakes. Browned my daks! Good ruts kept it straight fortunately.

[ToyZuki]

Haha I bet you did.

The first time i went down a hill after I put 34s ont he SJ I just let tick over take me over the edge and I hit the bottom so hard the steering wheel broke. Decided then and there to invest in a rock lobster.

Cool, if the 2.8 and 3.5 have stronger draintrain and axles looks like I am now in the hunt for a Pajero 2.8 or 3.5 with factory Rear Locker but I bet their pretty rare. When I first arrived in NZ their was a standard 3.5 pajero on Trademe but it had a rear ARb locker, would have been perfect but Mrs wouldnt let me get it to go travelling round south island in as she new I would take it off road and get stuck in the middle of no where

[pjb]

'Bout 1 in 10 I reckon have the rear locker. Trick is to find one whose owner doesn't know anything about it...

[Camshaft]

I have a 3 Ltr with the Marks 2.85 gears. I'm running 33's with a 40 mm body lift. 5th gear in low ratio tops out at about 50km.
Great for crawling downhill in first. Also good when winching as you don't overrun the winch.
The 3 ltr is a free spinner so won't bend valves if the cam belt snaps. The 3.5 is an interference motor so will bend valves if the cam goes. The double cam motors sometimes when over revved can put excessive pressure on the water pump bearing which can cause the cam belt to "walk" off the water pump pulley. This appears to be the main cause of failed 3.5 motors.
The 3 ltr motor also has the alternator fitted high up so it doesn't cop so much mud.

[lincooln]

the red soft top 3.5V6 usually have the lockers in them

[NJV6]

Good luck trying to find one with the rear locker!!!

They are like hens teeth indeed.

All NZ new ones had them but NZ never got shorties with the 3.5 or 2.8 engine.
More likely to find a factory locker on a sort top import.

I keep an eye on most Pajero's that come up on TM (sad I know) and to get a 2.8 or 3.5 (or just about any hard top for that matter!) with a factory locker is a mission.

just keep the factory LSD and get an air locker for the front, transforms the Paj!

[ToyZuki]

How many Pajeros have LSDs. I seen a few Soft Top Pajeros with a Rear locker but would rather have a hard top really.

It seems each model has its pros and cons, just just any truck really but basically the drive train and axles of the 2.8 & 3.5 are stronger but the 3.5 can be prone to engien failure compared with the 3L.

I was leaning towards the petrol as the truck wont do many miles so I wont get the higher diesel Tax back in the cheaper fuel but the deisel engine is more reliable isnt it.

In reality I think if either engine came along with a Rear Locker then I would be sold.

pjb - you said you used to have a 3.0 and now have a 3.5. Is the power noticeable/useable offroad. Do you think its a worthy upgrade

[pjb]

The 3.5 has heaps more horsepower, but less torque down low. The 3.0 was a bit of a dog on the road. So as long as you keep the engine singing, it's pretty good.

Word of warning though: These motors (3.5 DOHC non GDI) are hard to find second-hand. Mine ran a big-end a few weeks ago, and I couldn't get a decent replacement, so I went full rebuild. To give you some idea, a 180k engine from a reputable dealer was going to be $3k. Just about got it all back together now. At the rebuilder there were two other 3.5GDI engines with stuffed big-ends.
The V4AW3 auto in the 3.5 (and 2. are much nicer that the older models. Faster gear changes and more sensible gear selection.

Are you looking for LWB or a shorty?
Often the rear locker isn't mentioned in the ads on trademe. So unless the switch location is pictured, you really have to ask to be sure.
Here's some that appear to have factory lockers:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 262063.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 350963.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 651009.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 765011.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 114045.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 452218.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 224398.htm (SWB)
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 022187.htm

Not many shortys... People must be rolling/crashing those diesel models all the time - You'd think there would be a steady supply of 4.9 locking diffs from wreckers.

[NJV6]

Good stuff PJB, I have looked at all them too

All except one LWB I think look NZ new.

Shorty diesels have 4.636 diffs, the same as our petrols, it seems only the LWB 2.8's have the 4.9's. I have a 4.9 locker and axle complete sitting in the shed waiting to be listed on TM one day too.

I just picked up a 98 manual 2.8 NZ new LWB one as well cheap ready to get a bit of treatment. Factory locker.

Other option is to buy the rear diff off this guy... and transplant it. (You may need the front diff too of course if the one you get is not a 4.9)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... ermanent=0

[ToyZuki]

Im really after a SWB as I dont need the space as wit the LWB. Im used to the lightness of a Suzuki that is very easy to recover so trying to stick with a lightis truck.

Ya that what Im thinking now, buy a decent Pajero and then buy a complete rear axle with locker and swap them over. Problem is my mechanical skills are ok (may be an over statement) but my electrical and other skills are basically zero and with all the wiring in the compressor etc it may be abit beyond me. Never had to learn as had my bro who was fully qualified sparky and started offroading years before me so had already done the mods I want to do but he's back in england so more than a few beer tokens needed to get him out here to do it.

My driving experience is from Suzuki's so of course I keep it singing

3k for a 2nd hand engine thats pricy. Decisions decisions.

Im on trade me most nights looking at pajeros. There was one truck I really liked so i asked if it had a locker, he said no then posted pics of the interior with the locker button so some people just dont know.

I may be getting a Ute from work so that brings in the possiblilty of a non road goer with traile and then I will def run diesel as cheap fuel.

[NJV6]

To fit a locker to a non locker vehicle is pretty easy, its all plug in stuff. The loom in is the vehicle from factory, you just plug the switch, ECU, pump and a couple of pieces of wiring and violahh.

We can help with all that.

[Andrew1706]

Curious, I was just looking at Pajeros as a summer hack.

What are the 3.0 and 3.5 V6s like on fuel economy compared to the 2.5 and 2.8 deisels?

I appreciate they are thirsty but is it a no brainer going for the diesel

[MikeL200]

Try http://www.fuelly.com and look for Pajero, Montero etc.

[ToyZuki]

Thnaks for all the advise guys it is most appreciated.

Thats cool to know that the wiring loom is already there so i havent got to mess with the wiring to much.

The SWB that pjb posted a link to looks sweet as it already has the engine rebuilt for that money and its a 96. I could spend half that money on a not as clean truck then real soon have to pay 3k to get a new motor.

Andrew its not just the fuel economy I been told the deisel tax costs twice as much so if you dont do many miles you will never get the extra money you paid back in tax. As mine wont be a daily drive I think its going to be petrol if I keep it on the road and deisel if I dont. This is just looking at things from a money point of view

[ToyZuki]

So Im finally in a position to buy a Pajero after going Hilux in the end last time.

I am looking at 2 Pajeros at the moment that are the same price but cant decide which is the better buy.

3.0 Auto with rear locker
3.5 manual with LSD and winch

I think cost wise that the factory locker and winch cancel each other out but cant decide if a less powerful truck with an auto is better than a more powerful manual. From what Ive read its 145bhp vs 205bhp so its quite a substantial difference. Ive never had auto offroad before but went out in my mates auto LR the other weekend in the dunes and was so impressed with the auto, it made such a massive difference but wondering if that is worth 60bhp.

[Checkerhead]

Well I just read all that as if it were new info.

Pm Team tonka on here. He races a 3.5 manual shorty. But has also raced a 3l auto. He would be able to give you some valid opinions between the two.
He also had the 3.5 with an auto behind it. Reckons the motor absolutely comes alive with the manual. I have only driven it in manual form. With the 32" silvertones in low range it felt plenty peppy to me (I'm used to a 3.8 holden v6 hilux).

Anyway, Andy (Team Tonka) will be way more help than me.