the money pit

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85bj71
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the money pit

Post by 85bj71 »

Hi guys, Im brad, new to 4wding and this site. . .

I brought this 1985 toyota bj73 mwb landcruiser about 3 months ago now, its my 1st 4 wheel drive.

I brought it $1 reserve off trademe

it came with (well advertised as)
298'000kms on the clock
3.4 3b diesel and has had a turbo kit (ct26) fitted off a 13bt?
5 speed
pto winch
snorkel
bull bars
(was advertised as body lift turns out the rubber spacers are factory. . )
lock rite auto locker in the rear
lsd in the front
31" desert dueler a/t's on 15x8s
a 30mm sag in the drivers side (which is did not pick up on pre purchase due to it being sqaushed inbetween a dozen other vehicles when I viewed it)
few bits of rust nothing major


I brought it with the intension of modifying it and going off road as often as possible. it rarely gets used during the week as I have a company vehicle.

I'v only really been down to the waimak since i got it, it was extremely fun at 1st, but after going everywhere I could with the standard truck and locky I started to get bored and wanted to get into the more serious rut action as I was getting stuck frequently under the diff on the spring mounts in peewny ruts that standards surfs didnt have a issue with ,

So I sold my modified car and have started to spend the money on my cruiser,

I did alot of inquiring and it seemed as a spring over axle conversion would be ideal, after dozens of phone calls and prices I chose 4wd upgrades in christchurch to do the work as they done it plenty of times before and seemed to know what they were on about where as the cheaper outfits were not as confident.

they quoted me $2500 + gst for the spring over using all original parts
I said I have a 30mm sag in the right side and want this rectified (I said I was prepared to scource 2nd hand springs or spend money fixing my ones)
I forked out an extra $600 + gst for new shocks

coming to $3565 ... wow

I also got a deal on some 37s (cheers tim! :D) I dropped these into 4wd upgrades so they could be fitted and work could continue,

It was all done in a week and I went in and had alook, the work seemed good , I questioned him about 1 rear shock rubbing on itself (see pics below) and was told this was normal, so I paid up and took it home

now it looks awesome !!

but drives like shit !!

it pulls hard to the right like no other vehicle I have driven before has,
as soon as approx 50kph is reached the front wheels start to wobble and i get some serious wobble feedback through the steering wheel. if speed is increased the wobble worsens to the point it will throw itself off the road..

I had to go back to pick something up and mentioned these things to mike at 4wd upgrades, He said "we done an allignment on it" and it shouldnt pull to the right, I have a few non suspension or steering related issues of my own to sort on the truck but he said do those and bring it back if it still pulls to the right. .

Iv adjusted the tyre pressures and the problem has gotten far better but it still pulls to the right and gets the wobble.

I have a hd raw steering dampener on order and a wheel balance booked in, hopefully this will fix the issues (anyone with experience with large tyres on a road going 4wd like this ?)

I guess im just a little dissapointed I spent so much money and its not ready to drive and the fact I wasnt made awear there would/could be issues after the modifications

The truck also does not sit level which frustrates me as I made mike @ 4wd upgrades awear of this problem and I wanted it fixed but the springs were put back in as is

here are some pics anyway ,

Image

Image

Image




This is the rear shock rubbing, and it you look at how the bottom mount sits on the diff you will see its far from "normal"

Image

Image


Im looking forward to getting back to the river to see how she performs but it is a 100kph motorway to get there and untill i sort the steering and wobbling issues im just going to have to wait :(

thoughts / opinions welcomed
SP450andLE
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Re: the money pit

Post by SP450andLE »

Welcome to ORE! :D

Great vehicle to start with.

But some of that work does look a bit off (but more knowledgeable people will be along shortly :lol: ), and if it drives as bad as you say, and the sag isn't fixed, you should take it back to where you had the work done, and get them to rectify it.
It's not fair if you paid for it and they didn't do it right.

Also, go to your private messages page, select profile from the left hand side, and edit your info (location etc) from there :wink:
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rangimotors
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Re: the money pit

Post by rangimotors »

did the work include a cert?
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vinceparts
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Re: the money pit

Post by vinceparts »

awesome looking truck,

buuut that shock rubbing isnt normal, its becasue of the lower mount being well on the piss, you even know that, take it back adn get it remedied, you paid good money for the work done im sure you couldve gone and welded it like that yourself if you wanted on the piss :lol:

looks to me like the mount needs to be longer or something liek this on there ...http://1929fordhotrod.com/johnsblog/wp- ... -mount.jpg
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churchill
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Re: the money pit

Post by churchill »

Dodgy work on that shock. The mount needs to be fixed and might even need to replace the shock because they're not designed to take a radial load like that. You'll need to check the shock condition when it's removed.

Rest of the work looks alright.
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DieselBoy
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Re: the money pit

Post by DieselBoy »

If you've got the death wobbles, I'm going to say that they haven't set your front diff up correctly when they moved the spring purch's onto the top of the diff.

The caster angle could now be out and as a result you have the wobbles of DOOM :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Steve_t647
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Re: the money pit

Post by Steve_t647 »

Check those leaf springs, there is something odd one may be kinked or bent, this would shorten one side wheel base of the truck and poss cause some of your issues.

The other thing is look at where the spring perches are located on the diff (from the front of the spring, then from the chassis) something could be out. Larger tyre's out of balance can give this too try another set from a mates truck :)
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85bj71
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Re: the money pit

Post by 85bj71 »

rangimotors wrote:did the work include a cert?


No iv been told it is all up to standard and there should be no issues with cert, if so i will be taking it back.

vinceparts wrote:awesome looking truck,

buuut that shock rubbing isnt normal, its becasue of the lower mount being well on the piss, you even know that, take it back adn get it remedied, you paid good money for the work done im sure you couldve gone and welded it like that yourself if you wanted on the piss :lol:

looks to me like the mount needs to be longer or something liek this on there ...http://1929fordhotrod.com/johnsblog/wp- ... -mount.jpg



cheers mate it needs a good tidy up but hey it only gets dirty again , and my thoughts exactly. . . I just wasn't going to argue with him being the professional, but anyone can see the mount is on the piss I will be taking I back to get this sorted,

so tyres pressures adjusted and wheels balanced (200gms of weights on each wheel!!) looks rude as but does the job

its now driving 10x better than when I picked it up :) , it doesnt feel bad driving at 80kph now where before I could not go over 50kph, havent had a chance to see if it will sit on 100 ok yet , hoping the steering dampener will get rid of the remaining wobble but its still pulling to the right :evil: ,


On a POSITIVE note, im booked in with tomsoffroad for some bar work on the 8th dec then cert hopefully all legal before xmas!

this weeks to do list

front axle overhual
alternator is not charging at all ? (anyone know someone in chch who rebuilds these from home/cheap?)
filter light is on the dash, only just found out what this mean so I need to have a play around and try get the water out of fuel filter / light off
adjust steering stoppers to stop tyres fouling on the front springs
extendend diff breathers


also got a little bit of rust work, anyone interested?


future plans

4.8 + c and p's
Id like another lock rite for the front
general tidy up
use it as much as I can
maybe a 1uz/ls1 way down the track if I get bored, the old 3b+t chugs along surprisingly well with the 37's though , im happy enough for now :D
Last edited by 85bj71 on Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vinceparts
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Re: the money pit

Post by vinceparts »

quote]
alternator is not charging at all ? (anyone know someone in chch who rebuilds these from home/cheap?)
filter light is on the dash, only just found out what this mean so I need to have a play around and try get the water out of fuel filter / light off
[/quote]

is your timing belt light on also by any chance?

this happend to mine and it was the brushes in the alternator that were worn, replaced them and these 3 lights are still on .... :roll:
85bj71
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Re: the money pit

Post by 85bj71 »

DieselBoy wrote:If you've got the death wobbles, I'm going to say that they haven't set your front diff up correctly when they moved the spring purch's onto the top of the diff.

The caster angle could now be out and as a result you have the wobbles of DOOM :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




Yes this has concerned me. I want to get my facts straight and actually know what is wrong with proof before I go back to 4wd upgrades and tell them im not happy and why,

death wobbles now seems worse at 50kph than 80kph , after balancing and correct even tyre pressures, I get my steering dampener tomorrow , looking forward to seeing the difference it makes

vinceparts wrote:
is your timing belt light on also by any chance?

this happend to mine and it was the brushes in the alternator that were worn, replaced them and these 3 lights are still on .... :roll:


No just the battery warning light is lit up, have only put and mulitmetre on it and checked for obvious issues, the truck came with one in the boot as a spare i dont know what condition its in but hoping to get it rebuilt. swap them over problem solved
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ClassicCruiserSpares
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Re: the money pit

Post by ClassicCruiserSpares »

That shock mount is ugly and the shock shouldnt be on an angle like that, and Im surprised you havent snapped it yet, because when it flexes up the diff moves backwards which bends it back even further.
The right front spring looks to be flatter than the left one?
Just out of interest why did you not just do a ubolt flip and maybe a 2" spring lift? and keep the truck lower in stead of being really high and tippy and not being able to take on side leans?
In regards to your wobbles borrow some other good wheels that arent creepys and take it for a spin, creepys dont always handle the best.
Also can you find out when the front diff was rotated upwards to ease the driveshaft angle, were the swivel tubes cut and rotated back the other way to correct the castor? and how much were they rotated? Or do you have the wheel align sheet?
I wouldnt think it would pass a cert with the shock like that also if it doesnt handle very good.
Lastly I can help with your rust and panel repairs. :D
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Tires are like boobs, they always look big until you have played with them for a while, then you just want a bigger set.
85bj71
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Re: the money pit

Post by 85bj71 »

ClassicCruiserSpares wrote:That shock mount is ugly and the shock shouldnt be on an angle like that, and Im surprised you havent snapped it yet, because when it flexes up the diff moves backwards which bends it back even further.
The right front spring looks to be flatter than the left one?
Just out of interest why did you not just do a ubolt flip and maybe a 2" spring lift? and keep the truck lower in stead of being really high and tippy and not being able to take on side leans?
In regards to your wobbles borrow some other good wheels that arent creepys and take it for a spin, creepys dont always handle the best.
Also can you find out when the front diff was rotated upwards to ease the driveshaft angle, were the swivel tubes cut and rotated back the other way to correct the castor? and how much were they rotated? Or do you have the wheel align sheet?
I wouldnt think it would pass a cert with the shock like that also if it doesnt handle very good.
Lastly I can help with your rust and panel repairs. :D



probably havn't snapped it because only low speed road driving 50km max since i got it back, There is a bit of difference in the front springs, ill ask about the castor when I go to pick up half of a manual gub of mine they still have ,
I know they dont have a wheel alignment machine , I think they just gave it an eye alignment :lol: no print out. . .

give me a pm and well tee something up regarding rust, its not much
nismo26
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Re: the money pit

Post by nismo26 »

85bj71 wrote:
It was all done in a week and I went in and had alook, the work seemed good , I questioned him about 1 rear shock rubbing on itself (see pics below) and was told this was normal, so I paid up and took it home



One of my raw shocks rubs on itself aswell, I know two other people that their shocks rub to. I think it is a Raw thing
85bj71
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Re: the money pit

Post by 85bj71 »

nismo26 wrote:One of my raw shocks rubs on itself aswell, I know two other people that their shocks rub to. I think it is a Raw thing



have they done this since new? its definitly a case of the bottom shock mount being blatently on the piss, my left rear raw shock is problem free and the mount is on the correct angle
nismo26
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Re: the money pit

Post by nismo26 »

Yea they have a band on them new to stop them opening up while in the box, one of mine wouldn't even open up where the other one would, one of mine is fine and I have swapped them over so I know its not the mounts.
muddyplumber
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Re: the money pit

Post by muddyplumber »

hey try swapping tires and taking it for a spin,if those creepys arnt blanced properly they will get the mad wobble on,happened to me.those tires can be a bit of a pig on the road
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DieselBoy
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Re: the money pit

Post by DieselBoy »

Very true, they put 4 big clip on weights plus some stick on weights on one area of one of my creepys back in the day.

Always had to run that on the rear as it was still ugly. 60k's and 90k's it was bad if you accidently fitted it to the front.

But not Death Wobble shocking.

Death Wobble or wheel shimmy is an entirely differently level of "holy shit I'm gonna die" :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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wopass
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Re: the money pit

Post by wopass »

my fawdy gets it if the fronts are full of mud or some wheel weights get ripped off, gotta have em ballanced pretty good or it gets the wobbles of doom at 60...
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De-Ranged
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Re: the money pit

Post by De-Ranged »

went to balance up my club tyres the other day 316 grams one side and 162 the other :lol: didn't bother after that..

My sugestion would be to go get a wheel alignment and balance from an independent outfit.... this will show up any issues suspension work or wheels
This won't cost much all your after is a sheet showing current alignment not for them to adjust anything

As for the shock mount I can't see that passing cert inspection
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Shane
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Re: the money pit

Post by Shane »

Creepys seam to be the worst tyre for balance issues,not so bad when brand new soon as they get some wear they'r just a night mere.
A friend has 37" creepys,recently brought some 36" simex's done 5+ trips to w/coast on them,they drive like a dream compaired to creepys(simex on beadlocks also)

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wjw
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Re: the money pit

Post by wjw »

If you want to find out if its the tyres, you could borrow my 35"AT's for a few hours on the weekend.
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85bj71
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Re: the money pit

Post by 85bj71 »

I think people are missing my post where is says iv adjusted the tyre pressures and balanced the wheels and its driving fine at 100kph , cheers for the offer on the 35s but I dont think its necessary, they tyres are what the are, the only road driving i plan to do in this truck is to a 4wding spot. Iv brought a HD raw steering dampener which is like 3x the bore size as standard once this is fitted and proper wheel alignment and she should be sweet.




Yesterday i took my truck into 4wd accessories to go over the work 4wd upgrades have done.

Rick @ 4wd accessories was awesome! he gave me atleast 45mins on his time and went over everything with me which was awesome of him!
I would strongly recommend to at least to and talk to these guys about getting work done on your vehicle before you choose to go ahead with anything

My truck will be going back to get a few things fixed,

the bump stops are un changed and the 1st thing to bottom out is the shocks which is oh not good. . also this causes the springs to over flex

rear shock mount is piss poor and needs to be re done,

slight pull to the right,



above issues will be fixed next week, front end rebuild this weekend, a trip to the river before xmas is looking promising

so over all, not so bad 8)
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aroma
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Re: the money pit

Post by aroma »

check your brake hose's they look too short in the pic
saf r brakes make them in chch
jakwoo39
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Re: the money pit

Post by jakwoo39 »

would definatly get them to check castor angle, i just got my 70 series with a soa on the road today and even with no shocks in yet it was still ok to drive and no wobble at 50ks
and that shock mount is piss poor, im a 1st year apprentice and would be embarrassed by that
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ClassicCruiserSpares
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Re: the money pit

Post by ClassicCruiserSpares »

jakwoo39 wrote:would definatly get them to check castor angle, i just got my 70 series with a soa on the road today and even with no shocks in yet it was still ok to drive and no wobble at 50ks
and that shock mount is piss poor, im a 1st year apprentice and would be embarrassed by that


Cant really compare your 70 to his because you done shackel reversal which would get rid of alot of your bumpsteer, and make it handle much better.
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jakwoo39
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Re: the money pit

Post by jakwoo39 »

i was more refering to the fact that i spent alot of time getting that castor angle where i wanted it and i just would have assumed that the pros would have done the same
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Sadam_Husain
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Re: the money pit

Post by Sadam_Husain »

Dont forget to factor in the more offroad capable and modified you make your truck your trading off its road handling manners so dont expect to get it driving as nice as it used to on the road, you try and get it handling as best as you can but you just have to start getting used to wobbles, shimmy, body roll, braking issues and all that sort of shit
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