Toymotor No Go :(

[gomulletgo]

Soooo, um yeh. Kinda need help getting my truck going again probably is'nt a huge problem but it's all new to me.

Went for a quiet country drive, nothing to major, in 2wd. got to a place where we either had to take a shortcut or backtrack for ages, so tried to take the shortcut, up a steep bank, lost traction, slid back, put my bumper and exhaust right in the dirt, engine tryed to die, I did'nt know my muffler was blocked, tryed to give it more revs. flooded it (did'nt know this was the case until later) engine stalled.

A very nice man showed up in a much more capable vehicle than mine, winched the front of the truck around so we were'nt "hung up" on the back anymore, rolled it off the bank. tryed to start it, click. starter no go. did a huff and puff three point turn on the track, got it facing downhill and did a hill start (took a while) plenty of black smoke, got home thanks to that top bloke :thumleft:

But still would'nt start. tap, tap, tap on the starter, still no go. Solinoid and glow plugs click. not all the lights come up on the dash that usually do, backwindow won't wind down with the key in the on position like it should do.

I opened up the engine bay fuse box on the drivers side guard (84 surf diesel), the fuse labelled "diesel" (60A) just below the one labelled "glow" is blown. Is this the problem? and if it is how do I get the MUTHA F@#KING thing out?!!!

does it have some crazy locking mechanism that my primitive mind can't comprehend that has to be activated before it will come out?

It seems more than just "tight" think super glued.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again to that top bloke, don't know if he is on the forum.

MULLET

[dixie]

Hey there Mullet,sounds like your fuse has fused itself together or its the fuse that has a 10ml bolt holding it in from the underside.
How many volts has the battery got left in it?sounds like it may have fried itself which would tell us your fuse has fused itself together,maybe a dead short somewhere!!! Id be checking the voltage and charge rate.

Good luck maybe worth a shot.

[Elmo]

Some of those bigger fuses are bolted in. Replace the fuse first, as that is a clear problem, may not be the only problem, but a blown fuse is stopping something.

But why did it blow?

If you have a manual for it, try and locate what other circuits are run by that fuse. Its possibly the starter solinoid fuse, that blew because of the back pressure in system, caused by the blockage, and beuase the engine couldnt turn over easily, drew too much current and poped the fuse??

There is usually more than one thing hooked up to a big fuse like that, so yes, that could be the very reason why the back window isnt working as well.

Replace the fuse, see if everything else works, unblock exhaust (if you havent already done so) and go from there.

I can give you a habd if need be. Just sing out and I'll get some tools and come round.

Ken

[toymudlux]

just a thought , if you come down on the ass end you might of riped off or cruhed your trailer plug , if it has been done dodgy that will blow plenty of fuses ..
just a thought.
Andy

[WACKO]

also bcheck your exhaust isnt bent further up the pipe. i put the ass of my truck in the dirt once and it got bent just above the diff. caused alot of back pressure even after the dirt was removed.

[gomulletgo]

O.K. just to update.Unbolted the fuse thanks for the heads up on that one Elmo and Dixie. Got another 60A fuse, started up sweet as, went flying down the river to catch up with the Kowai river trip group. Got stuck what a muppet. luckily another top bloke turned up and snatched me easy as. Thanks top bloke, you know who you are. :thumright:

Everyone was parked up by the SH1 bridge, so I parked up too, chatted....hmmm no Elmo. We all got in our trucks to go and..... Click. Oh F.F.S! popped hood, yep the new fuse was blown. so Worzel tow started me and I went home

Trailer plug is already well up out of the way and no longer a problem. (nearly lost it on that Ashley river trip)

Yes the exhaust has crimped up a bit next to the spare wheel (I'll get that fixed) but I don't think it is a huge problem when running/driving it seems to go fine (perhaps a bit too good, hence stuck )

The problem seems to be something to do with starting (once running, pull or hill started, it goes good as.) It seems to glow fine, solinoid clicks, battery seems to have plenty of kick, starter just will not go and it's obviously very fond of blowing that 60A fuse.

Anymore advice anyone? I can't seem to glean anything useful out of the two different manuals I have

Failing that I'll get it to the auto sparky asap. Thanks for the offer of help Elmo, another Top bloke :thumleft:

MULLET

[NuTTa]

i'm sure they are sposed to be a 80 amp fuse...i had the same prob with my truck..well i diddnt get stuuck...or back in to a bank...lol..but it blew the fuse...i got another 80 amp from Ripco ($7.00) whacked it in and never had the prob since...just check that the wires from the start solenoid arent earthing out anywhere and that the glow wires on the bottom of the inlet manifold arent earthing either..your starter motor feed isnt earthing anywhere on the side (they can touch if abused)..other than that im not sure without actually seeing it.


Cheers
Brendon

[4wdnuts]

just another thing to check as well is your battery terminals. ive had probs with my truck when going through the rough stuff when you try to start it afterwards it wont start. its usually just a dodgy earth. just another idea to try.

[gomulletgo]

GRRRRRR update.

took it to the auto sparky yesterday, he went over it, checked everything, starter, alternator, glow etc.etc.etc.

Could'nt find anything wrong. so he put a new 60A fuse in it and told me to take it home and drive it around until it "misbehaves" then come back to him. Not my idea of fun.....an unknown electrical problem that stops you dead in your tracks, reminds me of my last project.

needless to say I have a spare fuse in my truck. So far I've driven it 10mins, stopped, started, 20min drive, stopped (all the while checking the fuse.)

Fuse is still intact.

just another thing to check as well is your battery terminals. ive had probs with my truck when going through the rough stuff when you try to start it afterwards it wont start. its usually just a dodgy earth. just another idea to try.

everything seems fine in this area but I will check it again. thanks.

i'm sure they are sposed to be a 80 amp fuse

it is a 60A fuse, it's the "glow" one that is 80A. thanks. not really too adept with electical things, hence took it to the sparky. he would've checked all those things you said eh?

I bought a diesel because they are supposed to be more reliable offroad and don't give the electrical problems that petrols do. I certainly did'nt buy diesel for it's performance.

MULLET

[Sadam_Husain]

I'd definately take the auto-sparkys advice and throw a handfull of spare fuses in the glovebox till you can work out what the problem is :study:

[Elmo]

Ive just found out that we have a sparky at our work, if any more probs, I can get him to look at it for you. He wouldnt charge the earth either, if anything.

Sorry didnt tell you before, but I really only found out today.

[gomulletgo]

throw a handfull of spare fuses in the glovebox

damn straight! I'll tryn pick up some more tomorrow. I do have a spare, but it does'nt hurt to be like AL and have a spare truck on board

Ive just found out that we have a sparky at our work, if any more probs, I can get him to look at it for you. He wouldnt charge the earth either, if anything.

TOP BLOKE!!! I'll definetly let you know. the fuse is still in one piece for now though. today, start, stop, start, stop. plenty of times! (I'm now quite quick at checking that fuse in the rain)

Sorry didnt tell you before, but I really only found out today.

thats cool man, sh!t I can't predict the future either. I just think its pretty kickass how you and so many others on this site are so willing to help out others. cheers

on a side note, I got my exhaust unsquished today (technical term) at Rangiora Exhaust Center (next to Repco). They are seriously great guys in there and of all my dealings with them I have been very impressed with their workmanship and value. (no I don't get a kickback for saying this). Credit where credits due.

MULLET

[jarps]

Had my whole exhaust replaced at rangiora exhaust center, top blokes for sure, only complaint is it wasnt loud enough!

[gomulletgo]

Good news, That fuse has never blown again.

Bad news, I have what looks (and smells) like diff oil leaking out of the left rear drum brake and spraying itself over the inside of the rim and tyre.

This has happened to me before, in my beach buggy, it was coming out of both sides, I just replaced the whole rear axel with one from a mazda bongo van (I had one lying around) because I wanted the brakes (the existing axel had no brakes.)

So my questions are:

What has gone wrong?

How do I fix it? / Is it hard to do?

How much should it cost approx?


I know if this has happened to me twice then it has surely happened to some of you hard out offroaders heaps. So please help.

Here is a pic: http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... h=imgAnch1

sorry about the rough sketch (some AR$EHOLE stole our digi cam on friday)

MULLET

[monaro427]

it's probably a axle seal, got one for $14 from miles toyota, just take the axle out use a screwdriver or something to lever the old seal out and replace with new one, it's pretty easy.

[Elmo]

True, it could be just a seal, and cheap to replace, but it could also be a wheel cylinder leaking (not oil though)

How ever, bothe will cause more expense if the liquid gets on the brake linings, they will have to be replaced also.

I can definitly help with the repair, but not untill next sat at the earliest.

Ken

[Mattman]

Before you pull the axle, check the rear wheel bearing with the wheel mounted by checking the play. If there is excessive play then you will need to replace the bearing.

A work bearing can allow oil through the axle bypassing the seal.

Wheel bearing kit with seals is about $75, you need to get the old bearing pressed off and the new one pressed on though.

You don't want to replace the seal and have it start leaking again straight away.

If the fluid looks clean then you can get away with a top up otherwise it's worth buying a 4l pack of diff oil and changing it all out. If you leave it in jack the axle up high on the side you are working on to stop the fluid leaking out when you pull the axle.

Check your fill plug before emptying any fluid out. You want to be sure you can put fluid in before letting it all out....

Matt.

[Steve_t647]

you may not feel the play in the back with the brake drums on. I got a warrant and the bearing was shot then had the leak appear.

I would pull the wheel and brake drum off see if there is movement throw it together and get the parts (bearing and seal)

It is not a huge job but it takes a little time I did both sides (had to put LSD oil back in so I was safe)

Good luck if you need another set of hands give me a yell

[gomulletgo]

First off.......big shout out to ELMO, thanks for the help man. (even if I did have to endure hours of hearing how much better nissans are than toyotas )

Good luck if you need another set of hands give me a yell

Thanks for the offer Everyone seems so keen to help all the time they must realise how hopeless I am

So this is where we are at:

We replaced the bearing and seals, and brake shoes (Elmo doing,me watching, offering useless advice)

Yes it did require heating and pressing to get it apart and the new bearing on again, all seemed to go without a hitch.

Then we (Elmo) put the new brake shoes on (old ones had oil on them) and battled to get the drums back on (the little adjuster thing at the bottom was adjusted all the way in).

The axle turns freely until the drum is almost all the way on and when you nip it up with a nut the axle can barely be rotated by hand. The shoes seem to be too big or something, so we sanded and filed all the parts that seemed to be rubbing, as well as taking it for a few "bedding in" test drives, it's still no better, the axle barely rotates by hand when it is jacked up with the wheel on. When taken for a run (bot 10 km) the drum/axle etc. really heat up (water fizzles on them) there is so much drag created by the brakes or whatever the problem is that it can barely achieve 80kmh on flat road. Feels like your towing a trailer

It seems to me like the brake shoes are either: the wrong ones, they have not been installed correctly (not possible eh Elmo ) or for some reason the brakes are "on" a little bit when they should'nt be, like if you tried to drive around while pressing the brake pedal a little bit constantly.

I don't know I'm no mechanic, some of you old guys should hopefully know, seeing as once upon a time drum brakes were on every vehicle.

I now know why people prefer working on disc brakes. Grrrr drum brakes

MULLET

[Elmo]

Just to add. The shoes cant be on the wrong way due to them all being identical (other than 2 mounting pins, that I know are in the right place or it wouldnt have gone together)

Shoes arent too wide, or to big in radias as we measured before fitting them. The ONLY thing that I see possibly being wrong is the outer diameter of the shoes/linings with the NEW linings on,ie,maybe thenew linings are a tad over size.

Its odd that when drums are just pushed on by hand,they are fine. Its just the last 1mm or so when bolted up that they lock. Its like the drum pushes on the outeredge of the shoes etc, but cant see where, or how.

[NuTTa]

did you take the handbrake adjustment off a bit, and make sure the handbrake fittings are seated properly on the new shoes..why didn't you just get a can of brake clean and spray your original shoes..they would have been fine...

just a few thought's..


Cheers
Brendon

[Elmo]

original shpes had about 1/2 mm off linings, so suggested it was time to change them, specially since had oil on them also.

Yes,park brake backed off totally.

[Mattman]

If it's not binding until the the drum is fully seated with a wheel nut then it doesn't sound like outside diameter, it sounds like the drum is binding against the front edge of the shoes.

As you say though if it's that bad you would see where it's binding as it would be obvious.

If you compare the shoes beside each other are they the same overall size except for the additional pad depth?

I would be refitting the old shoes and seeing if everything is okay before going any further.

Matt.

[Elmo]

Yep, they are identical size,except for the new lining. Mullet has been putting the drums on, turning, and sanding back. the areas of the high points.

My educated guess is, that the new linings are slightly too thick.

Its a bit of a mission to change the shoes back to original, but if thats what is needed then it might have to be done.

[Steve_t647]

Does the handbrake move normaly? or as you would expect? if there is that little movement in the brake drum then I would suspect the handbrake cable would not move far.

The only other thing I can think of is the pad thickness adjuster is in the wrong place (the silver threaded thingy ) at the bottom from memory they are no different to other drum brake system's that I know of.

Do both drum's get hot? if it is only one it could be a stuck piston, I guess you re-blead the brakes? You could try release bleeders on the back brakes and handbrake and see if they turn, remember if it is LSD and one wheel is on the ground it won't be too easy to spin.

Oh and my drum's push on most of the way but are tight that last bit too, are you sure the inner and outer edges of the Drum are not binding? ie where they fit together? you didn't swap the drum covers over (LHS put on RHS) or something simple?

[gomulletgo]

Does the handbrake move normaly?

Do both drum's get hot?

yes and yes.

remember if it is LSD and one wheel is on the ground it won't be too easy to spin.

no LSD

are you sure the inner and outer edges of the Drum are not binding? ie where they fit together?

they do not appear to be binding where they fit together, all the friction/heat seems to be on the faces of the brake shoes where you would expect them to wear. That's why I don't get that the drum is hard to rotate only as the drum is tightened on to the hub. I thought maybe the shoes and drum were slightly tapered and that so the faces only come together when tightened.

you didn't swap the drum covers over (LHS put on RHS) or something simple?

nope (easy to tell the difference one has diff oil on it) swapped them over just now to see if it would help. no luck.

it sounds like the drum is binding against the front edge of the shoes.

that is the logical explanation, but it does not seem to be the case, there is no wear on the front edge of the shoes.

Well, I had a bit of a look at one of my instruction manuals and spotted this picture. you know instruction manuals eh elmo? there the things that you screw up and throw over your shoulder
http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... h=imgAnch2

I thought that's not how elmo did it! and went and had a look. below I have altered that pic to show you how elmo has set it up.
http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... h=imgAnch1

thanks again for helping elmo
sooooo um yeh. comment at will

MULLET

[Elmo]

SO ya saying I put one side back together backwards? If that is the case, then I see that it was backwards when I pulled it off, as I checked all the shoes and pins were in the same place as the shoes I pulled off.

I also still dont see how it is causing the shoes/drums to be tight. As both ends seat up against where they are ment to sit. ie, not being pushed outwards to cause them to be 'oversize'

So have you put it right? Didit fix it?

I apoligise if I did it wrong, but just put them together how I saw them come apart.

I hope problem is fixed now?

[gomulletgo]

OH SH!T !!!

I think I've blown my diff. I went to the shed to remove the handbrake cable from the drum brakes to rule that out as the problem, which I did and the problem is still there even with the hand brake disconnected.

But while I was f$#king about with it I noticed the driveshaft was not moving in unison with the hubs.

When the hubs are turned the drive shaft turns a bit, but can easily be held still with your other hand. There is a slight shudder through the driveshaft and hubs as I turn them and I thought this might be what is left of the cogs bumping on eachother, I pulled the inspection bung and checked the oil, expecting to see metal filings all through it. but found none.

What the fark is goin on?



MULLET

[Mattman]

Unless you are turning both hubs at the same time then I wouldn't expect to see the driveshaft move.

The metal filings won't be visible unless you remove the drain plug as it has a magnetic plug in it which will attract the filings and keep them held.

Matt.

[Elmo]

Your dreaming!

Ya diff is fine!!