ANOTHER hunting trip goes bad!!

[petefj40]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6825707 ... nting-trip

I'm shocked at how many hunting accidents have happened lately.
As a responsible, 'firearms license' holder it makes me think, something has to change.

[tomsoffroad]

It should be a 2nd degree murder charge This shit shouldn't happen. Isn't rule number 1 "Identify your target"?

[petefj40]

It should be a 2nd degree murder charge This shit shouldn't happen. Isn't rule number 1 "Identify your target"?

Yep. I'd say anyone guilty of shooting a mate in this manner should be dealt with good and proper.
The rules are simple, I thought.
These latest spate of tragic firearm accidents gives all those people that don't want 'Joe Public' to own a 'Firearms License' heaps of weight.
Farks it up for every other responsible firearms owner.

[Macca]

petefj40 These latest spate of tragic firearm accidents gives all those people that don't want 'Joe Public' to own a 'Firearms License' heaps of weight.
Farks it up for every other responsible firearms owner.

+1

There has to be a massive change in the mind set of those setting licencing.it is far to easy for us to get a licence. There needs to be more of a hands on course that drums in some of the basics. Not just a one night watch avideo and answer some questions.

[petefj40]

petefj40 These latest spate of tragic firearm accidents gives all those people that don't want 'Joe Public' to own a 'Firearms License' heaps of weight.
Farks it up for every other responsible firearms owner.

+1

There has to be a massive change in the mind set of those setting licencing.it is far to easy for us to get a licence. There needs to be more of a hands on course that drums in some of the basics. Not just a one night watch avideo and answer some questions.

I agree!!
I got my license for ten years a few years ago. I'd be happy to sit a refresher course every couple of years or every year to keep it.
Maybe something like that has to happen?
Because as it stands? Once it runs out (10 years) is the only time you have to refresh your memory of the rules.

[tomsoffroad]

Because as it stands? Once it runs out (10 years) is the only time you have to refresh your memory of the rules.

It's just common sense tho. The rules don't change, just some people get excited and loose the ability to think straight.

[crazyclark31]

yep somethings gota be done with the rules to try and stop this stuff happening.
Think 2nd deg murder is a bit far unless they can prove some intent as accidents do happen and that poor bastards gota live with that for rest of life. unless of course it doesn't change him, then charge the bugger.

[petefj40]

Because as it stands? Once it runs out (10 years) is the only time you have to refresh your memory of the rules.

It's just common sense tho. The rules don't change, just some people get excited and loose the ability to think straight.

And over 10 years, some people DON'T think straight. That's pretty simple to comprehend.

[J_Dub]

Its meathead redneck young phuks who drink n shoot..
Suprised this hasnt happened in Waiuku...

[Mud Hog]

I agree they could improve on the licencing and training but no matter what you do there a f@rkwits out there. These people have no care spotlighting with 4 of your mates running around

[petefj40]

I think we have to remember. "Identify your target".
It's pretty simple.
And, it's a "privilege" to own a rifle, not a right.

[Swamped]

From my experience people see the info regarding these incidents and think ahhh that won't happen to me so carry on as normal rather than altering their behaviour therefore increasing penalties won't likely have an effect. This means rather than increasing penalties further legislation affecting all gun owners could come about.ie possibly go the way of Aussie or the uk. It seems lawmakers like to model everything off those guys.
This offender will be charged and receive cage time as a result can't ask for much more unless you want more of a crackdown on all firearm owners. When have you seen govt rulings not been over the top? I for one like my freedom.

The 10 year thing is good generally however it's the fact that there is no refresher of firearm ettiquette in that time.that could help.
Bang the drum for more education as that's what's needed, not major rule changes.you people that have opinions about the current safety courses and what not could offer to volunteer at a range/club or with msc and you might get a chance to set newbies on the right track.

My 2c

[petefj40]

The 10 year thing is good generally however it's the fact that there is no refresher of firearm ettiquette in that time. That could help.
Bang the drum for more education as that's what's needed

My 2c

It's good to hear what others think. Thanks for your input.

Personally. I think over that, '10 year period' many people's positions can change, mentally or otherwise.
I'm sure it changes ALL the time..
If you want to gain a firearms license? They interview you AND your partner or closest friends to see if you're mentally fit to own a gun. And so they should!

What about the, "David Bane" murders?? Maybe if they had of checked the family of the Bane's (whom ever it was that held the gun license) was fit to hold one, maybe part of the family would still be alive??

I don't mean to open a can of worms here. Or maybe I have.

A 10 year gap from checking if you're fit to own a gun isn't good enough.
But that's just MY view..

[NJV6]

There are a few assumptions written here.... ^

What about the poor barstard that has just shot his mate (who happens to be from an area close to home in an area I love to go 4WDing - yip, I know of the family)?

Yes something went wrong (identify your target springs to mind) but how about waiting until the report comes out as to if they were meathead redneck young phuks or not...?

Don't get me started on duck shooting, Im sure many of you will know it is genuinely the biggest day of the year in Southland, far bigger than new years or christmas etc. I just stay away as its a tragedy waiting to happen.

I think we have to remember. "Identify your target".
It's pretty simple.
And, it's a "privilege" to own a rifle, not a right.

This sums it up. And for right now I know who is feeling pretty stink about what just happened, locking up for along time is not going to fix anything.

Think 2nd deg murder is a bit far unless they can prove some intent as accidents do happen and that poor bastards gota live with that for rest of life. unless of course it doesn't change him, then charge the bugger.

Yup.

[Swamped]

A yearly security check and chat ie what occurs with restricted arms owners would be good but the cost and difficulty of meeting every a cat holder could mean its just easier to make more rules refer options in previous post. The combination of ease and how it affects the bottom line is all that matters when changing rules.

Your opinion on mental well being is valid but I think if firearm incident stats showed that mental instability played a large part in the total percentage of incidents then there would be a reform. Infact there was wasn't there with the change from the life licence to the 10year idea. Same as a car licence.

following the 7 basic rules appears to be the biggest issue so target that first. Only a test or course could really solve that.

X2 on the making rash assumptions about what the involved parties were or we're not. Let all the info come out first.

[curly12]

following the 7 basic rules appears to be the biggest issue so target that first. Only a test or course could really solve that.

X2 on the making rash assumptions about what the involved parties were or we're not. Let all the info come out first.

As usual those with to much time and no knowledge come out of the woodwork and try to stir shit up.

Even the ones that do know what they are talking about, i.e the police, are suprised and say this is just a strange blip in the amount of accidents. They don't even know why.
Bit like the drowning numbers have peaks and troughs.
At the end of the day the 7 basic rules are what counts and people have to learn that shit happens, stupidity and accidents are out of most peoples controls.
Hang on, new bright idea, lets get ride of the 10 year licence and make it 2 years, um, have mental health reports done on ever person that can get near a firearm or axe, or sharp knife or maybe a car..........

Infact why dont we forbid anyone who has had a bad day from being able to drive, own a gun, use sharp knives and stack shit on shelves in a supermarket( something could fall off and hit someone).

Don't jump to conclusions, let the facts come out and then let informed choices be made. P.S got my licence the day I turned 16 and still remember the rules.
I can see how a half hour chat, once a year, telling you not to shot your mate in the head would work
What ya reckon that we drug test all firearm owner on a yearly basis eh??

Wonder it that would shut a few people up....

[Pedro]

slightly of topic.
am currently in vancouver and went out into the local bush, it was bloody scarey putting it bluntly, there was a constant sound of gun fire in the area, ranging from the small 22 crack to what i can only describe as a cannon type of sound it was a meaty boom, there was machine gun fire,
this is in a area predominatly granite/rock ground, covered in cedar trees, there are quads, motorbikes, crawlers, 4wds, kids etc, we drove past a group, at their feet were hundred of rounds (spent), beer cans, just as many i reckon, these guys rock up, set up a target in the trees and blow the shit out of it, when the target is done, they use beer cans, NZ in comparison is a a very low use area, if the cops got twitchy with tamhiti and his mates, they would shit themselves if they came here.

pedro

[Suza]

Five years ago I decided it was too risky to go hunting at this time year after being shot at (was wearing my high viz vest and all as I had come across the other hunters tracks).
The biggest problem is that this is the only time alot of people go hunting and most of them are in the front contry and that keen to shot something they don't stop to confirm what it is they are shooting at, to back this up would be the 3 deer I got last year after the roar was over that were missing chuncks from being shot at. MSC do some really good Hunts coarses that it would be well worth folks going on

[petefj40]

Wonder it that would shut a few people up....

Why should it, just coz you put your $2 worth in big guy??
You're allowed your say. So are others. It's a public forum last time I checked.
Don't let it upset you to much.
What's wrong with a good old debate? After all. What's stated here isnt going to change anything.

[rangimotors]

I'd rather hunt with a guy that hasnt had his license re-newed for 30 years but actually goes out hunting each week than hunt with a guy with a brand new license, gun and no idea of real world dear hunting in NZ.

And just incase your interested its not a case of you get your license and then they just forget about you. The police still keep a very close eye on you as you will find out if you ever "come to the attention of the police"

The roar is terrible, all the guys that go on about identifing your target who only ever hunt deer once a year, sit at a desk most days and every now and then shoot some small game have absoultley no idea what the "target" even looks like in real world conditions.

You can identify your target as a deer all you want but how many times did you check that its not actually a person with a deer on there back? Learning to hunt and identify your target can not be taught in a class room.

I was once duck shooting with a guy who shot my home made decoy (a real dead duck on a pole) several times. Yes he realised it was a duck but what about the next questions that should be answered before pulling the trigger.

In my opinion just asking one question of "is that my target?" is not enough. What about the "what else could that be?"

[petefj40]

You can identify your target as a deer all you want but how many times did you check that its not actually a person with a deer on there back?

Duh

Because it'll be carried out of the bush on a persons back with its anterlors DOWN.

I haven't shoot a deer but even I know that!

[rangimotors]

You can identify your target as a deer all you want but how many times did you check that its not actually a person with a deer on there back?

Duh

Because it'll be carried out of the bush on a persons back with its anterlors DOWN.

I haven't shoot a deer but even I know that!

Nice, remind me to stay out of the bush if you ever take up deer stalking

[nzhunter]

You can identify your target as a deer all you want but how many times did you check that its not actually a person with a deer on there back?

Duh

Because it'll be carried out of the bush on a persons back with its anterlors DOWN.

I haven't shoot a deer but even I know that!

When I was in deerstalkers they always taught us to identify the sex of the animal rather than to identify whether or not it was actually a deer. This extra bit of time identifying would make sure you knew exactly what you were shooting at


I'm truely guttered to hear this has happened again, and I know what sort of careless people it would have been to have done this (bet they broke at least 3 rules of the arms code). Feel for the families that are affected and even the guy who pulled the trigger, I bet he's bloody miserable about it....

[pruggerdore]

dont own a gun/nor license so Im allowed to be ignorant and not know the 7 rules. what are they.? I dont think any amount of law rules are going to stop the individual being an idiot in the heat of the moment.seems real simple to me, be dam sure of what your target is before you pull the trigger. real simple. Maybe education from hunters of the feelings emotions and thoughts that go thru ones head in the heat of the moment so beginners have some idea what to expect and keep logic in control. say a video made every year sent out to all license holders with updated horror stories from around the world and how things went wrong. graphic pic's of humans with holes in them. new vid/dvd every year so people find it interesting and actually watch it. license holders would have to pay for it of course as part of license fees. it's got to be education as laws dont work and penalize everyone.
maybe gun clubs would enjoy the making gathering of the dvd.
is the problem in NZ related to guns not being very commonplace anymore so people dont naturally grow up knowing how to handle them.
just had a thought, trucks with cameras show wat a truck drivers do or dont do. guns with cameras lol would allow everyone to be scrutinized and check them selfs in the interest of self improvement.

another thought , no shortage of humans maybe you should be allowed to hunt them. now that would be fun untill its your turn too end up with a hole in you,lol. okay must be time to stop thinking. are ya's glad I dont have a gun

[petefj40]

You can identify your target as a deer all you want but how many times did you check that its not actually a person with a deer on there back?

Duh

Because it'll be carried out of the bush on a persons back with its anterlors DOWN.

I haven't shoot a deer but even I know that!

When I was in deerstalkers they always taught us to identify the sex of the animal rather than to identify whether or not it was actually a deer. This extra bit of time identifying would make sure you knew exactly what you were shooting at


I'm truely guttered to hear this has happened again, and I know what sort of careless people it would have been to have done this (bet they broke at least 3 rules of the arms code). Feel for the families that are affected and even the guy who pulled the trigger, I bet he's bloody miserable about it....

It's good to read your feedback.
Thanks.

[mck]

Better off to bone out the meat and put it in your pack, TARGET IDENTIFICATION...

[meece4x4]

Better off to bone out the meat and put it in your pack, TARGET IDENTIFICATION...

yep thats what I do, no way I walk around in the bush with the target animal on my back even kitted out head to toe in Dayglo.



I have to say Im a big fan of more hands on training for firearms .. when I sat mine we watched a video bla bla bla ... but prior to getting my firearms license the biggest thing Id shot prior to that was a .22 under supervision,


pretty scary that once that little bit of card arrives I could then purchase and shoot semiautomatic ex Chinese army weapons with still no real training!!!. or buy a hunting rifle capable of hitting something at 800 yrds! and yet all id done was watch a video and answer some basic questions......

what we need is say a 1/2 day or day long course on the range as part of the test, the arms officers could pick up a lot on how you react around actual live shooting, we can soon pick up the idiots at our club shoots. In fact knowing and practicing basic range/club rules would go a long way to improve safety.

[BigRedCruiser]

Make it so the cops can swing round over to your place and take you out to a range with your rifles. Make sure you can shoot them and use the saftey correctly. Include some quick reaction point and shoot at targets (have a 3-5 second exposure time) that resemble animals and people in cam etc shoot a person loose your licence and its resit time. If you cant distinguish the difference on a range under a bit of pressure you shouldnt have a licence to go hunting in the bush.
If people had that sort of training under real world pressures then this stuff wouldnt happen.
Thats my opinion feel free to tell me how wrong i am.
I do send my sympathy to the families and friends involved thats such a horrible thing to have to go through.

[meece4x4]

Make sure you can shoot them and use the saftey correctly.

just my thoughts on the safety, Never ever trust a safety on a loaded gun, if you use safe hunting practices you should not ever need to use the safety, in fact on certain types of guns the safety is a joke (thinking of the SKS here, no way would i trust the safety on one of those as all it does is pysically block the trigger from begin pulled not the hammer from dropping off the sear under a good jar or dropping the gun)
Your chamber should be empty *ALWAYS* unless you are about to take a shot at your correctly identified target .. if your target moves off or you cant take the shot for whatever reason, you cycle the bolt and empty the chamber straight away and close on an empty chamber again a pain I know but an empty chamber cant accidentally go off if you trip or go ass-over-tit down a steep bank ... don't just slide the safety on and carry on stalking.

that is one of my golden rules while out hunting and anyone that hunts with me follows the same guidelines or I pack up and go home,

[GotFlex]

all i can say is im in the process of getting my liecence and its taking aaaageeeess!!
now if they do some of the suggestions posted above people will never get there guns out as they will be forever waiting to get vetted/checked/signed off and the cost of liecencing will skyrocket.

dont have the time for that! Its pretty simply if your a trigger happy fukwit and kill your best mate you should get a murder charge. best comment on this thread is this one

When I was in deerstalkers they always taught us to identify the sex of the animal rather than to identify whether or not it was actually a deer. This extra bit of time identifying would make sure you knew exactly what you were shooting at