Looking for confirmation about my 'Upgrade Path'

[00falcon]

Hi Guys,

I have had my '99 TJ Wrangler for just on 6 months now.
Amazed at what it can do 'Stock'
She was a 'pretty' sample when i got her (i guess she still is).
She was/is fully stock apart from.

Removing all extra plastics
31" AT Tires
9.5lb Winch
Extra lights

I would like to make her into a more 'capable' unit, and have identified what i beleive is the upgrade path i will take, but would love for you guys to let me know your thoughts.
I still want her comfortable on the road (ish) as she will still be the holiday wagon, but i want to be able to keep up more so with the big boys.


I plan on...

Lift
Body lift
Rims & Tires
Disconnects
then on to next plan

This is the lift i am looking at
http://goo.gl/pXQyP
I understand about the TC Drop

I will need to get a RHD Track-bar Bracket
Will i also need bump stops...?




This is the Body lift i am looking.
http://goo.gl/PQDa9
with the radiator shroud brackets

Im looking at 15 x 10 rims with a 3.75" offset (or backspacing, unsure what the term is)

wrapped in either 33" Buckshot mudders or if i can afford it, 32" Simex extreme's
I will be keeping my current dessert duelers as my touring tires.

From there some JKS disconnects.

This TJ isn't may daily driver, and i plan on installing it all my self.
Now, i do computers, not mechanics, and this will essentially be my first project.
its fine if its off the road for a few weeks while i work on it.
Dont think it will take that long... but... ya never know...

Does this upgrade path feel right...
(i don't want to afford an SYE/DS as yet)
I'm i taking on to much for my first project, I'm a fan of being thrown in the deep-end and either sink or swim (i usually swim ).

I look forward to hearing any comments.

Cheers in advance.

[Coljag]

From what I have learned, ask lots of questions, look at lots of different ones already done and take your time to get it right. You don't want to tackle the same thing more than once. Check out the Wrangler forum, I know it's US but they have done it all and can offer some great advice. Research will save money and heartache. There may be some already done in your part of the country, have a look at theirs and talk to them about what has been done and if they would do anything different.

[TJ]

Glad you are enjoying it. This is my experience and recommendation - do it once and do it properly. Once you introduce changes in the suspension set-up, driveline changes are inevitable.

Rear lower control arms and front upper control arms are not essential unless you go 4"+ lift on a TJ.

For running 33" tyres, you would need to run at least a 3" lift without rubbing and proper full articulation, I would suggest this:
- Front quick disconnects (JKS are best/easiest to use)
- Springs and shocks. I bought mine separately and not part of the kit.
- SYE and rear driveshaft are a definite. I bent my output shaft on a 2.5" OME lift (two mistakes, but I was learning about Jeeps).
- Adjustable rear upper control arms to adjust pinion angle (Rokmen are best).
- Adjustable front lower control arms (Rokmen are the best) to adjust castor and wheelbase.
- Front and rear track bars. http://www.wooders.com.au is a good source for RHD version.
- 1" motor mount lift with rubber bushing (http://www.browndogindustries.com are best)
- Front and rear bumpstop extensions (ARB ones are good and readily available locally)
- Rear tyre carrier to save your tailgate from the weight of a 33" tyre. Many options are available, depends on your budget. ARB bar is beautiful, but a bit pricey unless you get a good deal.
- Air compressor, just mount it under the hood (under the brake master cylinder - that tray is used for ABS equipped later TJs and/or battery for LHD models)

Now comes things that you may also want (but not immediately need):
- Front and rear re-gear to improve crawl ratio. I don't know if yours is a NZ new (i.e. Dana44 with 3.07 gears) or a Jap/UK import (which can be Dana44 or Dana35c with 3.07 or 3.73 gears). If you have an auto (3 speed), you want 4.11 or 4.56 gears. For 5 speed, 4.56 or 4.88 gears. 3 speed auto has no overdrive, hence lower gearing is desired.
- Lockers front and rear (stick with ARBs, much less damaging to everything except to your wallet).
- Winch. A 9.5lb winch might be too small ( ). You may need a 9.5k lb winch.
- Front bar (I am running ARB front bar)
- If you have an auto, deeper transmission pan with a drain plug (Mopar makes one, available at http://www.summitracing.com)

Of course these are not essential as TJs can be made to run 33" with much less work. But if you are going to do it and enjoy full benefits, do it properly. These mods are no different than any other make (don't let them tell you otherwise).

[phraza]

Good stuff man!

I'm more than happy to pop over and talk Jeep crap with ya! As you know mine has a few of the mods that you are looking at doing already!

33's
4" lift
Disconnects
SYE
etc etc

[00falcon]

I'm more than happy to pop over and talk Jeep crap with ya! As you know mine has a few of the mods that you are looking at doing already!

If your keen, I'm more than keen for a mish to woodhill & talk $hit and stuff....

[00falcon]

Glad you are enjoying it. This is my experience and recommendation - do it once and do it properly. Once you introduce changes in the suspension set-up, driveline changes are inevitable.

Cheers TJ.

An SYE/DS isn't off the cards, but i am hoping to lift her a bit to fit new tires (32's or 33's)
The 2" lift with lower control arms should keep the right pinion angles, and a TC drop should keep the DS playing nice... shouldn't it...?
mixed with a 1.25" body lift that would give me room to clear tires...

Do those 2 (3 inc. tires) things this winter, and then maybe a SYE and remove the DC drop next winter.

I don't want to do it cheap, but not made of money.

(and of course, want to play now).

My TJ is...
'99 4.0l 3 speed auto
D44 limited slip rear w/ 3.73 ratio
D30 open up front
All in good nick as far i can tell. i don't think it had even been on a gravel road prior to me getting my hands on it.

Cheers.

P.s. Cheers for the links above.
Where else did you get your parts...?

[WRNGLR]

An SYE/DS isn't off the cards, but i am hoping to lift her a bit to fit new tires (32's or 33's)
The 2" lift with lower control arms should keep the right pinion angles, and a TC drop should keep the DS playing nice... shouldn't it...?
mixed with a 1.25" body lift that would give me room to clear tires...

Do those 2 (3 inc. tires) things this winter, and then maybe a SYE and remove the DC drop next winter.

I don't want to do it cheap, but not made of money.

(and of course, want to play now).

My TJ is...
'99 4.0l 3 speed auto
D44 limited slip rear w/ 3.73 ratio
D30 open up front
All in good nick as far i can tell. i don't think it had even been on a gravel road prior to me getting my hands on it.

Cheers.

P.s. Cheers for the links above.
Where else did you get your parts...?

Please do your Sye and Drive Shaft when you do your lift bud, My 99 TJ had a 2 inch lift and Trans case drop, I got a bad bounce while still on the gas and Slip yoke bound up and snapped shaft just inside rear of trans case and blew the lot to bits,( have pics if needed) very expensive learning curve. So now have same 2 inch lift, trans case back up, Mega short SYE with a modified 92 Hi-Lux drive shaft ( by Howat engineering in Wellington) no need for a double cardan this way, there is a huge amount of movement on the hi-lux yokes. Run 33x12.5x15 on 15x8 steel rims with -24 back space,( won't pass warrant unless you get wider guards or some sort of flare)I put my roadies on for warrant, no rubbing , but have trimmed a inch off the outer of plastic guards so tires don't catch edge when full flexing, have taken out rear sway bar and chucked it away , not needed,

finally sold hard top and my new top from the states is on

, good luck

cheers

Greg

[yeti]

don't fit it out with the bushwhacker flares....decent bar work ..well that's next on my list........seem to go good when a 8s been popped in under the hood






lasted about 5 minutes them flares.......

[TJ]

An SYE/DS isn't off the cards, but i am hoping to lift her a bit to fit new tires (32's or 33's)
The 2" lift with lower control arms should keep the right pinion angles, and a TC drop should keep the DS playing nice... shouldn't it...?

Rear lower control arms do not help with the pinion angle. When you do SYE kit, you have to point your pinion up. This is achieved through longer upper rear control arms. Longer lowers will point the diff yoke further down. Have a read of: http://www.4xshaft.com/selection.html and http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html

Transfer case drop has never made sense to me. A 1" motor mount lift (http://www.browndogindustries.com) does the same thing to the angle at the back of the transfer case. If you think about it, you are lifting your Jeep and then putting bigger tyres on. After all that work, now you want to drop the transfer case back down to reduce the gain? Better to do a SYE and/or motor mount lift (MML). MML lifts the front of the engine (where the mounts are) which point the transfer case yoke downwards (simple geometry).

Ground clearance difference between 32 and 33 is only 1/2 inch.

I have a JB Conversion Super Short kit (http://www.jbconversions.com/products/sye/np231j_short_sye.php) with a Tom Wood shaft. I got them at a good price from US. Go to the start of this thread for my install: http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9701&start=90

mixed with a 1.25" body lift that would give me room to clear tires...

Rather than do the body lift, which is not necessary, you can achieve the same thing with adjusting your bumpstops. All you are trying to do is limit your upward travel of tyres to not damage the guards and bodywork.

Do those 2 (3 inc. tires) things this winter, and then maybe a SYE and remove the DC drop next winter.

I don't want to do it cheap, but not made of money.

(and of course, want to play now).

On a 2"/2.5" lift, SYE can be delayed a little but its a matter of time before the output shaft either breaks or bends due to metal fatigue.

My TJ is...
'99 4.0l 3 speed auto
D44 limited slip rear w/ 3.73 ratio
D30 open up front
All in good nick as far i can tell. i don't think it had even been on a gravel road prior to me getting my hands on it.

Cheers.

P.s. Cheers for the links above.
Where else did you get your parts...?

Have you checked that it is 3.73 ratio? NZ new specs were D44 with 3.07 gears. Vendors I use very frequently:

http://www.quadratec.com (for a lot of stuff)
http://www.summitracing.com (for a lot of stuff, not on quadratec)
http://www.rockauto.com (wonderful and cheap source of parts)
http://www.rokmen.com (I have their control arms and gas tank skid)
http://www.browndogindustries.com (motor mount lift)
http://www.wooders.com.au (RHD specific items)

Hope this helps.

[WRNGLR]

don't fit it out with the bushwhacker flares....decent bar work ..well that's next on my list........seem to go good when a 8s been popped in under the hood






lasted about 5 minutes them flares.......

good candidate for those cool flat fenders xj built up for his I reckon

[TJ]

So now have same 2 inch lift, trans case back up, Mega short SYE with a modified 92 Hi-Lux drive shaft ( by Howat engineering in Wellington) no need for a double cardan this way, there is a huge amount of movement on the hi-lux yokes.

Greg, hilux driveshaft would have a double cardan joint at the transfer case end to work regardless of how much movement there is in yokes. Do you have a photo of your driveshaft, I am just curious on the design.

On a side note, you can get a front driveshaft off a Wrangler or Cherokee and have it shortened to fit the rear on a Wrangler after SYE. TJ and XJ front driveshafts already have double cardan joints from factory.

[yeti]

good candidate for those cool flat fenders xj built up for his I reckon

.
.
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thats my thinking...bounce around trees .....will have to have a yarn to mark....

[TJ]

lasted about 5 minutes them flares.......

Looks like time for something like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/freakjeep/4666214235/in/set-72157624161865926

[TJ]

good candidate for those cool flat fenders xj built up for his I reckon

.
.
.
thats my thinking...bounce around trees .....will have to have a yarn to mark....

[yeti]

lasted about 5 minutes them flares.......

Looks like time for something like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/freakjeep/4666214235/in/set-72157624161865926

yep thats cool..have got some links from a yank forum...waiting for them to post how they built em....will post in barbie thread when get em..............sorry for highjack 00

[TJ]

yep thats cool..have got some links from a yank forum...waiting for them to post how they built em....will post in barbie thread when get em..............sorry for highjack 00

Here is a guy at JF who has built his own: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/jeeptubes-diy-tube-fender-install-1072130/index3.html

The problem with them would be no give when you bump something. Damage/impact goes straight to the fender itself. Ofcourse, a bit of bar work around it can strengthen them further.

[WRNGLR]

So now have same 2 inch lift, trans case back up, Mega short SYE with a modified 92 Hi-Lux drive shaft ( by Howat engineering in Wellington) no need for a double cardan this way, there is a huge amount of movement on the hi-lux yokes.

Greg, hilux driveshaft would have a double cardan joint at the transfer case end to work regardless of how much movement there is in yokes. Do you have a photo of your driveshaft, I am just curious on the design.

On a side note, you can get a front driveshaft off a Wrangler or Cherokee and have it shortened to fit the rear on a Wrangler after SYE. TJ and XJ front driveshafts already have double cardan joints from factory.

I have a flange on end of output shaft that bolts straight to flange on drive shaft, and the same at the diff end, no double cardan between trans case and diff, will get some pics tomorrow, and put them up on this thread, am at work tonight.

cheers
Greg

oh hang on found some on the interweb

This is like my rear drive shaft ( modified Toyota )


this is double cardan


hope that sheds some light, please correct me if I'm wrong

cheers
Greg

but will still take pics of mine tomorrow

[vitara888]

I think you will find a double carden jiont in your driveshaft, Howie uses the front driveshaft from a Hilux to get the CV jiont.

[WRNGLR]

I think you will find a double carden jiont in your driveshaft, Howie uses the front driveshaft from a Hilux to get the CV jiont.

ok here is what I have as a rear drive shaft on my 99 TJ Wrangler, made by Brian Howatt in Wellington, from a rear drive shaft off a 92 toyota Hi-lux

[WRNGLR]

I think you will find a double carden jiont in your driveshaft, Howie uses the front driveshaft from a Hilux to get the CV jiont.

ok here is what I have as a rear drive shaft on my 99 TJ Wrangler, made by Brian Howatt in Wellington, from a rear drive shaft off a 92 toyota Hi-lux

perhaps a bigger pic

[TJ]

Hmmm, thats an interesting take on the driveshaft, particularly for a short wheelbase rear. I have seen flange style kits for the transfer case before, but they have almost always come with a driveshaft that still has a double cardan joint towards the top (this is a Rubicon driveshaft that comes with a flange from the factory on NP241 transfer case):



I would have thought axle drop would bind the u-joints at both ends, a DC allows more movement without binding. Great if its working for you. It just goes to prove, every Jeep is different.

[WRNGLR]

with the u joints on the hi-lux the yokes are very long so absolutely no binding , cruiser and prado ones are shorter I think, but I do only have a 2 inch lift and rear sway bars out, if I went higher , say to a 4 inch maybe then I would have some trouble, but won't be going any higher so all good.

cheers
Greg

[phraza]

i wouldn't have a clue what one i have. i can take a pic though haha

[phraza]

I'm more than happy to pop over and talk Jeep crap with ya! As you know mine has a few of the mods that you are looking at doing already!

If your keen, I'm more than keen for a mish to woodhill & talk $hit and stuff....

Yea sweet, im off to Singapore next weekend for a week, but when i get back we'll catch up!

[WRNGLR]

i wouldn't have a clue what one i have. i can take a pic though haha

I'm pretty sure when Brent owned it he put in a Standard slip yoke eliminator and double cardan driveshaft, when you picked up half doors I had a look under and saw it then, double cardan part is at the transfer case end. Hows the beasty going anyway mate, ya still don't want to buy my soft top bow do ya. Going cheap

[xj]

good candidate for those cool flat fenders xj built up for his I reckon

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thats my thinking...bounce around trees .....will have to have a yarn to mark....

I looked at those before making mine. As cool as they are, theyd still need conveyor or something added on to get them legallay wide enough for a WOF, hence making my own.
also, the back of mine bolted into the chassis rail, I dont think any of the American ones I looked at with the extended bit of panel did.

[phraza]

i wouldn't have a clue what one i have. i can take a pic though haha

I'm pretty sure when Brent owned it he put in a Standard slip yoke eliminator and double cardan driveshaft, when you picked up half doors I had a look under and saw it then, double cardan part is at the transfer case end. Hows the beasty going anyway mate, ya still don't want to buy my soft top bow do ya. Going cheap

Ah sweet! Well it works good anyway, haven't had any problems with it!

The beast is going good! Still love the sound of it when i start it up in the morning! And still love getting looks when i take it into Auck city every day!

Haha nah, soft top is low on my list of mods

[yeti]

I looked at those before making mine. As cool as they are, theyd still need conveyor or something added on to get them legallay wide enough for a WOF, hence making my own.
also, the back of mine bolted into the chassis rail, I dont think any of the American ones I looked at with the extended bit of panel did.[/quote]


http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/fabwe ... stall.html

like the look of this gear....................might have to have a yarn with tom...

[00falcon]

OK...

I'm confused now...

I went a saw an ARB agent, and he said he had done a few TJ lifts most at 2" and never had the need to do an SYE.
The TC drop was enough.
He even said he got away with a 4" lift with no SYE.

I know, if you go looking for horror stories, you will find horror stories.
I would like to do the lift, and the SYE later (ie, next year) to remove the TC drop.

Does anyone here have a TJ with a TC drop...?
What (if anything) have you noticed...?

Cheers

[xj]

I had the TJ running for ages on a 4 inch lift and just the tc drop with no problems.

Issues occur 1) when offroad and flexing = increased d/s angle = potential bent ooutput shaft and 2) when offroading the "shovel" x-member is bad enough catching on things, another inch lower with a t/c drop and ya may as well stick to the bitumin.

Put in the sye and a small body lift and you can tummy tuck that puppy and never worry about being high-centered again.