V6 springs + VL Commadore shocks

[crzyfl]

I used springs from a V6 vitara for my lift.
For rear shocks I put on VL commodore shocks.

Went for a WOF (cert guy advised I had to first before cert).

Mechanic told me that the articulation was too much and the springs are not attached securely. There is a danger the springs will come out at full articulation. It seemed reasonable as he put it on the hoist and the springs were just over the bump stops. Longer springs would fix it.

the cheap lift usually uses C33 laurel springs in the rear.

Are these a much longer spring than the V6 spring? I will get a set that will fix my issue. Otherwise will bigger bump tops be the cure?

The front looks slightly higher than the back currently and I have yet to fit some front axle drop brackets which will lift the front further.

Ideas?

[butcherboy]

let me know where you get the diff drop brackets from i use a 35mm lift spring allround(400 brand new) but the front is lower on mine hopefully diff drop might help

[Lynx]

Longer bump stops will stop your springs coming loose at full artic, but will limit articulation, and i assume you would still fail a wof, as on the hoist it will be at full droop, therefore only shorter shocks, or longer springs will sort your issue. Or theres some sort for spring retainers you could use. Longer springs would be the easiest, shorter shocks would be the second easiest.

Cheers Daniel

[crzyfl]

Thanks for the advice guys. Michael from runva (winch.co.nz) is importing some FTS drop brackets, due soon.

Sounds like I should try some C33 rear laurel springs.

[crzyfl]

Do C33 rear laurel springs seat properly?

what is their uncompressed length?
and compression rate

EDIT C33 springs are 400mm
Don't know their spring rate.

My VL shocks are 665mm uncompressed, 400mm compressed

rear stock spring rate
273mm
rate 156.5 lbs

front stock spring rate
273mm
rate 452.8 lbs

[kernels]

I would stick with the springs you have and get some shorter shocks. For certification the springs are not allowed to be able to rotate when at full articulation, so they always have to be "held" top and bottom.

[churchill]

I would stick with the springs you have and get some shorter shocks. For certification the springs are not allowed to be able to rotate when at full articulation, so they always have to be "held" top and bottom.

Yeah thats what the wof guy will be worried about.

I wonder if spring spacers are allowed? they would fix your problem as well as giving you more lift.

[crzyfl]

Thanks guys. I had the same thought. I have ordered spring spacers from bits4vits.

The front tires rub at full lock if there is any articulation in the front at all.

Hopefully the spacers will give the extra clearance required.

The back is not as high as the front also.

I am interested in what length the C33 springs are uncompressed and their spring rate.

When I was investigating spring options initially EFS and ARB advised that their lifts only gave 30mm.

I would be very interested to know the spring rate for standard V6 springs.

They seemed to be the same length as the standard ones I took out.

I should have measured the travel of the VL shocks to compare when I put them in.

Of course I did it all in a hurry, and didn't have the time...

Extra lift would be possible (provided one wanted to pay for new springs) if the lifted V6 springs were used.

[crzyfl]

Here is a pic. Hopefully you can see the back is not high enough compared to the front.

[crzyfl]

By the way the V6 springs seat perfectly. I am very happy with them in the front. But because the back is not lifted as much would like to change the rear springs to some that give more lift.

[crzyfl]

EFS springs;

V6 25mm lift

front 295mm spring rate 540 lbs
rear 345mm rate 145 lbs

[crzyfl]

I am waiting on some C33 springs to arrive. When they arrive I will measure them.

[Pico42]

Here is a pic. Hopefully you can see the back is not high enough compared to the front.

IMG_3800.JPG

Do you get much rubbing with that setup?

[crzyfl]

Not on the outer guard. At full steering lock there is rubbing on the inside of the guard when the front end flexes. I will reassess when I put the spacers in for the front if any needs cut out of the outside.

[Filthy4x4]

hey mate factory zuk shocks vs vl commie shocks are supposed to be a 50mm difference in extended length.

Heres a pic of the VR commie shocks I put into my escudo compared to the old worn escudo shocks.



Cheers

Caleb

[crzyfl]

Got some Bits4Vits spring spacers, and C33 springs in finally.

Here is the result...

[dtchch]

Looks good mate

What spacers did you get and did they sort that wee bit of rub in the front out? Did you drop diffs or need to extend anything?

I'd like to do the same on mine one day

[crzyfl]

I got the spacers from bits4vits.
Very happy with them, the springs seat into them well.
http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/vitara ... rod_3.html

Waiting on the drop brackets to arrive, they are FTS ones. They are certainly necessary, as the CV angles are getting quite severe now.

Rub is sorted. I put the bumper back on, so I was less of a target for the law, but due to the body lift the wheels are hitting that sometimes now. It would be fixed if I made up some brackets to raise the number to meet the body again, but that bumper is temporary till I get a tube bumper made up.

But overall quite happy with the result.

Regarding 'cheap lift' vs lift kits. If the kit contains all of the bits to correct the effect of stiffer/longer springs then I have observed that the value is not bad.

My suspension/lift upgrades have cost $1360.
I will measure again the clearance from ground to bottom of body. If someone has a stock measurement?

[crzyfl]

Went for a cert last friday.
With the c33 springs, spacers and VL shocks the springs are still not captive. I am interested in hearing who has the shock bracket that bits4vits or fts sell and if it could be used to slightly reduce the shock travel if used around the other way.
Also my stock brake lines are too short now - failed the cert on that too, plus the steering knuckle in the front needs spacers in it ala bits4vits.

[crzyfl]

Down the track a bit. Ordered bumper brackets and steering spacer from bits4vits looking for good value brake lines. Outdoor auto in aussie has them as does jimnybits in uk. Will find out how much from enzed guy too.

Low range offroad has wide range of shocks, can get them for many different compressed/uncompressed lengths.

My current plan is to get brake lines, new struts, trailing arms, and shocks for back.

[kernels]

I think for the front brake lines I just put another hole through the metal body and dropped where the brake line went through, although, if you have massive front articulation this might not be enough for you.

[crzyfl]

Thanks Kernels!
Cert guy only pointed out rear brake lines, but I will catch up with him about the front.

[spanky]

put 5 door handbrake cables on aswell as the the std are to short.

[Pico42]

I think for the front brake lines I just put another hole through the metal body and dropped where the brake line went through, although, if you have massive front articulation this might not be enough for you.

This is what we did too. Very simple, very quick.

[Pico42]

Went for a cert last friday.
With the c33 springs, spacers and VL shocks the springs are still not captive. I am interested in hearing who has the shock bracket that bits4vits or fts sell and if it could be used to slightly reduce the shock travel if used around the other way.
Also my stock brake lines are too short now - failed the cert on that too, plus the steering knuckle in the front needs spacers in it ala bits4vits.

If you are talking about the shock repositioner, I don't think they can be used to shorten up the travel - see the photo.


Our springs were captured nicely using OME shocks with the repositioners, but I will probably put some 25mm extensions on to extend downward travel as we still have some travel available.

As above, 5dr handbrake cables are a good idea as well.

[crzyfl]

Thanks Pico,
My springs are not captive with the same spacers as yours, but with the VL shocks. I have ordered the new spring spacers from Bits4Vits to go in with the existing ones, and some shock mount repositions from Michael at Winch.co.nz.

Will order struts from Michael as well as they have camber correction (like OME), but they are 2.5" larger than stock, which should match better than the 30mm OME ones. See how we go.

[crzyfl]

By the way,
The guy from 4xfourart will sell the front wishbone/control arms separate to the rest of his 3" suspension kit. If I started again, I would use these, castor correction bushes (bits4vits) and the hagen mod to clear the wheel arches. Could avoid cutting?

One could do these things with 3" springs and avoid hitting their 31s on their arches.

[crzyfl]

Added today;

- 3" FTS struts on front.
- More spring spacers.
- FTS Control arms on back.
- FTS shock repositioners.
- Jimnybits extended brakelines.

Measured ground to wing mirror - 1235mm
Measured ground to bottom of tail light - 895mm

Somehow the body is tilted.

Measured length of VL shocks,
665/410mm extended/compressed

Rear springs still not captive (because the repositioners negate the new spacers).

Kept the strut spacers on top of the new struts.

Camber is not able to be corrected in spite of the struts having compensation as the strut spacers mess it up again.

For the camber to be corrected then, I need to go for new control arms, or remove the strut spacers, and maybe the spring spacers too.

In the back there are two choices too, new shocks,or new springs...

The front is a bit high compared to the back.

Need the handbrake cables too...(anyone wanting to sell some)

Boy there is a heap of travel...Pics tomorrow.

[DEATH_INC]

How much are they uncaptured by? I'd just get shorter shocks (easy method), they aren't that expensive. They do a shorter vb-vn holden shock for lowered one's, or it'll be easy to match something up, they run a common mount configuration.
What about a clamp of some sort to hold the ends of the spring down so they can't lift off the seat? Pretty sure I've seen tomsoffroad (or someone) mention them before...
Where are you?

[crzyfl]

They're un-captured by 10-15mm.

After I flexed it out, the camber has settled in nicely too.

Here is lots of pics