Excessive worm gear wear Toyota PTO

[kbushnz]

Well this one has me stumped....
When I did the mid mount PTO I end for ended the worm drive and also the brass gear...

Decided to change the bearings as they had a little play....Nothing out of the ordinary as compared to other drives I had looked at...
(Note its only done about 20 good winches at the Superwinch 24hr challenge)
The oil came out black! and once I got into the housing it was full of bronze slithers and fine particles...

So the question is....
Did I just use the wrong gear oil (did a search of the forum and think I have)
I used a synthetic gear oil that I used in my Diffs (Amsoil) which says it doesn't attack bronze gears.....But may not be appropriate for the sliding forces as suggested in some of the other posts on this forum.....

Or when I end for ended the worm and flipped the big bronze gear (so the teeth stayed in the same relation to each other... did it move its position off center ????

I know it got real hot as you could smell the oil after each hard winch......
Note it turned easily by hand.....

I have another winch to compare but thought I would throw this out there....

[crazyclark31]

I'd say the oil is a bit light. i have always used the morays heavy duty oilstabiliser stuff. Have always had a bit of bronze flakes in the oil when it gets changed(bout once every year). One of them is ten years old and still going strong.
Pretty sure turning the worm and the gear around would effect it.
Reckon its just the wrong oil

[tweake]

imho wrong oil. worm drives use special oil as the action is sliding where normal gear oil HP additives don't work.
mory's has some http://www.moreyoil.co.nz/guardian-fm-gear-oil/
and if i remember right its not all that dear either. be far cheaper than your synthetic oil.

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

The oil will be doing it, I had the same problem but then changed to a heavy grade oil which traction engines etc use to protect the bronze.

Heres what i use now got direct from elf.


Never had any flakes or problems since using this oil.

[tweake]

that reductelf oil is worm drive oil. not sure what thickness you would need for pto tho.

[kbushnz]

Thanks guys.... looking closely at the gear, it looks like it was being sliced off the face... So will tidy up the dags and give it a clean out...
New bearings and pick up a 5 L bottle of oil...
ADL sells it, now just what grade to get....

[monstr]

Hi Calvin in the past i used either Carter EP680 or Elf Reductelf SP680 their both about the consistency of golden syrup .never had excessive wear problems .in a blonde moment and after a bit of advise i changed to moreys and have killed 2 winches (doesn't seem to handle shock loading or heat to well)so have now changed back to the elf product .you can buy it direct from them in south Auck .from memory a 5ltr container was around $45

[kbushnz]

Hi Calvin in the past i used either Carter EP680 or Elf Reductelf SP680 their both about the consistency of golden syrup .never had excessive wear problems .in a blonde moment and after a bit of advise i changed to moreys and have killed 2 winches (doesn't seem to handle shock loading or heat to well)so have now changed back to the elf product .you can buy it direct from them in south Auck .from memory a 5ltr container was around $45

Thanks Steve, will give them a ring... I must have used the wrong oil..... Grrrrrrr But I have a backup.....
Should get some more life out of it.....Its just had an aggressive bed in hahahahahaha

[Sadam_Husain]

better dig your sludge gun out if your putting that 680 shit in it wont pour out of the bottle

[tweake]

... i changed to moreys and have killed 2 winches...

what moreys did you use?

680 sounds way to thick. i think we used 320 on our reduction gearboxes. but they go from about 4 rpm to 100 rpm.

[Sadam_Husain]

what moreys did you use?

680 sounds way to thick. i think we used 320 on our reduction gearboxes. but they go from about 4 rpm to 100 rpm.

680 is what nissan specify for their pto winches, toyota specify SAE90

[sibainmud]

Hey Calvin,
This PTO drive sounds just like marine anchor winch gear boxes that i have played with for years. The early Maxwell's used a semi-fluid grease.
I have a large pot of this stuff still and it is sold by the Kg.
I think it was call Track Grease (TC). You have to spoon or syringe this stuff in.
You are welcome to call around and look at it. I'm not working much at the mo, so anytime would suit. (DTI could come for a drive too)

Cheers,

[kbushnz]

Hey Calvin,
This PTO drive sounds just like marine anchor winch gear boxes that i have played with for years. The early Maxwell's used a semi-fluid grease.
I have a large pot of this stuff still and it is sold by the Kg.
I think it was call Track Grease (TC). You have to spoon or syringe this stuff in.
You are welcome to call around and look at it. I'm not working much at the mo, so anytime would suit. (DTI could come for a drive too)

Cheers,

Hi Simon
Yes I need to get that DTI to you...
Thanks for the offer........But I will go with the elf oil Steve uses... As his winch gets used in comps and all manner of club stuff / track setting and has a good track record.....
I should have measured how much fluid went in...
Then I can spoon in the same volume before I put the side cover back on.....
I might just do a dummy run with some engine oil.....and work out the approx amount.....

[kbushnz]

Pulled it apart completely, bronze gear is a bit of a mess but will dress out the worst of the damage and turn it around so its winching in on the good face....
But the steel worm has a wear ridge in the lead in section... Will blend it out also as best as one can.
Throw it all back together with some proper oil...
Its going to be on borrowed time me thinks....
But I have a spare under the house.... So might as well get my moneys worth out of this one.....
And I have the electric as a backup......
One lives and learns