Which intercooler or maybe water injection

[tweake]

its something i looked at years ago but project got shelved.
the denco/pwr barrel IC's seam to be small for the application and they are not a great design. they will certainly take a bit of the heat out, especially if its only stock boost, but for the price i couldn't justify it.
my memory i think at the time there was a few guys running dual barrels to get enough cooling.

if prepared to spend the big $$$ then i would certainly look at ARE as you will certainly get the best.

there is another crowd around thats meant to be very good but it will be a generic not a kit. i'll see if i can find who.

[tweake]

https://www.plazmaman.com/shop_list.php?cate=37
is the other one. but you will have to make pipes to suit.

[tweake]

also looks like http://www.northside4x4.com.au makes a kit. there handy work is generally very good.

[Diorama]

also looks like http://www.northside4x4.com.au makes a kit. there handy work is generally very good.

Both the kits you mentioned are an option but the front mount radiator size is the problem with running a trans cooler. Is the reason the Denco ones don't perform due to their radiator size. No point buying one due to it fitting if it dosen't perform. Real knowledge is appreciated to make a proper decission. Sounds like I may need to think some more.

[tweake]

fit what ever radiator size you like. bigger is better.
i personally would not bother shipping a radiator over here as they are easy to get here or get one made to suit your requirements.

the problem with denco/pwr is the size of the IC/barrel rather than the radiator. compare their size to ARE or Northside.

[Diorama]

fit what ever radiator size you like. bigger is better.
i personally would not bother shipping a radiator over here as they are easy to get here or get one made to suit your requirements.

the problem with denco/pwr is the size of the IC/barrel rather than the radiator. compare their size to ARE or Northside.

Had a look at the size difference and yes there is a definate difference but I would have thought the main performance factor would be the volume of cool water flowing through it to transfer the heat away. The deciding factor would then become the front mount radiators ability to offload heat. A larger barrel wouldn't perform better if the radiator and water volume couldn't perform. Therfore going for a larger barrel or any larger unit on top wouldn't necessarily be better. It may just take slightly longer to heat up when first starting due to the larger initial water volume in the system. Am I right or am I wrong. I know our compressors here at work have relitively small coolers but have multiple large banks of fan cooled radiators to get rid of the heat from the system

[tweake]

biggest factor is often the IC. if thats to small it doesn't matter how good the rest is its not going to cool well and won't cool well ALL of the time.
if water flow is to low or radiator is to small, the water temp will increase over time which will cause incoming air temp to rise. but water holds a lot of heat so it will take a while for temps to go up. by that time you could be over the hill and off the gas. have a look at the systems pitched at petrol engines, the radiators are tiny as they are full throttle for such short period of time that the heatsink effect works in their favor.

so small radiator will only effect temps on a long climb.

if your stuck with radiator width you can use a thicker radiator which gives extra mass (more water) and gives water more time to cool down. downside is it limits air flow through to the engines radiator.

also you can add a bigger tank which adds mass.

[Diorama]

biggest factor is often the IC. if thats to small it doesn't matter how good the rest is its not going to cool well and won't cool well ALL of the time.
if water flow is to low or radiator is to small, the water temp will increase over time which will cause incoming air temp to rise. but water holds a lot of heat so it will take a while for temps to go up. by that time you could be over the hill and off the gas. have a look at the systems pitched at petrol engines, the radiators are tiny as they are full throttle for such short period of time that the heatsink effect works in their favor.

so small radiator will only effect temps on a long climb.

if your stuck with radiator width you can use a thicker radiator which gives extra mass (more water) and gives water more time to cool down. downside is it limits air flow through to the engines radiator.

also you can add a bigger tank which adds mass.

Petrol engines are not on boost anywhere as much of the time as a diesel so can't really compare the size against each other. The other concern is that I am towing a 3.5T boat up long hill climbs which is the reason for doing all my mods so the extra water capacity won't take long to heat up. I basically need a top mount unit that is designed to give the best heat transfer which would mean a unit with maximum surface area contact between the intake air and the water and then put as big a radiator as I can fit. Thats probably why the other units are physically larger than the barrel style. They would provide more surface contact between the water and air.
Good discussion the light bulb is starting to flicker

[Diorama]

The other thing to consider is that if there is a large volume of water sitting in the intercooler on top of the engine there is a large amount of engine bay heat that can be absorbed. If this water volume was reduced and the main capacity was exterior to the engine bay this heat would not get transfered to the same extent.

[tweake]

absolutely correct.

as far as IC heating up from engine bay temps, you can wrap it in thermal insulation ie header wrap.

[strx7]

if you are slugging a 3.5 tonne boat up long hills IMHO you NEED water and meths injection, it is the only way to keep the EGTs TRUELY under control.

30-35% alcohol for the power and 65-70% water for the cooling.

that is on top of a big bore and intercooler

[Diorama]

if you are slugging a 3.5 tonne boat up long hills IMHO you NEED water and meths injection, it is the only way to keep the EGTs TRUELY under control.

30-35% alcohol for the power and 65-70% water for the cooling.

that is on top of a big bore and intercooler

Been lugging the boat for a while with nothing so will take one step at a time. Best way to control EGT is lift the right foot and change gears. Sort out the intercooler first and see how it performs. Already have the big bore.

[strx7]

how slow to do get down to by lifting the foot and changing down a gear?

when i'm towing i like to feel like i'm going fowards even up hills, no matter how steep they are.

what hills do you tow up, is it the kaimais and bombays or some other set of hills from the waikato that i dont know about?
is your cruiser a manual?

[fullthrottle]

Have a talk to the guys at www.ripsltd.com they do some nice work for that kind of money

[crazyclark31]

sorry to go off topic but if your going to this effort to reduce heat due to the trucks work load going up hills maybe you need to be looking at something that has a bigger towing capacity?

IMHO i think that the weight your towing is above the strength parameiters of the trans hence needing a massive trans cooler plus fan to keep the friction heat down.

Maybe even considering going to a manual truck and/or lower gearing might make the truck go better on the hills and reduce the temps.
Also what size tyre are you running?

[xj]

Also what size tyre are you running?

diorama staes earier in this thread hes got 35s and sometimes 37s.

whats got a bigger towing capacity than 3500kg in a 4x4?


Anyway, another semi related question. ive been looking at boost and intercooler options too, looking at towing trailer and cut up landy behind the 1hdt. Only have 31's on it, what liklihood is there of a stock truck getting this transmission overheating issue, and if so why the fuk do they rate the towing capacity at more than what the machine can handle?

[crazyclark31]

Also what size tyre are you running?

diorama staes earier in this thread hes got 35s and sometimes 37s.

whats got a bigger towing capacity than 3500kg in a 4x4?


Anyway, another semi related question. ive been looking at boost and intercooler options too, looking at towing trailer and cut up landy behind the 1hdt. Only have 31's on it, what liklihood is there of a stock truck getting this transmission overheating issue, and if so why the fuk do they rate the towing capacity at more than what the machine can handle?

with 31 you should be okay but as with any auto you should run an external cooler.

[crazyclark31]

if your running big tyres aare you running lower ratio diffs? You'd be surprised the diff in performance it makes

[xj]

Also what size tyre are you running?

diorama staes earier in this thread hes got 35s and sometimes 37s.

whats got a bigger towing capacity than 3500kg in a 4x4?


Anyway, another semi related question. ive been looking at boost and intercooler options too, looking at towing trailer and cut up landy behind the 1hdt. Only have 31's on it, what liklihood is there of a stock truck getting this transmission overheating issue, and if so why the fuk do they rate the towing capacity at more than what the machine can handle?

with 31 you should be okay but as with any auto you should run an external cooler.

Yeah, theres two external coolers plumbed in already. The previous owner lugged double horsefloats all over the show and had it done. But the previous owner also rebuilt the engine and trans after the trans shat itself. Kinda hoping the coolers went in at that stage and hadnt been in before the mishap.

[strx7]

a vehicle being rated to tow 3500kg and being able to tow 3500kg up long hills are two different things. if you tow 3500kg alot, IMHO you'd be better off using something like one of those big US SUV type things with a 6. something diesel turbo in it. There trans will be considerably bigger than a cruisers one.

IMHO a 3500kg boat isn't a "trailer boat" it is more of a boat, on a trailer, than a "trailer boat". bit like the tow ratings. If i was towing 3500kg i'd want to be in something that weighed 4000+kg itself

[tweake]

and here i am with 1 ton load on the deck and pulling 2.5-3 ton trailer with the little old navara. most people recommend going to patrol or landcruiser for that weight

tow ratings are more about vehicles weight and braking. tho some manufacturers do under rate their vehicles due to problems with gearboxes etc. thats simply so they can get out of warranty claims.

if your going to be constantly pushing things to the limits you are better off modding it suit the usage. a good transcooler and intercooler is a must have.

[Diorama]

Some people haven't read the previous posts so here we go. When I bought the 80 series 1HDT cruiser it was on 37's with the fuel wound up. I turned the fuel down as it was smoking too much. I am currently running 35's. I have re-done the diff ratios and fitted an ARB diff lock at the same time so they are all good. It also has a big bore exhaust. Have installed a big mother of a trans cooler with an aux fan in front that I can turn on if needed as I overheated the trans before I started towing the boat. For those that haven't read previous posts the boat I'm now towing is getting up to 3.5T when loaded. Suspect the trans was on its way out when I bought it as it smelt pretty hot and fumy on a trip and it wasn't coming from the engine. The factory trans light came on one day heading up the Mamakus with just a load of dive bottles in the back and it cost me 4.5K for a full rebuild. After the rebuild I installed a trans temp gauge and it gets up to around 220F. If it gets any hotter I pull over and select low range (have done the trans mod so centre diff lock does not engage unless dash button is selected). This brings the temp right back to 180F. I probably don't need to do this but after spending 4.5K on the trans I don't want to over work it and it only adds an extra 10min to the trip. I can do the hill climbs in high range okay by holding it in forth for as long as possible but this will increase the EGT's. If I select third which will be better for the EGT's the trans temp rises so prefer low range which means neither are working at all. Factory trans temp light comes on at 300F and goes out again at 240F so I figured if I stay well under that I will be okay and as the oil break down is faster the hotter it gets I don't need to change oil as often in trans. Have just finished putting in EGT (pre turbo) and boost gauges. The EGT was getting above 750C which is getting into danger zone for sustained hauling up long hills. (i.e Mamakus). Kaimis and Bombays are fine as they are only short sharp runs where as the Mamakus is a long haul. Have installed boost tee and boosted it to 13psi (it was 10psi which is standard from factory. Not sure what I can safetly boost this too with standard turbo maybe someone in the know could advise) and increased the off boost fuel. I now struggle to get the EGT's to 700C. What a different truck so much more power and no smoke. Still not enough room to safetly increase the fuel hence I want to put in an intercooler. I don't have overheating problems as I monitor everything and drive within the trucks parameters. As far as the towing goes the truck is fitted with eaxhaust brakes and the boat trailer is fitted with an in cab control sensa brake system so stops faster with the boat on than without. As I am going to have this boat and cruiser for a long time I just want to do everything I can to look after it and make it last. The cruiser is definatly up to the job and its also set up for offroad so hence why I don't want a big Yank tank. I also use it to launch a 5m tinny off beaches and with the 6inch lift kit that is fitted we back the tinny down rocks up the Corammandal so theres not many places we can't launch. Hope this explains it all. As far as Intercoolers go I want to go water to air for ease of running the pipes to the front. I want to put in a good unit that will perform well in view of getting the EGT's down more to allow room to increase the fuel. Don't want to waste money on a unit that dosen't perform but am happy to spend the coin if it does. So I really want to hear from people who have run these intercoolers and can lead me in the best direction to get good performance for the buck. I was steering towards the denco kit as it has the front mount radiator that will fit with my trans cooler but as mentioned by someone I can get that size radiator here in NZ and fit it to any of the other brand intercoolers so am now open to suggestions for the best intercooler. Will put up some photos of the mods shortly (just waiting for the new trans temp gauge to arrive to match the EGT and Boost gauges and then they will all be in degC instead of degF for the trans) and you will see why I want to keep the truck.

[crazyclark31]

that makes things nice and clear.
I think you could safely go to 17psi with an intercooler.
Can't help with the water /air cooler as i've always used air to air.

Sounds like you've got a well setup rig.
By the way what type of snorkel you using? the old small safari type or the new bigger airflow? Just asking as the older type are a bit on the small size. esp if uping the boost.

[Diorama]

that makes things nice and clear.
I think you could safely go to 17psi with an intercooler.
Can't help with the water /air cooler as i've always used air to air.

Sounds like you've got a well setup rig.
By the way what type of snorkel you using? the old small safari type or the new bigger airflow? Just asking as the older type are a bit on the small size. esp if uping the boost.

No Snorkel might have to add it to the future list. With the 6" lift kit I haven't needed to launch the boat with the truck under water yet