Managing tracks, not tyre size. by Peter Vahry

[muddyhilux]

just to add my 2c ive been on 29s,30s,31s,33s and 35s.guess what im going to next....37s and why.cos every time i increase size i get places easier and with less stress on the truck (powered by a 350 chev which would have no issue ripping things to pieces) and you wouldnt believe it but less track damage too .like said on various posts this muzzaduck is just here to stir sh!T and obviously has had some bad experiences

[keithal]

somebody still isnt "getting" the fact that a light truck eg suzuki on 31's has the same clearance as a safari/cruiser on 35's

if you read his post history he's only signed up here to have a wind up and flame some old threads up mate

Its a bit dissapointing that everyone else can behave constructively and realise that other people have valid opinions and your own opinion isnt nessecarily right... the jokers probably got a few good ideas but as far as his internet posting goes he's just another plonker

ahh yes a forum noob here to stir shit up i gotcha now
i agree its a bit of a shame everyone else seems to be on a similar page but said noob

[KIWI_TERRANO]

I am a farmer and i work for high country farmer, we ran 34inch mongrel tyres there a simex look a like, i guess if we disnt use 4wd we could rip and stuff tracks up but water is always the problem for track maintence, we always have hunter through they can do what every they wont while on track cause we couldnt record who does what but it was never there fault that there was ruts or bogs its always water coming down that shags them,

So tyre size is never going to change them, in my circle of farm boys we all have 33 on our trucks makes it alot easier to get places than what 31 did so your having a laugh newbie

Can you start a new member thread to intro your self with some pxt of your truck

[Sadam_Husain]

I think you need a glass of warm milk and a cuddle mate

[crazyclark31]

there is also the bit wer if tyre size is restricted then once a track reaches the point that it is impassable people will move onto some other track untill it to becomes impassable and so on. in the mean while the tracks no longer being used are getting scoured out due to THE RAIN. so now we have a growing amount of scoured out tracks that keeps growing.
without tyre restiction we can keep going back to the same tracks and challange ourselves to a part we didn't get past last time. Thus keeping the spread of the damage down.

[007]

Maybe they need to make some easier tracks for the family shiny mall crawlers running 30 inch tires.

[ladeda]

and me.. ^^^
I cant afford or fit the big ones.
but I would if I could...

can be fustrating looking at a mean trak and thinking dam, wish it wasent so rutted so I could actually attempt it. dam WATTER and its erroding like qualities.

[Bush Chef]

Bigger = more traction = less spinning = less damage

[Smurf]

How much more often does my diff head knock the top off the bank with my 31s compared to my 33s
How much more traction do I have on my 35s due to them having a bigger footprint than my 33s?
Its not big tyres that cause damage, It is all tyres that cause damage, especially once they are STUCK.
If I am less likely to get stuck, GENERALLY I am less likely to cause damage.
The further away from Terra Firma my diffs are, the less damage my diffs can do
What does factor in is, once I loose traction and I am stuck, how long do I sit there all wheels spinning, digging holes?
If I am sensible, not long, as I don't want to damage my truck or get even more stuck, or damage the track I am driving along with my mates who also want to drive through the section I am stuck in (enter tow rope or winch)
If I'm a dick, I'll just keep trying

[rangimotors]

there are plenty of gravel roads looked after by the council that you can go and drive on.. oh but hang on you want to run 33's not road tyres. That must be beacause you want ruts that you still have to try to get through but not big enough that you can't even have a go.

If you treat 4wheeling as a sport like a lot of us where you enjoy challenging your truck as well as your driving skills and understand there is a difference between a "hard yakka" track that is always borderline unpassable and a track that should be maintained for family style trips in rav 4's then you would not be having this arguement.

Most of us running big tyres drive tracks that have never been family style tracks and if you turn up one day a d find the ruts are twice as deep as last time (usually from the water running down them, not from a guy running 40's) then you enjoy the challenge and repair the track enough to get yourslef through.

Sounds like you would all like us to repair the tracks to a level that they might as well be sealed. Perhaps you should sell up and buy a sports car?

I bet you are the sort of guy to bag everyone on "big" tyres and then drive around the track and rip up the stop bank becasue you are always so right.

If you have spend much time 4 wheeling in the south island im sure you know that the "hard yakka" tracks have not changed much in the last 5-10 years and are well looked after by the guys with big tyres that are driving them. All the damage is done by the guy who buys a truck with 31's or borrows his mums rig and heads out to destroy a bit of grass or stop bank at the side of the waimak.

Whats it like living way up there?

[lincooln]

I can safely say that my Zuk on 29.5" tyres rips absolute shit up as I have to try that much harder to get anywhere as my diff is always scraping etc. Hell if I could get 31"s or bigger I would. I wouldn't have to drive so hard on my truck and on the tracks. It is a win win. Tracks win and truck wins.

Water does so much more damage than big tyres ever do. Seen motorcycle/bicycle/horse tracks turn into miniature grand canyons. And they sure as hell weren't running 37" tyres. and you know why? Water. and not all that much of it either.

Water and exposed soil will never be best friends. Likewise with you and any member on here at the moment.

[xj]

Personally I blame sheep. Trying to get a hill and I often get nailed with either front or rear tyres getting hung up on sheep ruts. If the sheep werent so fecking inconsiderate, Id be able to wander up with no problems at all.

ive got access to farmland, and the owner couldnt give a rats furry arse what we do in his native or manuka, and even leaves us his digger to fuk about with if needed.

Theres another bit of land Ive been on in the Waikato where the owner encourages ripping the shit outa two gullies in particular as it assists in draining his prime pastures above the gullies.

Horses for courses. If you have a mutual agreement in any situation and both parties are aware of the activities/expectations of the other, theres no issue....

Another land owner who hosted us once was gobsmacked. He regularly hosted another club that, in his own words, drove in convoy to a ridge, drank tea and ate cucumber sandwiches, and tootled off again. After having us there and showing him the dark side he now hosts 4x4ers constantly, has built a lagoon and camping facilities with pumped water, generator, flushing loos etc etc. Hes got rules about where folk need to stay away from, and where folk can play. he loves nothing more than seeing the mud flying.

Private land is what it is, and the owner have the right to kick anyone out they like, and the 4x4ers need to look after it, if they dont, the result will speak for itself.

[xj]

Murray, youve given one example to support your position. Ive just give three above that support mine (I cant speak for others) and I just cant see how this is all getting blown out of proportion.

Here's the thing, I grew up on farms that the only 100% reliable access was via horse, but all the farms had 4x4s. As a result we had some pretty decent 4x4 country. Now the only recreation aside from Pig Hunting and Saturday Rugby was..... 4x4. We all saw what happened to the land when club days happened, and it'd be a pretty naieve farmer to moan then, and Im talking 34 years ago, let alone now. While we all saw (and played in the aftermath as kids) we also saw how rapidly the land regenerated itself with no sign of a rally being had as little as a month later.

[Bush Chef]

Another land owner who hosted us once was gobsmacked. He regularly hosted another club that, in his own words, drove in convoy to a ridge, drank tea and ate cucumber sandwiches, and tootled off again. After having us there and showing him the dark side he now hosts 4x4ers constantly, has built a lagoon and camping facilities with pumped water, generator, flushing loos etc etc. Hes got rules about where folk need to stay away from, and where folk can play. he loves nothing more than seeing the mud flying.

That place sounds realy cool i wana go

[Dr_PC]

Unimogs by your comments should be on 35's or 37's cause they are big. cant say that I have ever or are ever likley to see that. Department of Defence are not actually interested in rut depth. You have also been asked on more than one occassion to post an introduction of yourelf, which still appears to not have happened.

Reading one of your recent posts I get the impression that you want to stop everyone EXCEPT commercial operations for partaking in 4 wheeling of OUR LAND.

OUR LAND, I dont come and tell you how to drive across your lawn or what colour to paint your house, so please refrain from telling me what color to paint my house without knowing me.

I do believe that I have never met you in person or spoken to you in passing BUT you are starting to piss me off.

Everytime you ask a question you recieve an answer as in water flow on flat land, you then attempt to make an answer in a different direction to your previous question.

Not only are you attempting and startng to piss the forum members off here about ruts and tyre sizes you now appear to be trying to play the commercial versus recreational access card.

I repeat you are starting to piss me off. Again please create an introduction post for yourself an maybe your commercial operation and tell us all what barrow you are really trying to push and how big its wheels are. Yes I will post my name

Dan Barnett

[4by4]

http://www.teararoa.org.nz/index.cfm/Pa ... /ViewPage/

[xj]

Now now, lets not get off tangent.... well ok... lets.

Tyre size aside for just a tick. Talking about the damage this and damage that how many of us here would consider that more damage and deaths occur due to modified vehicals being irresponsibly driven than what there is by drivers who have had a little drink or two.... Im picking not a lot.

To refer to the title of this thread... Managing tracks, not tyre size... how about managing the way the tyre size, and the trucks are used as a basis for conversation? Would that be fair? So to take it a step further, and to tie in the above paragraph what would the perceptions be of folk that 4x4'd and drank whilst 4x4ing. Im not talking after a run, or being hung over from the night before, but actually during the drive....

Probably not a good look hey?

where am i going with this?

Hands up anyone who knows where theres a bottle of Whiskey up Mt Benmore..

Hands up anyone who knows of anyone that gets to a certain spring on Mt Benmore in their 4x4 and likes to have a little swig from the Whiskey thats just laying about.... (if the the circulated tale is to be believed)

REAALLLYYYYYYYYY not a good look I wouldnt have thought. Would look farkn awesome though climbing into a rig with 35+ tyres on after imbibing, totally staunch... 'cause thats TRADITION

Who's confused???

[xj]

Counting to 10... and breatheeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Bulletproof]

It might be time for a tyre lever to solve the problem !

Cheers Richard

[Bulletproof]

I know the Mt Benmore and Totora peaks station area well and no one should be drinking with near vertical drop offs 100s of metres down with sharp hairpins for a round trip.

Cheers Richard

PS I belonged to the "Canterbury Land Rover Owners Club" when you wanted to force this 33 inch tyre rule on them. They have no Rules about tyre size. Lots run big tires, they do no competition and have more access to tracks than any club in NZ because of responsible driving.

[crazyclark31]

Right now that we have had a good old laugh at some muppet lets get back to the topic at hand
down it it is quite comon for us to put chains on at the request of landowners to minimize the damage to farm tracks.Esp in winter This is due to keeping the wheelspin to a minimum therefore minmizing the damage.
It is also comon for the trip leader to say to people with smaller tyres/low clearance to jump into someone elses vehcile and leave theirs at the gate. this also is to keep the skidding down.

This is all down to managing tracks without putting tyre size restrictions. if fact some endorse having bigger tyres.

[slide]

Very interesting reading of peoples opinions here. I think a few people have it spot on. Others seem more interested in a heated discussions... (both sides guilty here).

I'll admit right now to being one of these tyre spinning 31" wagons, BUT, not on main tracks, only side tracks, play zones where I hope all agree this is acceptable behaviour. And anyone out there against a play in a suitable zone??

I can see how people see bigger tyres causing it harder for smaller guys to get through (simple math, a vehicle with 10" clearance won't make it through if it needs 11" ).
I can also see how people see smaller tyres can be responsible for chewing ruts deeper, and a larger tyre will reach traction at the bottom and not spin.

Got me thinking here tho, Do any clubs have a MINIMUM tyre size?
(or minimum for particular trips/tracks?),
Nath

[DaveM]

My only advice after communicating with others today is, for your own safety ." Tone down"in your comments. Fancy publicly attacking a dead person who was liked by hundreds and many on the forum.

Cheers Richard

PS now lets get back on topic about managing tracks

Don't agree with Linda being attacked, but why do people have to bring out the tony tuff #### card and start making threats? If these are coming from people who knew Linda, do you really think she was the type of person who would find this acceptable behaviour from her friends?

[Bulletproof]

Don't agree with Linda being attacked, but why do people have to bring out the tony tuff #### card and start making threats? If these are coming from people who knew Linda, do you really think she was the type of person who would find this acceptable behaviour from her friends?

This was never mean't as a threat Dave.

It was to say how peoples strong feelings are getting really getting worked up with the comments.

Cheers Richard.

Seeing that Linda Simpsons name has been mentioned. I have done lots of trips with her.

Regarding tracks, Linda ran Radial tyres and it was never" Rip shit or bust" and after a couple of attempts she was the first on the end of a spade. She didn't just sit there doing rooster tails. For harder tracks she carried the Club turfer and dragged herself through.

When she died by falling over the side she was out of the truck guiding another truck around a sharp corner

[coxsy]

It may seem that way to you, but they are defending their ideals, and people they know, so thing tend to get strung out, if you don't like it don't read, maybe if we all left this thread the better

[hosehustler]

Ho Humm
we've all heard the kiwi habitat stories etc, and frankly take your beef some place else, most here on ORE like to know what's going on around NZ but aren't interested in shit, finger pointing and blame. That's why we're all saying fark all.
All spinning tyres do damage whether they're being driven by a V8 or a supercharged 3L, Jeep wrangler or really anything and the worst can be the little tyres with open diffs.
Here's a couple of ORE trips where we do nothing.


Dad's closest in the shot....64yrs old Mike (ORE owner) as well, myself, Bill, Adam and others.....doing some track building I think


Here's another up Mt Greenland,we've just about finished about an hour on shovels ....... several clubs had been up there before us and turned back, thanks to this work access is happening again....ooooh but i'd avoid it on 33's



We all respect Richard (most of the time) at least he contributes and although we don't always agree with him, he's still well respected and contibutes well.
Mr Waters however is only pissing (most) off for his own entertainment.....

[furnace]

Went up mt Greenland recently on 33's,not to much of a hassle,better than the last time i was up there..lol..Guessing after the hard shovel work though.I was in my little wrangler

[hosehustler]

Went up mt Greenland recently on 33's,not to much of a hassle,better than the last time i was up there..lol..

good to hear

[klompy]

I now track repair is important but honestly you move as much dirt in half an hour with a shovel as you would in a hundred years with a tyre.So once you accept we have tracks and in time mantain them whats the problem.

[Bulletproof]

Trucks without front and rear diff locks do more damage than ones on big tyres by doing rooster tails.

Cheers Richard