Whos up for a game of guess the problem?

[Filthy4x4]

Right, been given a car from my mum which decided it was better off being a non runner

Its a 1990 mitsi galant

Engine is a 4g37, 1.8 non turbo, 195kms on the clock.

From what I was told it was driving then it just stopped

Now all it does is turn over then it fires once as in it sounds like it ignites 1 of each of the 4 cylinders then just keeps turning over.

Ive checked the compression, thanks to Sibainmud lending me the magic tool

It came back with :

1 - 135psi
2 - 140psi
3 - 125psi
4 - 115psi

Now those figures dont seem right too me I thought petrols are usually round 80-90psi?

I was reading something about these motors stretching cambelts and putting the timing so far out that they barely move under load, so I checked the cambelt to find that it has nicks and cuts in it and its about to let go (I will fix this, if the motor is worth fixing).

So to try counteract this problem I then advanced the timing all the way, then retarded the timing all the way to see if the timing was stopping it from running due to a dodgy cambelt.

It still did the exact same thing both ways it would just fire once then die again, so either the timing is WAY out and adjusting the dizzy does nothing or theres another problem which I cant figure out.

Any ideas?

Cheers

Caleb

[SP450andLE]

The compression on my Mini is ~125 psi, but I'm not sure if it would be the same for a modern car? Seems odd that it's ranging from 115 to 140 though

[kbushnz]

What sort of 4G37's is it... A quick google shows it could be a carby or an EFI...
Each could have there own issues...
First is to see if you are getting a good spark at each plug...
If its good then it could be timing or fuel....

If its EFI the ECU may have died....(as you said it just stopped while driving)

The list goes on....Good luck....

[pruggerdore]

compression test straight off, good man. compressions that far apart not a good sign but may come right once hot. did you do oil down plug hole to see if it rings or valves? either way thats not why it just stopped. need too narrow it down some what. ignition or fuel to start with. plugs out check for spark constantly. then fuel. injectors ticking? fuel presure test. sudden stopping is probably electrical. but finding it well....
personaly its not worth anything and not worth spending money on. tow it in too a scrap yard instant money? like 2-3 hundred. cant loose lol

[mazdamike]

dose it have a afm the early galants shit these lots. when doing the cambelt also check the bellance shaft

[Filthy4x4]

What sort of 4G37's is it... A quick google shows it could be a carby or an EFI...
Each could have there own issues...
First is to see if you are getting a good spark at each plug...
If its good then it could be timing or fuel....

If its EFI the ECU may have died....(as you said it just stopped while driving)

The list goes on....Good luck....

Sorry should have said, its a carby.

I pulled and cleaned all the plugs, they were all fouled up.

Its been checked for spark, Its definitely getting fuel, im unsure about timing unless its slipped a couple of teeth and bent a valve or two.

Cheers going to need it on this one, the usual checks arent bringing up anything to make it any easier

[Drurban]

Guess what the problem is that it is not a 4WD that is the problem

Nah just kidding hope you get it sorted mate.

[Filthy4x4]

compression test straight off, good man. compressions that far apart not a good sign but may come right once hot. did you do oil down plug hole to see if it rings or valves? either way thats not why it just stopped. need too narrow it down some what. ignition or fuel to start with. plugs out check for spark constantly. then fuel. injectors ticking? fuel presure test. sudden stopping is probably electrical. but finding it well....
personaly its not worth anything and not worth spending money on. tow it in too a scrap yard instant money? like 2-3 hundred. cant loose lol

Haha yeah scrap heap is too easy though, It doesn't owe me any skin yet so its too soon to sell it

Its just not normal symptoms to me anyway, im sure it will be something simple just to piss me off

[Rotazuk]

Stupid question . does it run if you turn the key to start and hold it there ?

[Filthy4x4]

Stupid question . does it run if you turn the key to start and hold it there ?

Nah, I tried that

I cant find my can of Start ya Bastard either...

[DieselBoy]

You have spark and compression, so time to go looking at the fuel side of things in that case.

Is there fuel in the float bowl of the carb??? Undo the drain plug to confirm.

Also leave plug out and crank the engine and check for a steady stream of fuel out the drain hole.

If you get nothing from either, then suspect fuel pump or filter or both.

[Heath]

As the others have said, simple engine. Spark, fuel and compression.

You have compression (although a little varied) so thats okay.

You said you have spark, is it a good strong spark or weak? Perhaps new plugs and regap them. Check dizzy for carbon trails and check HT leads for excessive resistance. Has the coil died? How is the earth from batt to chassis and engine to chassis (poor earth could result in poor spark)

Last is fuel. Is there fuel? is the fuel pump working? Is the filter blocked (cheap as, replace inline filter)? Are the jets blocked? Is the float buggered and not opening/lifting the fuel needle? Is the fuel old and water contaminated (take fuel pump supply line and put it in a coke bottle with fresh fuel - this will prove pump working too.)

Is there a fuel cut off solenoid (in case of roll over) that has failed? Check fuel line for something with wires into it and remove from line to test.

Good luck.

[Dirtydog]

see, ya gotta think about the whole thing here,

its the fact its a mitsi.........

otherwise i cant help lol

[lincooln]

also if you haven't, check the rotor and dizzy cap for excessive wear. test the coil as it sounds a lot like what happened to my brothers mini, and I guess it is electronic ignition? otherwise check the points and condensor haven't packed a sad too.

Also was it in daily use before hand? if not is the fuel new enough?

[Filthy4x4]

You have spark and compression, so time to go looking at the fuel side of things in that case.

Is there fuel in the float bowl of the carb??? Undo the drain plug to confirm.

Also leave plug out and crank the engine and check for a steady stream of fuel out the drain hole.

If you get nothing from either, then suspect fuel pump or filter or both.

Im 99% sure theres no issues with fuel, in fact I personally think its over fuelling since its not getting burnt by running, but its better to be 100% sure so will try this tomorrow, cheers

[Filthy4x4]

As the others have said, simple engine. Spark, fuel and compression.

You have compression (although a little varied) so thats okay.

You said you have spark, is it a good strong spark or weak? Perhaps new plugs and regap them. Check dizzy for carbon trails and check HT leads for excessive resistance. Has the coil died? How is the earth from batt to chassis and engine to chassis (poor earth could result in poor spark)

Last is fuel. Is there fuel? is the fuel pump working? Is the filter blocked (cheap as, replace inline filter)? Are the jets blocked? Is the float buggered and not opening/lifting the fuel needle? Is the fuel old and water contaminated (take fuel pump supply line and put it in a coke bottle with fresh fuel - this will prove pump working too.)

Is there a fuel cut off solenoid (in case of roll over) that has failed? Check fuel line for something with wires into it and remove from line to test.

Good luck.

I will double check over these things tomorrow, I know a new coil was put on it to check (before I got hold of it), might pay to check the plugs again, I may also grab the leads of my zuk and test those as I know they are good.

Not sure about a fuel cut off solenoid but will have a look around.

Cheers

[Filthy4x4]

also if you haven't, check the rotor and dizzy cap for excessive wear. test the coil as it sounds a lot like what happened to my brothers mini, and I guess it is electronic ignition? otherwise check the points and condensor haven't packed a sad too.

Also was it in daily use before hand? if not is the fuel new enough?

Have checked the coil, the points seem to be ok.

Yup used to be a daily driver til it died one day about a month or so ago.

[yael]

Was it fill up with fuel just before it died??? and just before it died did it start running rough and smoking??

If u have compression spark and fuel it should go but if it's now trying to run on diesel it won't run very well or at all

And if or when u get it running to help those compressions get the engine nice and warm take the air cleaner off, bring the revs up to about 2000rpm then start tipping about 500ml of 2stroke oil down the carb reasonably slowly, the engine will bog down so u gotta keep the revs up and not let it stall once u have got all the oil down it give it a good rev up to clear any remaining in the manifold out then jump in it and drive it like you stole it for 5-10min and it will start puring just like new then do another compression check and see what they have come up to

Cheers Yael

[mazdamike]

dose it turn really free or dose it lock up every cupple of cranks????
also take off all cam covers and wind round to tdc and see if all markings still line up

[ladeda]

quick question did it cut out while driving or would it just not start after being turned off?

[ladeda]

sorry also was the timing belt still tight when you checked or was it loose?

You can quikly check cam timing buy winding over to TDC firing on 1 and there should be a mark on the cam pully tha lines up with a marker on the head

[slide]

I pulled and cleaned all the plugs, they were all fouled up.

PUT IN NEW SPARK PLUGS!!!!

it'll probably fix your problem. No point spending many hours fixing and checking things with old plugs....
It'll get you every time. "Cleaning" plugs WILL NOT WORK.
After you've put in new plugs, and wound it over (it'll probably fire up, but just in case...), remove and check a plug.
If wet= no fuel issue, check over ignition system.
If dry= no spark issue, check over fuel system.
If this don't work, you'd better get some experienced help
Cheers,
Nath

[Filthy4x4]

I pulled and cleaned all the plugs, they were all fouled up.

PUT IN NEW SPARK PLUGS!!!!

it'll probably fix your problem. No point spending many hours fixing and checking things with old plugs....
It'll get you every time. "Cleaning" plugs WILL NOT WORK.
After you've put in new plugs, and wound it over (it'll probably fire up, but just in case...), remove and check a plug.
If wet= no fuel issue, check over ignition system.
If dry= no spark issue, check over fuel system.
If this don't work, you'd better get some experienced help
Cheers,
Nath

Right so I put in some new plugs. Cranked it over, same thing.

Pulled #3 plug, looked the same as when it came out the packet, bone dry and shiny.

I can smell fuel from the carby after cranking it over, I noticed it also puffs smoke/fuel vapour or something out the carb.

I can see the inline filter (clear) and that churns away when its getting turned over.

Cheers

[3VILC]

Is there electrical connections on the carb? If so check they are all powered up with key on. (fuel cut solenoid will usually be on the top of the carb somewhere) does it make any difference if you wind it over with the throttle say 1/4ish open? Sounds like either something in the ignition is breaking down as soon as it gets a load on it, or its running out of fuel as soon as it fires (fuel pump poked, needle valve not opening enough, jets clogged with shi*) If its a mechanical fuel pump, one of those little low pressure electric ones for carb engines would be handy if you can beg/borrow/steal one to test
As mentioned could also be timing has gone 10miles out from where it should be (hopefully the valves havent met a hard piston surface
Compression on my hilux is 160-150-155-160 and thats meant to be a dirty old low compression petrol..unless its been shaved previously

[Heath]

You mentioned it back firing/poping back up the carb. could be the head is poked with the valves not sealing properly, but then I wouldnt think you would get compression values you got.

[lincooln]

if you can blow out the fuel lines, drain the float chamber etc. I hooked a piece of pipe up to an air bed pump and use that to clear my fuel lines in the zuk now. works a treat.

[lincooln]

if you want I can come over for a bit tomorrow and we can try some stuff on it.

[rangimotors]

if you think your timing belt may have stretched/slipped the last thing you want to do is continue to try and start it. Check your timing and confirm that its right before you go any further or you might find as your cranking it that your pushing valves into pistons or even worse it actually fires up and punches holes in all of the pistons..

After that i would be pulling off the aircleaner and spraying some ether (start ya bastard etc) down the carb, an engine should run like that alone assuming you have correct timing, comp & spark. If it will run with the ether but not without it then you probably have fuel issues, blocked jets etc..

[muddy]

If it's popping back out the carb - it sounds like a valve timing problem. You seem to be confusing the two timing systems - valve timing is cambelt driven to ensure the valves open & close at the correct position. Ignition timing controls the spark. If the cam-belt has jumped a couple of cogs, that would cause different compression readings (like you have), and still wouldn't run even with good spark and fuel... The vapour and back-firing through the carb is a sure sign it is trying to fire while the inlet valve is still partially open. Check the alignment of the valve timing marks on the camshaft and crankshaft. And don't keep trying if it's out - it may only be a couple of cogs from letting the piston hit the valves and then the motor is a throw-away...

Have you priced a replacement motor from a wrecker? May be cheaper than fixing that one if the rest of the car is good...

[Filthy4x4]

After having a play around with it today, these are my thoughts exactly.

Its a mission to get in to check the timing as the cambelt faces the strut tower with minimal room for my big hands

Will give it a crack as I have checked through every thing else.

Will update as I go

Cheers