Water/methanol injection for my 80's 1HD-T.

[petefj40]

I met DDAN last week and was impressed at the water/methanol injection kit he has setup in his Prado.

I was going to ask him a couple of questions directly but I thought it would be a good thread to start just in case there are any others interested in setting up a similar injection system on their 1HD-T.

Truly, Dan's setup is very impressive!!

Dan.
-That 22L tank in the boot of your Prado. Do you fill that up each time you fill up the diesel tank? And if so, around town, how many k's do you get out of both tanks?
-What cost is the methanol per litre?
-I'm guessing you might need a racing license to purchase it?
-The injection kit you brought ex the States. Would I be looking at a similar kit for the 1HD-T?
-And if so, what was the cost of it?
-Would you mind listing the benefits from the system? i.e how cooler does the turbo run etc?

I hope this hasn't put you on the spot mate. No rush in responding.
As you stated to me, water/methanol injection has been around for a very long time. So I'm surprised more people haven't looked deeper into the use of it.

Maybe the cons out weigh the pros?

But I'm keen to hear what other peoples experiences are with it and if there are others like me that are interested in it.

Cheers,
Pete.

[mallit]

I'll jump in here as Im a big fan of water injection.
I went that way with my prado as I thought it was easier to install without mucking around installing intercooler, cutting bonnet etc.
A lot of your questions are all dependant on how much water meths you want to throw at the motor. Eg pre turbo post turbo etc.

I went with a pretty standard devilsown injection kit for diesels and installed a 4gph nozzle on the intake post turbo. I have mine coming on at 10 psi (am running 20psi) and found running about a 20% mix of water/meths I get a little over 50 deg decrease in EGTs boosting up hills etc. A larger increase can be had if going pre turbo but theres bit of debate that going pre turbo can shorten the life of the turbo a bit.

As for how long a tank lasts it all depends on how much Ive been booting it. I would say with my 10ltr tank with slow around town , bit faster on open road driving would get about 1000kms. Would imagine towing would drink it pretty quickly.

Am just running meths or sometimes straight water but you can get methanol from model shops for around $45 for 10ltrs, they use it to run their helicopters, cars on it.

And as for cons I dont really see any if used conservatively.
Your truck will love a good steam clean from the inside out

Oh and forgot to mention.
It really wakes these old diesels up

[Tarmac]

Pros - from my understanding, dosnt cost an arm and a leg, steam clean internals, cooler/ denser air charge = power+safety,

Cons - you have to keep an eye on your water/methanol level so it dont run dry (like your fuel)

Honestly it seems to have many benefits, as I understand post turb pre intercooler sounds to have the most pluses. The tec came out on early american turb cars 60?s also early planes so hopefully bugs iron out

If you know someone who has done it to bounce ideas off you cant go wrong

I believe the pre turb shortening life of unit stems from the mist charge gouging out the housing n fkin it, kinda like how you can profile cut steel with a water jet

[suzolla]

Also need to make sure that water cannot be sprayed in while that engine is turned off, don't want to hydraulic it.
Cheers
Tim

[Tarmac]

Dont most setups run off boost switch? like a IC misting deal

[hello24]

as for the setup i have had a cooling mist setup ($350 from trademe) insalled for a couple months on a prado (love it also)and run the pump through the pressure switch at 10psi but also through a switch inside the cab so you can manualy switch the setup on and off i ensure i have it turned off before i stop the vehicle but mainly for the reason of when the truck starts in the morning you can allow it to reach operating temp before turning on the water. i have also wired a led light incab to the preasure switch so i know exacly when it comes on and water is spraying... basic setup and im sure anyone else is running something similar. as for cost i get it from a guy that sells it in auckland for race car fuel. $40 for 20l so cheaper then petrol!! and 20l of meth last a long time running it 15% with water

[tweake]

the pre turbo wear is from the blades smashing into large water droplets. if its a super fine mist its fine. its when you get the mist settling on the tubing then running into the turbo its a major problem.
the most common problem is dirty water/meth fouling the the very fine nozzle and causing it to squirt the water in a solid stream rather than misting.

you do not want to inject pre intercooler. it can pool in the IC and its a waste as the IC heat the air UP.
you want after the IC. let the IC cool the air down to then the WI cools it down past ambient air temp.

you can trigger the system multiable ways. from simple boost switch, to variable speed controller, trigger by egt temps, maf signal etc.

don't forget if you can get the gear and free sugar you can brew your own alcohol. just plain wine yeast will do up to 18% which is fine. cleaning it is an issue tho.

to stop any water injecting when its not meant to use a solenoid. more reliable than a check valve.

you can use a float switch in the tank to keep an eye on water level.

the only real problem i have with WI is the amount of water/meth you go through. small diesels that are on boost a lot really chew through it quickly.

[Tarmac]

Thanks 'tweake', a gd read from someone who has done it.

[petefj40]

Cool!
I'm enjoying the feedback. Thanks heaps.
Right now I'm getting excited about getting a good reliable system installed in the 80. Was talking to Rick this avo. He's looking at getting it installed into his 80 as well. Only, he wants to buy a high end pump that pressurizes the system full time helping you get a finer mist reducing the chance of heavy droplets. Post turbo seems the safest but pre turbo gets the temp down even more so (so I'm told) so if you can be assured of a fine mist 100% of the time why not choose that option.

[petefj40]

Thanks 'tweake', a gd read from someone who has done it.

X2

[Tarmac]

"Atomised droplets" is the sales pitch. yes the smallest droplets are the best, kinda like fuel injection.... with great products comes great cost... But really Ricks right if you can get the fine water particals then your away laughing.

[tweake]

Only, he wants to buy a high end pump that pressurizes the system full time helping you get a finer mist reducing the chance of heavy droplets. Post turbo seems the safest but pre turbo gets the temp down even more so (so I'm told) so if you can be assured of a fine mist 100% of the time why not choose that option.

all the pumps from the makers pressurize at a high pressure. its the low end boost switch operated system that runs the pump 100% that gives constant pressure.
the odd one is i think aquamist that does a system like a petrol fuel rail. it runs constant pressure and controls an injector to provided variable injection.

with good nozzles you only need 40psi minimum for good mist.
after turbo injection it really doesn't matter to much unless the injection point is close to inlet manifold. this is because water doesn't evaporate much in the intake pipes. it flows down the pipes and out any poor joins as i found the hard way.

pre turbo pressure and misting is critical. its very good because it takes the heat out as its generated and tends to alter the compressor map. great if your turbo is on the small side.
however there is the risk. and dirt partly blocking the nozzle and you will chew the compressor blades. so clean water (ie not hard water) and regular cleaning of the nozzles is recommended.

[strx7]

I have been running W/I on my HDJ81 for the past 9 months.
I have a 5 litre petrol container mounted in the engine bay by the wiper motor and run 30-40% meths and the rest water.
I'm using a 150psi cooling mist pump (old style pump) and currently have twin 180cc/min nozzles rigged up with a 6psi pressure switch and a toggle switch on the dash, So it will only spray when there is more than 6psi boost AND the toggle switch is turned on.
Both nozzles have solenoids controlling them (this is what the pressure switch and toggle switch are controlling)
I have just today purchased some bigger nozzles to make use of the extra air my turbo (VF36 STI) turbo can flow that my injector pump can keep up with.
with 360cc/min going in I would say i'm gaining about 40-50Nm and 10-15hp.
with the bigger nozzles i have just ordered I should be gaining around 100Nm and 40Hp.
with the boost switch and toggle switch, i only flick it on when i come to a hill or when i need to accelerate up to main road speed quickly from a stand still, especially if towing. towing a boat from tauranga to coromandel and back, and only using it on the hills. I did pretty much 500km of towing, used 2-2.5 litres of meths/water for 60-65 litres of deisel.