Thompsons track area

[TJ]

Coily, before you ask others about their disclosure of information, how about in the interest of transparency you start with a full disclosure of who you are, who are you affiliated with, and who pays you, if any, for your activities.

[COILY]

It doesn't matter who or what i do or which government department pays my rent, buys my alcohol, smokes, sky tv and pays for me to sit home on my ass.
What i was asking is if Peter has been corrupted and is working for his bank account or the cause?
If you were working for the cause why would you even forward the original letter?
Wouldn't you tell the council to mind their own business? Or ask when are they putting a carpark and wash bay at the start of the clay track so we dont have to drive on the metal road or wash in the creek?
And as for the police thing. Nobodies business and if police are out there checking regos well........thats a whole book by itself.

[TJ]

Coily, looks like you are very new at this trolling on forums. Your logic and arguments are worse than most I have seen from other trolls. Stop wasting time and do something constructive for the sport that you apparently love and care for so much.

[lincooln]

its not the councils business to provide us clean up areas, play areas etc.

Peter has done so much good for track access. We have to treat areas with respect as in this age we will be locking ourselves out. Its all about respect.

Yes its annoying with all this PC shit, but a few 4wders will not change anything and instead we will just be shitting in our own nest.

[COILY]

Ive been around enough forums to know whats what.

Here is the definition of what a forum is:
A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Now im exchanging mine and you obviously dont like it TJ. Get over it.

From what i have seen the current system isn't working therefore 4wders are NOT benefitting. Was the wrong direction taken in fighting the powers? I think so. Had they been stood up to and told that we will not accept what they propose from the beginning then more tracks maybe open.

Instead of planting a few trees in exchange for a meeting with cucumber sandwiches and sausage rolls.

The current system HAS failed. Its time to fight!

[PeterVahry]

Coily, you are part of our problem. The 'I don't give a shit about rules' attitude no longer works and maybe when you get a little older you might figure that out.

I don't get and haven't got paid anything for what I've voluntarily (that's what a volunteer is, someone who does something without pay) put into four wheeling access over the past 25 years, but have paid annually for membership of 4x4 clubs, the NZFWDA and UFWDA. Your insinuation that I have been profiting is offensive.

If you want help with access closures then ask politely, don't waste our time otherwise.

[TJ]

You really believe what you are saying is the best way to address the issues? Confrontational stance does not work with people who have regulatory authority over access to anything. Respect and responsible behaviour is the key.

As for me getting over it, well looks like you the one who ran out of rational debate and exchange of view points. You want a respectful response, ask a respectful question.

[ladeda]

I agree with coily in regard to us as a nation need to stand up for the use of what is ours to begin with.

All to often we get told by some twat in a suit "no you cant do that cos I say so" and every time we just bow and say ok your the man in the suit that earns more than me you must be right.(even tho its my taxes that pay your extrodinary wage)..... WTF??

If tracks are to be closed it should be decided by the comunity that uses them not by a select few people that dont want the comunity to use them even tho it doesent afect them personaly cos they have no intrest in ours.

Im not saying that ppl like peter arnt wonderfull ppl for doing what they have with the little suport they have from the rest of us, I do say good on em for giving it a go.
Perhaps that is the propblem is that we dont stand united and leave it up to those that actually give enough of a dam to try do something about it. This is where I differ from you coily, I would much rather pay for folks like peter to try his best to do what he can then pay for some twat to tell me what I cant do.
I think if Peter fails then we only have ourself to blame for not suporting him earlier and giving him more resorces wether it be financial, vocal or to stand behind him in the meetings he has with said twats and let em have what they need, weather that is respect or a slap in the face
my rant over.

cant wait for our club run to thomo's next month

[Hilux Dan]

Lets not forget that this is all about passing on a concern to the 4wd community so that we are aware. Being informed is better than not surely. People can take it how they want, its just information, but Peter doesnt deserve any of this criticism that I have been reading.

In my opinion if we dont take these concerns into consideration when out there having fun, then we are putting that very fun at jeopardy. Is it really such a big deal that we dont speed down a particular road or wash our trucks in a stream, I think not. I would hate to see us lose this track.

My 2cents.......cher

[crazyclark31]

have to agree on this topic. Down here we have lots of private land at our disposal to use. It takes alot of work to get bu the best way to get and keep acsess is to show a decent amount respect to the people concerned.
This and heeding any requests from the land owner ie keeping speed down, sticking to tracks,keeping gates shut.

I think if people followed that kinda attitude towards council requests and the people that live by roads/tracks concerned then maybe just maybe they would quite so quick to close them off to public use.
I do agree that there are a bunch of twats that have no idea that are closing them off but also belive(nievely proberly)they are the kinda people that can be swayed with the right kind of approach.
Taking a confrintational approach can only do harm and wipe out any of the hard work done by others. These are the people that really piss me off!!!

[PeterVahry]

All to often we get told by some twat in a suit "no you cant do that cos I say so" and every time we just bow and say ok your the man in the suit that earns more than me you must be right.(even tho its my taxes that pay your extrodinary wage)..... WTF??

Ladeda, thanks for your thoughts but I have to question the above comment. That situation really never happens. What does happen is another priority over-rides our recreation in the view of the land managers... be it government or council.
Why? Because some other group has been more persuasive. There still have to be reasons for decisions and if there are stronger arguments from one side, then they win. We need to put together better and more unified arguments for our public land access and then we might stand a better chance. It takes time, lots of time, to research history, geology, use patterns and other factors and then present that information in person.... with the strong backing of our recreation.

With the rare exception, the government and council people are good to work with and will recognise a valid case but it can sometimes take years to change things. Some even own 4WD's and enjoy the occasional challenge.

Get to know government and council people and they'll help where they can... just like the reason for the start of this thread!

[COILY]

Forgetting everything else as we seem to have different opinions and i dont wash my truck in that stream and am actually a very responsible 4wder just a pissed off one...... One issue still stands how do i drive my bush truck from the carpark to the clay without being fined?

[ladeda]

All to often we get told by some twat in a suit "no you cant do that cos I say so" and every time we just bow and say ok your the man in the suit that earns more than me you must be right.(even tho its my taxes that pay your extrodinary wage)..... WTF??

Ladeda, thanks for your thoughts but I have to question the above comment. That situation really never happens. What does happen is another priority over-rides our recreation in the view of the land managers... be it government or council.
Why? Because some other group has been more persuasive. There still have to be reasons for decisions and if there are stronger arguments from one side, then they win. We need to put together better and more unified arguments for our public land access and then we might stand a better chance. It takes time, lots of time, to research history, geology, use patterns and other factors and then present that information in person.... with the strong backing of our recreation.

With the rare exception, the government and council people are good to work with and will recognise a valid case but it can sometimes take years to change things. Some even own 4WD's and enjoy the occasional challenge.

Get to know government and council people and they'll help where they can... just like the reason for the start of this thread!

Thanks for the feedback Pete.
Considering your coments. It made me think, perhaps its the younger generation in me and a bit of my own nievity towards how things are done that has made me think this way.
I still do sympathise with alot of folks, like our friend coily, in the fustration of how the masses have little say about how things are done and the extreem amount of PCniss we have to put up with, but I guess this is just the way it is now days, I supose I can see the argument of if you dont get up to speed with it youll get left behind thus resulting in the loss of access.

[PeterVahry]

Ladeda, 'the masses' have every ability to change things, they just need to start. The internet has changed everything and it's now much easier to reach like minded people.
The NZFWDA has 2000 members, imagine if it had 30,000 like Forest and Bird. Round up four wheelers and show evidence of numbers of voters... politicians will soon start taking notice.

Ah, I hear, why get involved with a group like the NZFWDA and the 'politics'? Be realistic, there are more politics on this medium than at any NZFWDA meeting. The cost... $30 a year! I just put a week's worth of fuel in my 4x4 today and it cost 3x that annual fee.

While our recreation is fragmented it is easy to close off tracks on public land.

Now I'm getting off my soapbox.

[Ralfie]

Forgetting everything else as we seem to have different opinions and i dont wash my truck in that stream and am actually a very responsible 4wder just a pissed off one...... One issue still stands how do i drive my bush truck from the carpark to the clay without being fined?

You don't.
Considering that Thompsons is a legal road (in unformed state) vehicle should be registered and warranted.

Now let me know next time you plan to go there as I will be first in line to take the police up to ticket you as I am one of many that sure as hell don't like your attitude.

[COILY]

Come on Ralfie what planet are you on. But happy to let you know so you can waste police resources and spoil everybodies fun! It people like you why we are having these issues. Isnt that the reason we have these tracks to take the wonders we have created and enjoy them OFFROAD. Yes offroad where regos, wof, certs, etc are not required. I have a few trucks all very nice even if i do say so myself. My road ones have regos and wofs and certs. Now my bush truck which i have for tracks like Thompsons etc is NOT road legal and i wouldnt want it to be. What is wrong with driving it the km or two up a gravel road to access the track? Just like what is wrong with washing the mud off in the river?

[Ralfie]

OFFROAD. Yes offroad where regos, wof, certs, etc are not required. I have a few trucks all very nice even if i do say so myself. My road ones have regos and wofs and certs. Now my bush truck which i have for tracks like Thompsons etc is NOT road legal and i wouldnt want it to be. What is wrong with driving it the km or two up a gravel road to access the track? Just like what is wrong with washing the mud off in the river?

Having a so called bush truck for off road is fine, but just don't expect to be able to use it on public land and unformed roads. They are legal roads and therefore the requirement is to have rego and wof. Its the same as driving on a beach these days.

I have no hesitation in calling the police where idiots behaving badly in unreg'ed vehicles are concerned. Have done it before and will do it again.

As for washing vehicles in rivers. The stream near Thompsons probably provides water to the surrounding properties. You stir up the sendiment and it affects their water supply, blocks their filters and damages their pumps, but hey, go on, keep doing it and see how long before access is denied permanently.

Washing vehicles in rivers and water ways is also how Didymo and other unwanted weeds are spread jeopardising our rivers and fisheries. Do I really need to remind you of your responsibilities to look after our outdoors which we all enjoy so much?

Its your blatant anti authority raised finger to one and all attitude that causes problems for us all, especially for those who try and promote fairness and responsibility into our past time.

[mikee]

While not condoning washing vehicles in rivers there sure is a lot of brown rivers in NZ every time it rains.

[COILY]

Have you seen what removing pine trees from hill sides does? Road construction, subdervisions, hill country farming when it rains?

[coxsy]

the pine forest cutting up there will put more sidiment down the hills than us well nearly us still have no engine

[klompy]

Driving toward katikati from tauranga a few years ago I counted 13 slips after a good winters storm clearly visible from the highway,I could only guess at how many thousands of tons of material came down.So how much damage does a 4 meter wide track maybe 20 ks long do to the entire kaimai region.

[crazyclark31]

bit off topic aye guys.
Fact of the mater is if we haed a couple of simple requests then we are more likely to be able to continue to enjoy these awsome tracks.
Oh but on our 33in shod safaris so we don't do any damage
sorry couldn't resist

[COILY]

You have a boy racer attitude. Haha. All you need for a successful safari business is 838mm tyres. Lucky the Army listened to him and stopped buying unimogs! Talking about the Army.......how much damage do they do on the desert road?

[zephyrheaven]

I might be talking out of turn here, but Im gonna roll whatever I want. Mother Nature biffs up a few surprises here in Cantee

[Tarmac]

I hae been wonderin if he cld only ban 18inch rims an BOVs the bogans wld be sorted too, I am also livin in Chch - east side an laugh at the clowns drivin lowered hondas. Lumping massive slips into this argument of "track" damage isnt going to solve the issue

[klompy]

Not going to solve it no but it sure puts it into perspective.Natural erosion is hugely greater than track damage in area of the world so accept it and repair it as you go.Threats of locking an unformed legal road are a waste of time,locking up areas dont stop people going in and driving them.People need places to go and enjoy there sport,Councils are aware of this but cant be bothered dealing with fractured groups.We need to organise ourselves better and sort out a way to cooperate with these councils/land owners and find common ground and rules.

[crazyclark31]

Not going to solve it no but it sure puts it into perspective.Natural erosion is hugely greater than track damage in area of the world so accept it and repair it as you go.Threats of locking an unformed legal road are a waste of time,locking up areas dont stop people going in and driving them.People need places to go and enjoy there sport,Councils are aware of this but cant be bothered dealing with fractured groups.We need to organise ourselves better and sort out a way to cooperate with these councils/land owners and find common ground and rules.

I strongly agree

[COILY]

I agree to Klompy. But i dont think 4wders can afford to compromise any longer. We want access full stop. Not access with a certain size tyre or if vehicles have rego or if we plant trees or only use the tracks on Tuesdays etc. That's where i feel it has gone wrong. Remember this is my opinion and something i feel strongly about. It may not be for everyone. I know its not how negotiations take place but, that's my whole point. We shouldn't be there to negotiate but rather tell what we want and dont back down. If it fails and they put gates up then we as a group remove them and continue to show them that we will continue using the tracks. Just like we will still be drinking and swimming in OUR water. Well i will be anyway.

[crazyclark31]

yep my understanding is they can't close off a road unless they change/create a bylaw enabling them to do so. Then they have to go through the whole conseltation prossess. I to will continue to drive on NZs public roads And use/drink NZs water.

[xj]

yep my understanding is they can't close off a road unless they change/create a bylaw enabling them to do so. Then they have to go through the whole conseltation prossess. I to will continue to drive on NZs public roads And use/drink NZs water.

not correct, they can claim a danger to the public and close the road indefinately