Silent on ORE but still not silent.....

[Crash bandicoot]

I would have thought ******* and ******* amounts to ***** in charge.

I'm thinking If he has an issue with wide 35 inch tyres we should fit up some of those old massey furgusson spiked steel wheels and go drive on his front lawn.

[Bulletproof]

Just looking at the photo in the article . What do you see ?

All the ground slopes down to the deep rut on the left so it is water that has done the damage. If tires had done the damage both ruts would be the same depth.

Anyway John Deere's on 33s will look good when bigger tires are banned

Cheers Richard

[mikee]

I think Murray is smarter than we give him credit for.By scaremongering he will have a few land owners who will believe him and do a deal with him to have sole access to there property,and he then will charge people for a guided tour on small tyres.Its purely business for him and nothing to do with tyre size.He has to compete with other individuals and clubs so is looking to protect his patch by any means and tyre size sounds like a good argument to him.He should never be able to gain sole access to public land this way,but may be able to pull it off,this is what makes him a worry.

[falcon5nz]

mikee- That's my thought too, Why else would he be so vocal about it.

[Tarmac]

Gd post SupraLux, while I am left confused bout the portal / unimog statment there must be some common ground for discussion, maybe?

It almost sounds like the "wide tyres spread the load an give better grip v narrow ones pass through the soft stuff and find the firm ground (I know they have to be tall enough to get there )"

[Ralfie]

I have never met the guy but have know of him for a long time.
What most of you don't realise is this stance by Murray Waters is nothing new. He has been around a lot longer than some of you guys and is very experienced.
He originally promoted the max tyre size thing as long ago as 12 years ago (or longer).

The only difference now is all who have responded on here have played into his hands and given him the publicity he was seeking.

Congratulations on a job well done.

[Suza]

Gd post SupraLux, while I am left confused bout the portal / unimog statment there must be some common ground for discussion, maybe?

.

BY bring Unimaogs into it he is alos at point targeting tour operators who use Mogs and similar for high country tours and the likes, I agree that he has positioned himself very well to become the middle man and gain control of a lot of land access meaning that we would have to work through him. Which if he is targeting the tour operators instantly means cash his way and we all so end up paying.

I think what would be the best option would be if there is aroading/ drainage engineer on here some where who could write a report about drainage and water being the primary cause we could then better object

[Tarmac]

Penny drops ... what a c#nt, an off road safari is prob nowhere near as exicting in a unimog as a 4wd (with 33s), possibly he cant afford 1? I know I wld if I cld and had a reaason - was running a safari tour. esp if my competitors did..

[DaveM]

Gd post SupraLux, while I am left confused bout the portal / unimog statment there must be some common ground for discussion, maybe?

I'd say his reasoning would be, tyres will/can dig trenches/ruts, until they can dig no further (ie hung up on the diff). Portals would allow the tyres to dig much deeper until the diffs get hung up

[crazyclark31]

thought i had better change what i had written as some on here might have had to run and tell the teacher

Also going by the big tyre theroy a pajero/hilux/landcruiser on 33s has more diff clearance than my safari therefore causes more damage.

[Tarmac]

Gd post SupraLux, while I am left confused bout the portal / unimog statment there must be some common ground for discussion, maybe?

I'd say his reasoning would be, tyres will/can dig trenches/ruts, until they can dig no further (ie hung up on the diff). Portals would allow the tyres to dig much deeper until the diffs get hung up

So... who can afford portals?? are you saying all 30? at a punt active trucks with portals are doin most of the damage in NZ:lol:. I have a funny feeling this guy has economic motives for his stance, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed so it should be obvious to others. Dont portals hang the rubber below the diffs so in theory "his" 33s wld give better clearance on portals than 35s on a reg solid axle

[falcon5nz]

Dont portals hang the rubber below the diffs so in theory "his" 33s wld give better clearance on portals than 35s on a reg solid axle

Yup from memory on the Unimogs the bottom of the axle was about where the top of it would have been w/o portals so about a 4" drop

[LOLYF]

Yup from memory on the Unimogs the bottom of the axle was about where the top of it would have been w/o portals so about a 4" drop

With unimog axles the bottom of the diff head (factory shaved!) is in line with the centre of the wheel, so to get 12" of ground clearance you would only need 24" tyres

[Tarmac]

Yup from memory on the Unimogs the bottom of the axle was about where the top of it would have been w/o portals so about a 4" drop

With unimog axles the bottom of the diff head (factory shaved!) is in line with the centre of the wheel, so to get 12" of ground clearance you would only need 24" tyres

I am an av kiwi, I was sitting on the fence on this topic, but, as for the people who say acknowldging? is encouraging this dude.has to have an underlying agenda / bring this topic to the table I say - put it out there in an open forum and see how clever you are

[zephyrheaven]

Yup from memory on the Unimogs the bottom of the axle was about where the top of it would have been w/o portals so about a 4" drop

With unimog axles the bottom of the diff head (factory shaved!) is in line with the centre of the wheel, so to get 12" of ground clearance you would only need 24" tyres

I am an av kiwi, I was sitting on the fence on this topic, but, as for the people who say acknowldging? is encouraging this dude.has to have an underlying agenda / bring this topic to the table I say - put it out there in an open forum and see how clever you are

Wont win a spelling bee with that tirade

Muzzaduck has trolled for eons, Tradefart was his 1st foray telling people off for copying his copied tow hooks et al, then he was a WANKER I mean Pajero specialist telling everyone how to make thier mall crawler drive onto a gravel road.

I remember a special kind of Safari Lions event that had 33" maximum thing in the notes - the two elderly ladies checking veheheheciles at the start line said "yes he is OK on 315's" thankfully the metric / imperial confuddle still works

[Tarmac]

thankfully thats the spelling requied for a Ba, masters etc at our fine unis. As long as "you" convey the appropraite message, I siht yuo ont

[zephyrheaven]

thankfully thats the spelling requied for a Ba, masters etc at our fine unis. As long as "you" convey the appropraite message, I siht yuo ont

I remember it well, few papers left on my own BA in Anth - one day it will sit on a $20K+ Snap On tool box I paid for working on post grads Starlets

[DaveM]

Dont portals hang the rubber below the diffs so in theory "his" 33s wld give better clearance on portals than 35s on a reg solid axle

I think that was his point, more clearance from diff = more capable of digging deeper ruts, so ban portals?
If he wanted to be fair, you would limit diff clearance, as, as pointed out, a Safari on 33's would have less diff clearance than a Hilux on 33's.
I think we should charge the Moari's for the damage, as far more damage occurs from water, which they own.

[Nigel Bannan]

Hi All
Murray has done a bulk e-mail as said in a previous post. This includes many clubs around the Canterbury region. He is just testing the waters.The more you post the more he gets out of it. Let it die.
Nig

[4by4]

every 3rd post is "dont reply as this is what he wants blah blah blah"

just shut the phuck up

ole ducky fuzz is sitting there in his 31" puddle thinking "look at me after my letter" the world (L & P) soooooooooooo massive in NZ is talking about meeeee and my 33" pajero - life mission complete

[Bulletproof]

This is funny because you have now let Murry intimidate you by not saying anything while he is speaking out.

Let the best man win

Cheers Richard

[klompy]

How can murray gain anything from this when so many people think he's a loser.Am I missing something.

[DaveM]

How can murray gain anything from this when so many people think he's a loser.Am I missing something.

Many think the people who wanted to change the laws with lifted vehicles were "losers". Looks like they got what they wanted. If he convinces the right people, who knows, he might get what he wants.

[klompy]

Cant see many similarities betwwen those 2 topics.

[DaveM]

Cant see many similarities betwwen those 2 topics.

Probably why you are missing something

[klompy]

Enlighten me.

[DaveM]

The vague similarity is, people don't realise it's starting to get pushed more than they think, and it may well get to the point where tyre size also requires you to be a club member.

I have found out this weekend, there are people using Murrays train of thought, to try to ban large tyres from 4x4's, and also aggressive tyres completely from land (simexs etc), using this site for video "evidence" and the public bitching against Murray as a means to lurk in the background.

So, by all means, as you were. Murray has gone all out publicly to try to get a limit, but this person is attempting to do it in small bites, in the background.

[klompy]

So the ban would be for public property/DOC controlled land only.You can do what you like on private property.

[xj]

Fowing on from Daves comment above, below are some excerpts from another 4x4 forum in NZ which on the face of it goes some way to supporting what he has posted. I will not name the forum nor identify the posters as its obviously part of what they would like to happen..... Additionally this is a free to view forum (well, I'm not a paying member and got to view all the info contained therein), so again, any info contained therein is in the realm of the public domain.

by XXXXXXXXXX on Sat May 26, 2012 1:50 pm
Its not being used because people like me have not been supportive of this forum, not on purpose because its a great opportunity, but we need to get behind it I agree. I been thinking about it, if you look on that other 4WD forum you will find that most (not all) of those people are stupid, ill informed, and most likely would not pass the same test that Dan and Derek passed recently in Wellington. We need to upset some people in order to get this forum rolling.

by XXXXXXXX on Sat May 26, 2012 6:57 pm
I did look at that other place once. The founders did a massive amount of work and there idea was great but it has been taken over by people with more money than sense and you always get the feeling that if you aren't running 37 inch tyres and a modified v8 you are wasting your time and theres.

by XXXXXXXXXX on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:34 pm
ORE gets picked on not because of the 98% of good honest 4wders that belong there and also probably belong to other clubs and or follow the rules etc Its the other 2% that wouldnt understand that they were being picked on or why even if you spelled it out to them. Unfortunately this 2% effectively rule the ORE forum and really give the impression that beyond there own 4wding pleasure nothing matters. Some of these people are in the management of ORE so dont expect that to change anytime soon. That 2% are the tar and feathers on what could be a good organisation.

And a retort from someone thats able to think a little bit

by XXXXXXXX on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:34 pm

As an occasional user of ORE over the past few years I don't necessarily identify with the disparaging generalisations stated above, but I can GUARANTEE that little will put off a potential new forum user who is feeling a little trepidatious more than seeing aggressive or abusive posts, triply so if they feel those posts are directed at them. Those of you generalising others as stupid or idiots in what is a public place should be ashamed of yourselves. Do you really think anyone coming here as an ORE user and reading that is likely to feel welcome? Do you really think this forum can succeed without attracting a significant proportion of its user base from the current ORE users? There aren't that many people in NZ, never mind those who give a damn about 4wd.

The idea that upsetting people is the way to get this forum going is laughable, unless you want it full of trolling, abuse, arrogant regulars who belittle new members and virtually nothing of value. I challenge you to show me a single successful internet forum where that is the approach out of the tens of thousands on the 'net if you can. Sure some forums can be a bit rough - Pirate4x4 comes to mind in that regard - but that's not suffering fools at worst. No forum with any users sets out to upset people for the sake of it.

Some interesting comments from some folk who are obviously looking to push their own unique barrow and who are prepared to start a shitfight in order to attract people to their own forum. Hey, posting up the above may be playing into their hands to a degree. After all theres two ways to start a fight, surreptiously, or blatantly. But there's only one way to end a fight and that begins by having some amount of knowledge of what the other fellas up too.

Seems their tactic might have been to try to be sneaky about it, or alternatly hope someone was going to see their posts and react. Well chappies, surprise.. much harder to hit someone if they see it coming.

Naieve to think that someone wouldnt post up on here with the above info??? Or a calculated ploy hoping that someone would?? I dont believe for a moment these people are overly naieve, so can only assume they want this in the open. (or maybe I give them too much credit) So, have at it folks, feel free to pop up, identify yourselves and have a conversation out in the open.

As always, I can be contacted to discuss in person if anyone wants to have a crack

Mark Craig
021475822

[Tarmac]

"hangs head in shame, pushing own barrow - While standing on soap box"

I thing apathy is how those that are vocal get their own way. Squeaky wheel getting oil etc.. If "his" agruments have no real basis then why not challange them? Silence is how that guy with the mo got to run Germany for a few years in the 30s 40s