1080

[kbushnz]

Stumbled accross this tonight...
Real bloody shame.....I feel disgusted at what the Govt is doing...



You can vote here..
http://www.tvwild.co.nz/poll/

[KIWI_TERRANO]

Watch some of the graft brothers stuf....

This ain't a topic to get me started on... Hate the sh$t with a passion

[mudnutz]

Sad!!! Vote done.

[BlakeJ]

unfortunatly this is a pretty heated topic and can spark many debates. I understand there are a lot of hunters on this website that greatly oppose 1080 for the reasons shown above and for the fact it kills deer. Im finishing off a degree in foresty science and 1080 has been a big part of many of my boilogy and conservation papers, allbeit a small but important part of my degree. Unfortunatly in a real two sided perspective 1080 is the lesser of two evils, there is no current substitute, and we need it, and we need to continue dropping it. IMHO the goverment needs to control and regulate the drops more, high concentrations and going into low risk areas, the pest population needs to be estimated better to regulate concentrations. Lifes a bitch and its all a money game, we could do without it if we had a million trappers and bottomless pockets but we dont. If the regulate it a bit better it is a very effective poison, pretty much completly dissolves in water (residues may be there but sweet #### all) and the main two things it kills that it aint sposed too are dogs and deer. If it wasnt for 1080 we would have many more extint species, both animal and flora and fauna.
My 2c

[KIWI_TERRANO]

unfortunatly this is a pretty heated topic and can spark many debates. I understand there are a lot of hunters on this website that greatly oppose 1080 for the reasons shown above and for the fact it kills deer. Im finishing off a degree in foresty science and 1080 has been a big part of many of my boilogy and conservation papers, allbeit a small but important part of my degree. Unfortunatly in a real two sided perspective 1080 is the lesser of two evils, there is no current substitute, and we need it, and we need to continue dropping it. IMHO the goverment needs to control and regulate the drops more, high concentrations and going into low risk areas, the pest population needs to be estimated better to regulate concentrations. Lifes a bitch and its all a money game, we could do without it if we had a million trappers and bottomless pockets but we dont. If the regulate it a bit better it is a very effective poison, pretty much completly dissolves in water (residues may be there but sweet #### all) and the main two things it kills that it aint sposed too are dogs and deer. If it wasnt for 1080 we would have many more extint species, both animal and flora and fauna.
My 2c

You've been feed the govt bull that they won't you to beleive
I know farmers who have lost cattle to 1080. I personally and mates have had poisoning in our dogs on our on farms from 1080 over spray.

It kills anything and everything incl native wildlife and plants....

My aunty did a lot of 1080 testing for land are and got told same as you but you only have to go for a walk in the bush to see its a load of rubbish


If it was so hArmless why did they dump the kaikoura water supply when someone said they dropped pellets in?

[BlakeJ]

becuase you not supposed to intentially drop it in water, since when have i been fed government rubbish, ive never talked to anyone in the govenrment. My knowledge has come from professor David Norton, an indepented Ecologist doing research in conservation. A well respected NZ conservationist, research him if you like. You will find it doesnt effect native flora and fauna and again, if it does its much less of an effect than the invasive exotic species currently raping out landscape. Until someone creates something better, we need 1080, and we will continue dropping it. Your like all these other left wingers that think our goverment is out to #### our own country, when in fact our goverment is advised by world class scientists, not farmers who dont liek their dogs getting killed

[KIWI_TERRANO]

If its not to be in water ways why does doc put it in waterways......?

I do want the best for NZ and don't think the govt are out to f our country but they do twist info to make it look good and the govt could get doll bludgers out trapping instead of sitting at home getting wasted.

If it's so great why have so many country's band it? We buy 98% of 1080 and keep the company going

[BlakeJ]

the govt could get doll bludgers out trapping instead of sitting at home getting wasted.

Well we see eye to eye there, but you and me both know in this shitty pc world that aint going to happen. I cant remember exatcly but it takes around 24 hours to break down in waterways, so if its in direct contact with an aquifer or city watersource thats bad, streams and shit they cant really help, but they are fadts moving and will be far less of an issue

[bang-thud-thump]

Blake you are wrong.
Its that simple.

180 is death, thats why its banned in so many places.

We dont need it. we never did.

The only people that 'need it' are those who make a living from the propaganda.

Hunters make videos.

DOC lie and falsify photos to pretend herbivores eat little birds.

Its a disgrace.

Watch the videos and read the Third Wave.

Uni doesnt educate like they like to claim.

[petefj40]

It's been thrashed out here on ORE before.

Here's some reading for ya.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... =1&t=18854

[T-Boon]

Walking in poisoned areas is actually scary, its silent, no insects, no birds, just the sound of the wind, It can destroy whole ecosystems, really eerie and i didn't believe it until i walked it myself.

We don't even know accurately the amount of possums in NZ.

[basics]

Walking in poisoned areas is actually scary, its silent, no insects, no birds, just the sound of the wind, It can destroy whole ecosystems, really eerie and i didn't believe it until i walked it myself.

this is very true. go walk on any big private block and listen to the difference in bird life. its sceary when you see (hear) the difference

[1justin]

I have been out rabbit shooting where there numbers are high and if small mamials arnt keepd in cheek i can see the problem

1080 is a bait its designed to kill everything that would eat flour witch i would say would be every herbivore or omnivore and once they die any carnivor that eats them, also anything that drinks the water its been dropped into,so that's everything!

if we dont have the money to control the problem effectively then we shouldn't have the right to inhumanly kill animals, im sure if someone was to put down there pet with 1080 they would be charged with animal cruelty, i dont see why the goverment should be allowed to do it to wild and owned animals because it makes for more profitable farming, funny how moneys the reason we cant afford to more effectivly kill them, yet making more moneys the reason they are being killed in the first place as i cant see how killing off native birds in an area protects them from dead possums in that area

i guess its a problem like any other in a democracy to many townies who dont know or dont care about things like this so there's not enough voices population wise to put pressure on government to force change, they just need alot of money to pay lobbyists and marketing company's to push the anti 1080 message and the goverment would probly change the law to save votes, look how well the paw justice thing did with just a bit of money for markiting

the native plant growth and animals where dammed the moment a ship landed on these shores where the ones who brought all these problems and no shortcut posining is going to change that in any way for the long term

[Dr_PC]

as a total aside, we never seemed to have the issue of the Kauri tress dying until we started using 1080 in the kauri tree areas either

[BlakeJ]

unless some of you guys are scientists ecologists what you are speaking of is hearsay, opinions and most of it is wrong. Sure 1080 kills things, its a poison, thats what it is designed to do. I am educated in forestry and ecology, 1080 does not effect plants and it will not kill kauri trees, that is near impossible. it breaks down incredibly quickly in the ground and water. if any of you have worked with the dropping of 1080 you will know for one it is not a "spray" it is pellets and are normally dropped at a density of about 1 pellet every 10-20 sqr mtres. yes 1080 will kill dogs, thats why you dont hunt in 1080 areas, these areas are well signposted. yes it kills deer, tough titties, deer are an invasive species that our govt couldnt give 2 shits about. we would all like to see bludgers trapping instead of it, but we know that this is near impossible in many areas.

I have a member of my family high up in the Animal Health Board (AHB). He commissions 1080 drops quite often. This is a way of clearing areas of TB. TB is pretty rampant in NZ, you dont know how bad it is, possums and even pigs etc can spread TB like wildfire, 1080 alongside of destroying cattle is needed to prevent TB taking off. people still complain yet its the most effective posion we have available that meets many criteria. the govt does not just choose it because it is a strong posion, the selection criteria is split into about 10 different categories and 1080 comes out lightyears above anything else available.

if it wasnt for 1080 many of you famers may not have cattle to farm anymore. i know its a touchy subject and im going to spark heated debate. point im getting accross is yea 1080 is freking harsh, and it does some irreversible damage, but the consequences of not using it are far more detrimental to the country than that of using it.

Dont hate the player, hate the game, the biosecurity game

[Twodiffs]

Gotta say whatever Blake.....we spend alot of time at a hut on the westcoast, accessible by 4wd or jetboat only, used to have bush robins and a whole heap of small birds and possums hanging around the hut.

Do some research on the anti 1080 brigade from Kumara south to Hari Hari, they protested big time at massive helicopter drops of which there have been 2-3 in the last 12-18 months. Haven't seen a possum for ages or heard one - bush robins and the other small birds...what are they??????
Don't see them anymore either!!

[1justin]

"Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience"

so are you saying you have gone out in a lot of areas before and after 1080 drops? and if so can you tell me there was similar numbers of animal life before and after and only dead possums rats dogs and deer? or are you just speaking from hearsay yourself?

"unless some of you guys are scientists ecologists what you are speaking of is hearsay, opinions and most of it is wrong. Sure 1080 kills things, its a poison, thats what it is designed to do. I am educated in forestry and ecology"

everthing some one has told you in a class room, everything you have read in a book. comes under the definition of hearsay.

most the people here are speaking from first hand experience and not trying to tell us any more than there experience, or people are expressing there opinions and not trying to say there right just that is there opinion,

and saying that most of them are wrong... or more to the point your hearsay and opinion is right, believing you know best and more than others that dont agree with your train of thought because you believe you are right, shows how closed minded and short sighted you are being, maybe you can learn something from others who spend alot of time out in the same areas before and after 1080 drops, instead of dismissing them assuming they are just annoyed hunters with less deer to shot and dead dogs having a waa

[Munks1]

This drop is happening today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIZk8irj ... r_embedded

Ive hunted, rode bikes and 4x4d this block. Access is exellent. baitlineing would be a breeze.
Graeme runs a commercial hunting operation in this block - well he was untill today.

I voiced my concern to the waikato regional council and was told that the only company who put in a tender for this block was the 1080 chooper guys. And according to the Waikato regional council, Graeme in this video 'requested' the 1080 chopper drop.

Safety and common sence should be in play here, not Politics and money.

[007]

I don't want to get In to a debate if it is good or not. I beleive It will not wipe out possums they will come back over time.

Department of conservation should listen to there community.

[mike]

opinions schmions

I would say blake has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If you want the facts then read this website.
http://www.1080facts.co.nz/

Its to easy to get emotional about this stuff but unless you look at the facts its just misguided opinions.

[Swamped]

I don't have free access to research databases anymore so haven't seen anything recently but the Review paper By spurr and powlesland (1997) - i think its publicly available? shows that a lot of non-target species, in particular native birds can and are at a high risk. Some good research articles about which may allow actual clarification of whats goin on and not just hearsay. Just watch whos funding the research as information can be skewed to suit their motives. That kinda goes for all topics though...

[Sadam_Husain]

that shits so good we've been using it non stop for 40 years and theres still just as many if not more possums than there ever was

[juz]

opinions schmions

I would say blake has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If you want the facts then read this website.
http://www.1080facts.co.nz/

Its to easy to get emotional about this stuff but unless you look at the facts its just misguided opinions.

1080facts.co.nz - A Federated Farmers - Forest and Bird Initiative
Supporting Organisations - Forest and Bird, AHB and DOC.......



And your dead right Sadam, some of the places I hunt Ive never seen more Possums than I do now... and its DOC 1080d land.

[petefj40]

opinions schmions

I would say blake has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If you want the facts then read this website.
http://www.1080facts.co.nz/

Its to easy to get emotional about this stuff but unless you look at the facts its just misguided opinions.

I feel so much better about NZ's bird, wildlife and water ways now after reading the content of that website.

It's interesting Mike. The apparent "facts" stated on that 1080facts.co.nz website only state good things about 1080.

So according to that website, we all talking about nothing, apparently.

[mike]

from the front page of that website:

The ERMA Review

The Environmental Risk Management Authority (ERMA), is New Zealand's independent public watch dog, and is charged with analysing all actual and perceived risks and perceived risks to the New Zealand environment. During 2007 ERMA undertook a rigorous, comprehensive review of 1080, including a series of nationwide public hearings. All interested parties were invited to present written and oral submissions to an independent committee. The committee spent four months of intensive deliberation, which included an independent analysis of all the scientific data. ERMA concluded that the benefits of using 1080 clearly outweighed the risks, and approved its continued use in aerial and ground applications, subject to strict controls

DOWNLOAD THE ERMA REVIEW HERE
http://archive.ermanz.govt.nz/news-even ... 0FINAL.pdf

If its the best thing we have to control the problem then that's why its in use. If you have a better alternative then let the powers that be know about it

[Sadam_Husain]

If its the best thing we have to control the problem then that's why its in use.

but thats the problem it dosent control the problem, theres no question its effectiveness of a high 90% kill rate in the target areas but theres no means of controling reinfestation in the control area and numbers come straight back up to the possum numbers the area can sustain in a very short period of time..... hence the shit has been continually dumped on the same places non stop for 40 years and the govt dosent realise and have no means of controling the possums running straight back in the open door around the back

[mike]

It does control the problem, it just doesn't solve the problem.

So I'm pretty sure the government realises that the possums are running straight back in the door. They completely eradicate them on the offshore islands as there is no means for re-invasion due to isolation. For the mainland it has to be about keeping them in check as this government does not have the means to eradicate as you suggest. It's definitely easier to suggest eradication than actually carry it out. Eradication via trapping? Not really going to happen due to cost and man power. What does that leave? How do you eradicate a problem of this size. All they can do, with their limited funds (A very large proportion of docs budget is spent on pest control) is do the best they can with 1080. If they stopped using 1080 my bet is that possums would soon become plague status like the rabbits in Canterbury years ago and we would say good bye to our native birds (which I have witnessed in full song in 1080 dropped areas in the Marlborough sounds)

This is a good article that supports your back door theory. Conclusion page 11 states repopulation by immigration not reproduction.
http://www.newzealandecology.org.nz/nzj ... eeneIP.pdf

So we really need a mixamatosis for possums, who's going to smuggle that in and hopefully the side effects are less than 1080!

[UBZ]

napham and agent orange diddnt work in Vietnam what makes them think it will work here.

having to shoot your own dog to put it out of it misery .
having heard the silence in the bush
having smelt the deeth.

carpet bombing poison is not a solution

both sides spin the story .
activists what media time
scientists want to retian thier corporate research grants

a commen theme is that thier is no alternative , but my impression is thy no one is looking for an alternative , simply 1080 is cheaper and easier .

a methodical , trapping & baiting program , segregating and isolating sections of bush has been well documented as being the most effective way of bring the possum and stoat population under control .
but it all makes perfect sense when expressed in dollars and cents .....

on a side note , the biggest culprits for the spread of TB are stray cattle and sheep.....

[BlakeJ]

scientists want to retian thier corporate research grants

This is a very touchy subject with many of my professors and supervisors, you will find this is not the case and is a sterotype put on scientists, they are NOT short of work and do not bias their research in order to gain work. these guys and gals are passionate about our country and wildlife

a common theme is that there is no alternative , but my impression is that no one is looking for an alternative , simply 1080 is cheaper and easier .

YOur wrong hear sorry mate, many alternatives have been tested and evaulated. if you have the time go here http://www.pce.parliament.nz/publicatio ... t-forests/ and read jan wrights report, and before you all start dont give me the she works for the government bullshit, research her background before you state your opinions.

a methodical , trapping & baiting program , segregating and isolating sections of bush has been well documented as being the most effective way of bring the possum and stoat population under control .
but it all makes perfect sense when expressed in dollars and cents .....

your right, it does work, and it would be better. but your also right, it costs a shit ton of money, money our govt does not have, plus many areas and still impossible to trap in. try doing trapping on the west coast, or the rimutakas or many other places up north, it just wont happen.

on a side note , the biggest culprits for the spread of TB are stray cattle and sheep.....

Yes they are important carriers, and thats why the AHB has such a busy job on their hands managing heards of cattle, pigs are also a big one. but again do some more research before you state that they are the biggest culprits, as this is incorrect, it is possums, talk to to the AHB, they have a lot of evidence to prove this. i member of my family is in charge of assesing TB risk in cattle and controlling it, so ive caught a bit of a whif of what they go through

The point is, ATM 1080 is a neccesary evil

[oljamesyboy]

tb free research report.

http://tbfree.org.nz/Portals/0/AHB%20An ... df#page=24