Bye bye Fj40, hello LandRover-some parts and advice needed

[Mongoose]

You may have already see the pics on the show us ya landy thread but thought I'd start a build thread anyway. As you can see from the title I've had 4 FJ40s and a 60 series, was actually looking for another 40 but put off by the pretty crazy prices they're going for now and ended up finding a reasonably tidy '76 S3 Land Rover for $3.5k. Yeah they may not be as strong as a 40 but at less than half the price I can't believe it's less than half the truck and it's also nice to drive something a bit different from the legions of 40s on the road.




Looked pretty tidy so I bought it unseen and had Jeffs bring it up from Dunners, well impressed with them I have to say. Really friendly, great communication, fast service and cost me much less than I'd pay to go down and get it myself.

The paint looked patchy which I wasn't too worried about, started giving it a bit of a clean up and realised the dull green paint was coming off and leaving nice shiny factory green underneath. Went over the bonnet and guard tops with thinners, stuck some polish on it and the front now looks like this:



So I plan to go over the rest of the truck doing the same, maybe I'll find out at some point why the previous owner painted over the nice shiny factory paint but at this point it looks like they were just going for a pretend army matt look.

Had a good look over it as the WOF is due soon to find some holes peppered in the panel basically in front of your feet in the footwell, right where mud getting thrown up from the front wheels would have settled. Some lazy arse has left the mud on there until it rotted through. Gotta love the old Previous Owners.
It has the usual mess of chopped and bodged "I don't need an auto electrician" wiring mods. The headlight switch doesn't work main beam so someone has chopped the wires and routed them to a huge switch on the floor, which also doesn't work so I'm on the lookout for a new column switch.

Other than that not too much wrong so far, the sunroof some hero has chopped into the flat part of the roof over the rear tub leaks like a b^&stard and the roof flexes cos they've chopped out a section of the centre brace that runs the length of the roof (genius move). It also leaks around the top corners of the windscreen somewhere too. Syncro is also buggered on all gears on the box it appears, once it's warmed up you need to be very careful or double-declutch to avoid massive graunching noises. Is it normal for syncro wear to be more obvious once a box is warm?

Soooo, plans and thoughts:

It's going to be a daily driver so will be kept stockish to keep it cheap to run but I still want it capable off road for bits of fun when I feel like it. I'm liking the look of the 235/80/16 tyres, tall but not too wide (about 10") and the steering is surprisingly nice after the bloody awful workout that steering my FJ40 was with 33x12.5s.
The rears are worn out muds which i'm thinking will fail WOF, fronts are A/T in decent nick so I have the dilemma, I want muds so it's as capable as possible when needed but it will see 90% of it's life on road I'd say so muds are a bit of a waste. Would appreciate peoples' thoughts on this, all I know is my 60 on muds was a hell of a lot safer last winter in the snow than my g/f's dad's Smurf on A/Ts.

I want to go with a soft-top since they were a factory option it shouldn't be too much hassle and I loved my 40 with the roof off it, since this thing leaks so badly anyway it can't be that much worse. So I'm on the lookout for a factory frame with the door top surrounds etc. Plus it looks like I'll need a different windscreen frame with the studs on it so if anyone has this stuff they'd be keen to sell let me know.

The main other immediate issue is the gearing, it has a 2.4 Isuzu n/a diesel in it which actually goes just fine, granted I haven't shown it a hill yet, but it runs out of revs by about 80. Fairy's are expensive but a reasonably straightforward solution, anyone have any thoughts on this as opposed to swapping the diffs for army v8 ones for the better ratio?

That's about all for now, need to get my Mig on to patch up the holes in the firewall and a patch on the passenger side outrigger and see if I can get the old tractor a warrant.

All thoughts/advice/cheap parts welcome. Cheers. Greg.

[Sadam_Husain]

Had a good look over it as the WOF is due soon to find some holes peppered in the panel basically in front of your feet in the footwell, right where mud getting thrown up from the front wheels would have settled. Some lazy arse has left the mud on there until it rotted through. Gotta love the old Previous Owners.

shit thats a tidy looking old landy mongoose
the firewalls are steel and always rot out with the added electrolisys of the allow and steel dis-simular metals, the door frames often did the same, I had a drivers door collapse and start bending in the middle every time you opened it

It has the usual mess of chopped and bodged "I don't need an auto electrician" wiring mods. The headlight switch doesn't work main beam so someone has chopped the wires and routed them to a huge switch on the floor, which also doesn't work so I'm on the lookout for a new column switch.

all the landys we ever owned had the round foot switch to control hi/low beam

Syncro is also buggered on all gears on the box it appears, once it's warmed up you need to be very careful or double-declutch to avoid massive graunching noises. Is it normal for syncro wear to be more obvious once a box is warm?

dont know if/when they ever changed it but there never used to be proper syncros on 1st and 2nd gears

[Mongoose]

shit thats a tidy looking old landy mongoose
the firewalls are steel and always rot out with the added electrolisys of the allow and steel dis-simular metals, the door frames often did the same, I had a drivers door collapse and start bending in the middle every time you opened it

Thanks, yeah it's a tidy old bus, I'm very happy for the money for sure. A bit of a patch up here and there but I'm not complaining, my previous FJ40 that I bought for the same money was in need of quite a bit of work.
The door frames look ok, only the top section along the bottom of the window frame has some surface rust.

all the landys we ever owned had the round foot switch to control hi/low beam

Hmm ok, the wiring is definitely chopped and joined at the switch and goes to the foot switch, must just be a common way to fix and easier than resoldering the wires to a new column switch. I may just stick with the floor one, had one on my old Herald and it worked just fine but I will need to replace the floor one as it's not working either, might strip it and see if I can fix it though.

dont know if/when they ever changed it but there never used to be proper syncros on 1st and 2nd gears

Maybe that's just it then, it is massively worse on 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th are ok as long as you either just change a bit slowly or double-declutch so maybe just a wee bit tired. I'm sure I'll get used to it, just been a while since I've had to double-declutch. The guy I bought it from gave me a spare box and transfer anyways so I might rebuild them in time so I have a known good box to put in. I say that but I'd have no idea where to start, never rebuilt a gearbox before but I figure if you're slow and methodical it'd be ok. Maybe.

Cheers mate.

[Ralfie]

Syncro is also buggered on all gears on the box it appears, once it's warmed up you need to be very careful or double-declutch to avoid massive graunching noises. Is it normal for syncro wear to be more obvious once a box is warm?

Cheers. Greg.

early series gearboxes didn't have syncro and the series three were the first with syncros. Given that he 'gave you a spare box' it might have already had a gearbox swap with older box.
Otherwise check what oil is currently in the gearbox. People do often use the wrong oil to 'hide' problems.

When buying used vehicles I always consider it a good idea to change all oils etc so you know its been serviced and has the right fluids etc.

[Mongoose]

Syncro is also buggered on all gears on the box it appears, once it's warmed up you need to be very careful or double-declutch to avoid massive graunching noises. Is it normal for syncro wear to be more obvious once a box is warm?

Cheers. Greg.

early series gearboxes didn't have syncro and the series three were the first with syncros. Given that he 'gave you a spare box' it might have already had a gearbox swap with older box.
Otherwise check what oil is currently in the gearbox. People do often use the wrong oil to 'hide' problems.

When buying used vehicles I always consider it a good idea to change all oils etc so you know its been serviced and has the right fluids etc.

Thanks Ralfie, yeah I plan to do a full service on it despite the guy saying he'd just done the gearbox and diffs.

[Cameron]

didn't people used to put a pair of rover 90 car diffs in these to increase the road speed as well? might be worth a look.

[Ralfie]

didn't people used to put a pair of rover 90 car diffs in these to increase the road speed as well? might be worth a look.

Yes,
Standard series LR is 4.7:1
Rover 90 car was 3.9:1 ratio.
Early Range Rover and front 110 are 3.54:1
all have the 10-spline axles so straight swap.

There other aftermarket crown wheel and pinion options such as 4.1:1 but they would be costly to buy new.

[Cleary]

early series gearboxes didn't have syncro and the series three were the first with syncros. Given that he 'gave you a spare box' it might have already had a gearbox swap with older box.

Aaaaah the old landrover second gear crunch... can't remember driving one without it

[DieselBoy]

Even the R380 box in The110 does the 2nd gear crunch if you push it through to fast!!!!

235/85/16 is the modern equivalent of the 750 16. They measure just over 32" depending on what make of tyre and what size rim you use.

My 235/85/16 Scorpions measure 32.5" on a 5.5" wide rim.

Saying that, my next set of tyres will be 255/85/16's, which are over 33" but still nice and skiny, so maybe look at those too. Might help top speed also

Still think its awesome you went for the S3 over a Fawty

[kiaora]

Agree the Series 3 was when Landrover changed to all synco gearboxes and they weren't as strong. When you drain the gearbox let the oil settle and when you poor it into a can look for brass filings in the old oil. That might indicate wear in the syncros. I've found in my old 70's Range Rover that Castrol VMX gearbox oil which has a SAE80 rating has helped with gear shifting.

Re diffs we put a pair of range rover diff heads in our series 2A which had a Nissan LD28 diesel engine. It improved top speed and it was a little quieter but did notice when you got to a hill that you had to chop down a gear earlier. You need to think about the max torque range for your engine. Overdrive boxes are great but as you say expensive and parts are a problem.

Re the Indicator/dip switch stalk, you may find they are the same as one from a Mini or other Leyland car of the same vintage.

[Mongoose]

didn't people used to put a pair of rover 90 car diffs in these to increase the road speed as well? might be worth a look.

Yes,
Standard series LR is 4.7:1
Rover 90 car was 3.9:1 ratio.
Early Range Rover and front 110 are 3.54:1
all have the 10-spline axles so straight swap.

There other aftermarket crown wheel and pinion options such as 4.1:1 but they would be costly to buy new.

Cool, so I would just need Rover 90 diff centres then presumably, spose getting the whole axles would be easiest, thanks for the info!!

Aaaaah the old landrover second gear crunch... can't remember driving one without it

Ah well, maybe i just live with it as a feature then. To be fair mine seems to have the 2nd gear crunch on all 4 once it's warmed up

Even the R380 box in The110 does the 2nd gear crunch if you push it through to fast!!!!

235/85/16 is the modern equivalent of the 750 16. They measure just over 32" depending on what make of tyre and what size rim you use.

My 235/85/16 Scorpions measure 32.5" on a 5.5" wide rim.

Saying that, my next set of tyres will be 255/85/16's, which are over 33" but still nice and skiny, so maybe look at those too. Might help top speed also

Still think its awesome you went for the S3 over a Fawty

Hey Dieselboy, yeah I'm being pretty slow with the box, it's pretty much ok in 3rd and 4th if you're slow but 2nd is all but impossible not to crunch.
Yep I'd worked out the 235s were about 32 which is fine by me, couldn't squeeze any more width in there without some offset wheels to space em out a bit. Wouldn't mind that if anyone has some wheels, wider track would make it more stable. I actually quite like the skinny look though, kinda suits the truck.

Yeah I think it's awesome too, I loved my 40s don't get me wrong but it is just nice to have something different. Plus I'm from Britain (don't hate me) so I've kinda always wanted a Landy.

Agree the Series 3 was when Landrover changed to all synco gearboxes and they weren't as strong. When you drain the gearbox let the oil settle and when you poor it into a can look for brass filings in the old oil. That might indicate wear in the syncros. I've found in my old 70's Range Rover that Castrol VMX gearbox oil which has a SAE80 rating has helped with gear shifting.

Re diffs we put a pair of range rover diff heads in our series 2A which had a Nissan LD28 diesel engine. It improved top speed and it was a little quieter but did notice when you got to a hill that you had to chop down a gear earlier. You need to think about the max torque range for your engine. Overdrive boxes are great but as you say expensive and parts are a problem.

Re the Indicator/dip switch stalk, you may find they are the same as one from a Mini or other Leyland car of the same vintage.

Cool, I will have a look once I've done the oil change, few things to worry about first and only have a week or so to get the welding etc. done so I can get a wof. Thanks for the Castrol tip, where do you usually get that?

Re the Rangie diffs, I do wonder if the little Isuzu 2.4 will cope, it must have less torque than an LD28, I would worry if I sorted the gearing with diffs that it'd useless on hills. The previous owner already warned me that you had to approch hills with patience Maybe a wee turbo is the way to go but I don't want to grenade the engine.

Good suggestion for the indicator stalk switch, I've checked the wiring and it's definitely just the switch that's faulty - well one of the headlights too but that's ok. Leyland's parts bin mentality probably does mean I could grab one from some other 70s leyland car. I'll have an ask about on the landy forums, in the mean time I'll grab another of the big stupid floor switches or solder in something a bit smaller with a decent current rating.

Thanks for all the support guys, it feels good to be a Landy owner

[Cameron]

I got a 4 litre of that vmx stuff from supercheap.

[kiaora]

SuperCheap and Repco sell the oil. I find SuperCheap usually has better deals. I've also seen the dip switch button that's floor mounted at SuperCheap.

[Mongoose]

Ahhhh nice, thanks fellas

[aroma]

narva do floor mounted headlight switches,hella prob do as well
if you find resonably priced stalk switch let us know where cheers
ps looks good and tidy

[Mongoose]

narva do floor mounted headlight switches,hella prob do as well
if you find resonably priced stalk switch let us know where cheers
ps looks good and tidy

thanks dude, got distracted with driving it the last few days but will be back on it beginning of next week. I'm keener to get a stalk switch but will probably just replace the floor switch for the moment to get it through the warrant.

By the way, took it for a drive out to Little River today and well pleased with how it goes, got a big thumbs up from a guy in a fairly new Defender on the road back. Definitely bonding with the Landy p.s., to the owners of the little cafe/art gallery in Little River, don't be angry about the puddle of oil on the park outside your cafe, he just likes to leave his mark . Instead be pleased that my 1976 Land Rover made your cafe just that bit cooler for the half hour I was parked outside

[007]

Looks tidy. I personally would keep it stock it is to be a collector item one day

[noexitroad]

the good thing about these is parts are cheap. i wouldn't go crazy on upgrades, it's an oldie and always will be. for what you paid you could have got a disco1 with a heater and no leaks so just live with it and enjoy it for what it is. the more you spend, the less it will be worth

[Mongoose]

I don't think I gave the impression I was going to go crazy, this is an everyday driver so will be kept close to stock, just a few small upgrades to make it a bit more pleasant to be in and drive. Also want to make sure when I'm out fishing or hunting in it that I get home again safely.

Mainly planning to gradually resolve all the little niggles and undo some of the unwelcome previous owner mods, this is definitely not going to be some big budget off road beast. I do plan to go with a soft-top though.

Decided to stick with All Terrain tyres at the moment at the size which are on it now, the front 2 are fine so that means I only need to replace the worn out muds that are on the rear. It's likely this truck will spend 90% of its time on the road so there's just no point in muds really.

I'll update once there's some progress, still tidying up the 60 series for the warrant then I can sell it and get on with the Landy.

[kiaora]

New Stalks for sale on T/M see link

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 220923.htm

[Mongoose]

New Stalks for sale on T/M see link

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 220923.htm

Thankyou kiaora but I just got a PM from lilpigzuk saying he could supply new replacements for much less than that guy on Trademe. Cheers mate.

[Overkill]

New Stalks for sale on T/M see link

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 220923.htm

Thankyou kiaora but I just got a PM from lilpigzuk saying he could supply new replacements for much less than that guy on Trademe. Cheers mate.

Be interesting the price lilpigzuk can supply, if cheap I may look at getting parts local.......at the moment I purchase direct from the UK, that part would cost you around NZ$40 including freight, I normally get a few bits and pieces when I do an order to make it worth it

Have a look at the following site, this is where I mainly get my gear from and find them brilliant for communication and delivery.........

http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/indicator-s ... p-261.html

[Mongoose]

New Stalks for sale on T/M see link

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 220923.htm

Thankyou kiaora but I just got a PM from lilpigzuk saying he could supply new replacements for much less than that guy on Trademe. Cheers mate.

Be interesting the price lilpigzuk can supply, if cheap I may look at getting parts local.......at the moment I purchase direct from the UK, that part would cost you around NZ$40 including freight, I normally get a few bits and pieces when I do an order to make it worth it

Have a look at the following site, this is where I mainly get my gear from and find them brilliant for communication and delivery.........

http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/indicator-s ... p-261.html

Cool thanks for that, I'd rather spend the money in New Zealand and zuk's price wasn't too far off what you're quoting. Drop him a PM if you're looking for anything.

Cheers.

[jimichelle]

bit of a blast from the past no one has mentioned this is an aussie assembled one has the bigger fuel tank

[Punga]

Hi Mongoose

Its great to see another old landy being used and enjoyed instead of locked up in a shed.

The low gearing realy bothered me when I first purchased my s3 with holden 173 in it. I looked at overdrives, changing diff heads, replacing the 4th gear with and overdrive ratio and a 5 spd gearbox conversion. Each had their pros and cons:

Overdrives new are expensive at least 2k and 2nd hand ones I looked at were slogged out or some parts for the conversion were missing and hard to source.

Changing diff heads, rover 90 if you can find a pair or range rover ones would do the trick, what put me off was losing the low gear ratios in 4wd.

Replacing 4th gear with an overdrive ratio was going to reduce rpm by roughly 23-33% and costs around 1k

Replacing the gearbox with a 5spd unit, apparently there is a spanish model s3 (Santana) with 5spd box (wouldn't know where to source one) or you could fit a later model landrover 5spd ,requires a conversion kit due to transfer case being on the wrong side theres a place in the uk specialising in that.

Changing tyres from 750 SATs to hankook mts 235/85 r16s on lwb rims helped a little.

In the end I've resigned myself to doing 80kph everywhere in it and stopping at every petrol station.

[Mongoose]

bit of a blast from the past no one has mentioned this is an aussie assembled one has the bigger fuel tank

Hey Jimichelle, thanks that's good to know.

Hi Mongoose

Its great to see another old landy being used and enjoyed instead of locked up in a shed.........

.........In the end I've resigned myself to doing 80kph everywhere in it and stopping at every petrol station.

Cheers Punga, yeah it's actually been in the shed for a while now. Just getting on top of some small bits of welding and tidying up that need done. Plus I took the roof off just before Winter so it's been under cover. Hope to get it back out again soon. Thanks for all the info on the various gearing options, I'll see how I go when I'm using the truck regularly again. TBH I'm not sure I'd like to be going much more than 80 in it anyway. I'm personally not that worried about losing some gearing for 4wding as I doubt it'll get used for much so the diff/axle option seems to make the most sense.

On another note though, just went out to start it up after a couple of months sitting still, started first pop but when I went to stick it in gear there's just a crunch and no joy with actually selecting a gear. I'm assuming something's up with the clutch after sitting, fluid level looks ok in the master cylinder and it goes in pretty ok with the transfer box in neutral but in low or high it's just graunching. Probably a dumb question but can anyone tell me what I need to be looking at?

I also managed to get hold of a nice British soft top off Trademe but need all the frame/windscreen etc. parts if anyone has them spare?

Cheers and hopefully someone can help with the gear select issue.

[Jono51]

peel the boot back to the clutch slave and see if it is leaking

[Punga]

Have you tried ramming it into gear? I know it seems a little rough, but sometimes the pressure plate seizes up when they have been sitting or when ya forget to drain the bellhousing after a river crossing!

I also have the bits that form the door frame and the capping that goes along the top of windscreen its missing the tabs but could be repaired, PM me if your intrested.

Rhyan

[Jono51]

[quote="Punga"]Have you tried ramming it into gear? I know it seems a little rough, but sometimes the pressure plate seizes up when they have been sitting or when ya forget to drain the bellhousing after a river crossing!

yeah thought of that too
another way,

would be to select low range,
depress the clutch whilst in first gear and wind over the starter and it may free up

[Mongoose]

Hey guys, yeah I did try starting it in gear quite a few times but it's still refusing to disengage. Once this rain stops I'll have a look at the slave cylinder.
Thanks for the advice all.
Cheers.