Toymotor No Go :(

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:35 pm

Phew. false alarm.

Elmo told me what for. I did'nt know that the driveshaft moved in unison with the hub only if the other hub was locked up (or has a wheel on the ground)

must be too used to seeing everything move together like in my beach buggy with it's welded diff.

Talk about a muppet! nearly gave myself a heartattack!

MULLET :oops:

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:14 pm

Just been chatting with Elmo on msn and I thought this piece of conversation might be relevant:

Elmo says:
ALL I can figure is, that the linings are slightly thicker than original, or, the shoes arent cut quite correctly, and it doesnt allow them to sit right in. by only half a mm or something would do it

mullet says:
yeh I thought of that too, but come on.....how many other people must buy those same brakeshoes? everyone with a toyota hilux between 1978ish to 1988ish.

come on I'm sure some of you hard outs must know what's going on. Rok,Deranged,supralux,suprasurf,hosehustler etc. etc. etc.

If you did'nt make that short list and consider yourself a hard out then post up how to fix my brakes and I'll put you at the top of the list.

MULLET

Mattman · Post by **Mattman** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:25 pm

As I said before, swap the old linings back in and see if the problem goes away. If it does, it's something to do with either the new shoes or how they are being fitted up.

I would put a couple of paint marks on the surface of the pads then try and rotate the the hubs. If the paint wears off then you know that it's the shows rubbing on the drums.

If you have sanded them down you won't be able to return them.....

Matt.

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:38 pm

havent tried putting the old shoes back on again due to the amount of work involved. Changing brackets over etc.

Have proved that arent rubbing on the front edge of the linings, well, belive have proved that, and they definitly dont appear to sit that far into the drum.

Mattman · Post by **Mattman** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:05 pm

Changing shoes isn't hard, always do one side at a time and leave the otherside intact to be able to use it as a reference.

Don't start the second side until you are sure that it's all fine on the first side. Nothing worse than not knowing how to put something together.

Change one side of your truck back to the old shoes and then you have something to compare to.

Matt.

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:10 pm

leave the otherside intact to be able to use it as a reference.

yeh leaving the otherside intact does'nt really ensure that they won't get installed wrong eh elmo

MULLET

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:12 pm

They aint installed wrong! Only a mullet would do that!!

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:24 pm

Only a mullet would do that!!

What a nasty person, but I won't judge, I feel history will describe you far better than I ever could.

I found something else in the manual that I thought may be helpful, the bellcrank adjustment, looked like if that was wound on too far the handbrake would be "on" even without the cable attached. So I backed it right off. Did'nt do any good though. Here's a pic of what I'z messin with

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... h=imgAnch1

It should be noted that there is no slack in position B, even with the bellcrank adjustment backed right off there is still spring tension on the bellcrank.

clear as mud. good my work here is done.

MULLET

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:01 pm

Photos

finally!!! thanks for the lend of the cam RichardB

Check the photos out and if you can see anything obviously installed wrong please speak up.

Well, I had this idea that the brakes might be dragging because there is a problem with the hydraulic side of things maybe the way the brakes were bled, so with the drums off I pumped the brakes, which were very soft for a start and then went quite hard, the top of the shoes on either side came away from that pivot and did'nt close up again which I thought was odd, I convinced the right side shoes to close up but the left ones won't. It seems there is pressure in there and the slaves wont return for some reason.

So if anyone thinks it is a good idea (apart from elmo) to loosen the bleed screws on the brakes to see if that is the problem let me know.

pics:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02521.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02523.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02524.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02525.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02529.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02530.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02531.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02534.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02535.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... C02536.jpg

note how all the wear is on the face of the shoe where you would expect it to be not on the front edge.

MULLET

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:10 pm

comparing this pic

to this diagram

I reckon you've got your right side set up incorrectly and it is wearing on the bottom of the left pad (in your photo) where there is no pad at that point in the diagram. If you get what I'm saying

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:50 pm

ive probablly been stearing at it too long but in the diagram the left pad looks smaller than the right and in you pic it looks the other way round. tho bloody hard tell lol.could the go the other way?

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:18 am

I may be wrong also, but tend to agree with Petemcc, that the smaller pad should go at the front of the drum and the larger one at the back.

So looking at the diagram the pad at the front(on the right) looks smaller, you can tell by those little folded over tabs of metal. One pad only reaches between the two on the outside, and the other one goes over them. So according to me, you've got the front pad at the back of the drum and the back pad at the front of the drum.

Below I've marked the little tabs i was talking about in red and the end of the pad from what I can tell in the photo, and if you look at the diagram I think there round the other way.

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules.php?full=1&set_albumName=album37&id=DSC02523&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 am

As I said, Im not saying the shoes cant be on wrong, but they are on the way the old ones came. 2 shoes had pins already mounted in them for the levers to be mounted on. Those matched up with the two that came off. Linings were in same position. Also other shoes corresonded also.

Even though the picture shows both sides looking identical, they cant be. Because the parke brake cable always comes in at the same place on each side, ie,lh side if it comes in at the top on the back side, it will do the same on the other side., top back.

The picture from the manual appears to be wrong if you ask me. We nned a brake expert to look at it, but unfortunately, Mullet lives too far from one to be able to drive it to them.

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:48 am

As much as I find it hard to believe elmo may be right about one thing, the pic from the manual does appear to be wrong, the link below will show you why

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... ferror.jpg

If anyone out there has the same setup in their hilux (smurf?) I would really appreciate it if you could knock your drums off, take a few pics and post them up so we could compare them.

MULLET

monaro427 · Post by **monaro427** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:00 pm

i did my rear drums not that long ago because of oil coming out of the axle seal, took them of and replaced no probs first time you may just have them the wrong way, will check out my manual when i get home tonite, in the end i ditched the drums and have replaced with disc's at the rear of my surf far better than drums, cheap to do all under $200 dollars

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:10 pm

I have fitted a lot more brake shoes than I care to remember, the shoes have a leading side and a trailing side.
The difference is in where the lining starts on the shoe, the leading shoe allways has the lining start further down from the top of the shoe.
The leading shoe is the one closest to the front of the vehicle.
The diagram shows there being a smaller lining and a larger one, this isnt allways the case as they are generally the same size linings but bonded to the shoe in a different place.
I have struck it a few times where the linings on the shoes are thicker than normal, especially with aftermarket shoes.
If this is the case safeRbrakes can skim a small amount off the shoes or machine out the drum.
The adjuster needs to be wound fully in, the hand brake cable adjuster needs to be wound out fully before you can adjust the shoes properly.
If you need help give me a call and I can come have a look, depending on where you are. :wink:

SMOKEY · Post by **SMOKEY** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:14 pm

Mullet, by the look of your photos I would say you have got the assembly right. My thoughts are you have been supplied with over size shoes.
You could drive it if you where very careful. Remove the faulty shoes,adjusters and springs. Refit the drum. Use vice grips and clamp the rear brake hose(top of diff) use only enough clamping force to block the hose , to much and you will damage the hose. The rear brakes will now be inoperable. WARNING YOU WILL NOW ONLY HAVE FRONT BRAKES.
This will at least allow you to drive it slowly to the brake specialists.
Might be better to remove shoes and take back to where you got them and get them to check size against a standard set.
GET BRAKES,
FITZY.

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:21 pm

Had another look at them today, definitly fitted correctly, and convinced Mullet the same.

Showed him how they cant possibly be on wrong,

Took them off, and they do appear exactly the same as the old ones, but when taking messurements, yes,with a bastard file and a screw driver! They did appear to be ever so slightly different. Maybe the moulding bachine was worn or something. Ill be taking them back and showing the supplier hopefully tomorrow.

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:35 pm

Update. Elmo got another set of brakes from BNT. At the same time he got a set of genuine Toyota brakes. He came around this arvo and put the BNT brakes on and this time they work no worries. SWEET

Only thing is now we have some genuine toyota shoes still in the box, never been put on that we have no use for. Elmo will send them back to toyota if no-one wants to buy them off him. So if you want them PM Elmo ASAP.

Note: vehicle is an 84 surf 2.4 diesel LN60.

Thanks for all you help Elmo

MULLET

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:51 am

UPDATE:

Well I don't know how many fuses I have blown now, But I think I have worked out what is going on (with much help from Elmo).

It seems to be that the starter motor is a bit dodgy, what had happened the last few times that I had blown the fuse is, I would jump in, glow it, try to start it and it would be no go, (starter shorting), I would try to start it a few times (heating up the wiring because of the shorted starter and then the fuse would blow) then I would get out, swear a few times and bang on the starter motor to no avail.

Now that I know what is going on if I try to start it and it's no go, I get out straight away (no holding the key on trying to burnout the fuse) give the starter a few taps with the wrecking bar and the toymotor fires into life. I know this is no long term solution, I will have to get the starter reconditioned. But at least I'm not burning out fuses at the moment

I hope this post helps other newbies from having the same trouble I have had.

MULLET

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:27 pm

gomulletgo wrote:UPDATE:
(with much help from Elmo).
MULLET

Or was that hindrence. :wink:

monaro427 · Post by **monaro427** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:19 pm

what motor have you got, i have an old starter motor from my old 2.4 (2lt) if you want it, it worked with no problems, i don't need it as i have a supra motor sitting in mine so it is just laying around in garage taking up space, if you to buy it cheap make an offer

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:48 am

what motor have you got, i have an old starter motor from my old 2.4 (2lt) if you want it, it worked with no problems, i don't need it as i have a supra motor sitting in mine so it is just laying around in garage taking up space, if you to buy it cheap make an offer

I have the earth shattering performance of a 2L 2.4 diesel in my truck

I have no idea how much a second hand starter motor goes for, what do you want for it?

MULLET

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:30 pm

what motor have you got, i have an old starter motor from my old 2.4 (2lt) if you want it, it worked with no problems, i don't need it as i have a supra motor sitting in mine so it is just laying around in garage taking up space, if you to buy it cheap make an offer

PM sent

MULLET

monaro427 · Post by **monaro427** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:25 am

check your pms

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:19 am

check your pms

likewise

MULLET

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:37 pm

No time for an update right now, although alot has happened with my POS. Let's just say I have had no end of starter motor trouble.

Well today was the big day, I finally got it going again and took it for a drive......about 15 mins into the drive I noticed the temp guage needle was just knocking on the door of the "red zone"......Fark! Pulled over, switched off the engine and let the biarch really cook up for a minute or two :wink:

Na just kidding, pulled over and let it idle for a while until the temp had dropped back down to half again and then limped it home.

So what does everyone think the problem is? thermostat? dodgy viscous fan not locking up when it gets hot?

There seemed to be plenty of water in the radiatior when i got home.

Any help would be kick a$$

84 surf (2L diesel handgrenade)

MULLET

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:43 pm

Is the rad blocked? Externally?

VERY hard to say without seeing the wagon.

gomulletgo · Post by **gomulletgo** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:05 am

Radiator is clean as a whistle.

Elmo and I thought it was odd that the truck did not heat up on the return trip yesterday.......so I took it for another drive (as instructed by elmo) and the problem did not present again. Even when i tried to warm it up (hill climbs, wheelspin etc.) The needle just sat at half way on the gauge where it always does.

Maybe it's a dodgy thermostat? I'll take it for another run today, might pick up a new thermostat and gasket sealer just incase that is it?

MULLET

monaro427 · Post by **monaro427** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:07 pm

hey mullet monaro427 here if you want that starter motor you can have it

for free just call 0272889783, otherwise it is just going to the dump, as moving up north don't need it

Toymotor No Go :(

Yea Petemcc