xmas day gearbox worries

[new2zukes]

hi all had a bit of a trouble with my nissan terrano manual gearbox today, it decided to let go of all the gears but 4th. it has stuffed out on me 4 times in the last 4 years now and I'm a little sick of it. was wondering if a nissan safari gearbox would fit into my truck with a little less worry that it will break down every year. i am getting quicker at taking the gearbox out now it only takes a day now if anyone else could give me a little more info about the gearboxes that would be great thanks.

martin

[cowman]

how much oil do you put in it? aparently they need a full 5 litres but you need to take off the gear shifter to fill it

[zukmeista]

When they have let go have you bought second-hand ones or rebuilt? My old man has a turbo'd Navara, it's done 460,000km's now and tows heaps of heavy stuff being a work ute, gearbox shat itself at about 300,000 kms, was replaced with a rebuilt one and has been fine since.

[new2zukes]

all the gearboxes are rebuilt boxes i fill up with oil on services as needed there is a bung on the left side of the gearbox. the last 3 gearboxes that have failed were bearings that collapsed but this one is a lot worse as i have no drive at all in 1,2,3,5 gears it is just like I'm revving the engine with the clutch in. i haven't put it in the shed for a look as I'm at my parents for xmas but in the next few days i will check oil levels and perhaps drain the oil. i also had a transfer case problem about a year ago and that made some horrible noises so pulled that out and found a bit of plate that goes behind one of the gears had sheered off and was rattling around, but thats a different story.

[zukmeista]

In that case have you rebuilt them yourself? Or bought a recond one?

[Crash bandicoot]

sounds like the shafts are not getting enough oil.

[new2zukes]

have taken them to a local recon guy he is well known up here for his good work, so can't really blame a guy that has a good reputation. will check oils in the next few days and see what they are like, the truck was due for another service very soon.

[zukmeista]

I'm not knocking his work or anything, but 4 gearboxes in 4 years is a bit much I would have thought? It's not as if you've got a V8 in it or anything. Maybe it's to do with the amount of oil, might need more than what you've been putting in?

[lax2wlg]

Yeah Nissan released a service bulletin in the 90s, the original oil capacity leads to oil starvation and premature failure. If you fill it from the side it will only take 3.5 litres, but it MUST have 5.1 litres! Easiest is by removing gearstick.

Also Gearbox MUST run on GL4 fluid, which is far less common but still available. Apparently GL5 has additives and detergents which eat synchronizing rings and wear out bearings easily.

[passengerpete]

hi all had a bit of a trouble with my nissan terrano manual gearbox today, it decided to let go of all the gears but 4th. it has stuffed out on me 4 times in the last 4 years now and I'm a little sick of it. was wondering if a nissan safari gearbox would fit into my truck with a little less worry that it will break down every year. i am getting quicker at taking the gearbox out now it only takes a day now if anyone else could give me a little more info about the gearboxes that would be great thanks.

martin

i got a safari gearbox in my terrano works great but kinder overkill, not a easy swoop lot of body mods, ya best bet would be the terrano r50 gearbox as it will bolt in with the right bits.

[zukmeista]

Sounds like you've found the problem, easiest way to fill it is through the gearstick hole. Once you have a new gearbox of course.

[new2zukes]

Yeah Nissan released a service bulletin in the 90s, the original oil capacity leads to oil starvation and premature failure. If you fill it from the side it will only take 3.5 litres, but it MUST have 5.1 litres! Easiest is by removing gearstick.

Also Gearbox MUST run on GL4 fluid, which is far less common but still available. Apparently GL5 has additives and detergents which eat synchronizing rings and wear out bearings easily.

thanks for this info its very interesting, the only thing is i have had a 1996 gearbox put in with the syncro reverse gear in and I've found another article that says its from models up to 1995, not too sure if it still means the gearbox filler hole is in the wrong place but when i drain the oil in a few days i will know. I'm surprised the gearbox rebuilder didn't tell me this as he seems to be a knowledgeable guy. will have to have a little talk to him about it. thanks again.

martin

[lax2wlg]

Hmmm I don't know much about the r50... Yep you are right on the dates, below is the link to the official tsb

http://www.wightman-crane.com/madkiwi/TSB97-009A.pdf

[Dirtydog]

just swap it for an auto, sounds like way less hassle lol.

i dont know much about the manuals, but i know most nissan autos are interchangeable.

[new2zukes]

just swap it for an auto, sounds like way less hassle lol.

i dont know much about the manuals, but i know most nissan autos are interchangeable.

my dad has an auto terrano and i hate driving it so not sure an auto would be a good idea. but i know what your saying it would be a lot more reliable but now i know about the oil starvation it should stop the problem ive been having.
when i went to winch my truck into the shed yesterday i put it in reverse even though i know it wouldn't work and it went into gear!! so went 4 a drive up the road about 3km and went threw all the gears no worries then it suddenly crapped out again so went back home and winched it into the shed and started taking it out. pulled the oil and there wasn't 5.1l in there but the oil was full up to the filler hole. there was fine shavings of metal in the box and the oil was a light black color. should have the box completely out by the end of the day. thanks all for your inputs

martin

[lax2wlg]

Wow thats strange, maybe those filings were bits of countershaft?!

So assuming the box is pre April 1996, and the oil was filled right up to the fill plug, it should only be 3.6l, the trick w overfilling is to either park it on an angle or remove the gear shifter, leave the fill plug in and dump in 5.1l from above.

I have only ever had manual D21s but I hear The autos in these things are known to fail prematurely too, the factory fluid cooler gets clogged up and leads to overheating. Most people install aftermarket cooler and new lines to solve this.

[hamboy]

I was having a chat with the local 4wd guru recently, he said that the older manuals were notorious for lunching themselves when you try to put anything more than the factory amount of power thru them.
He rekoned the box out of the v6 d21's and the later model td27s had stronger bearings and a single piece countershaft.
Not sure how easy they are to get hold of, but it might be worth a look.

[new2zukes]

i have spoken to the guy that rebuilds the gearboxes and im guna get him too have a look and rebuild if possible. when you turn the input shaft on the gearbox it feels horrible then it gets to a curtain point and it jams so there is something seriously wrong. luckily a m8 of mine has lent me his navara ute to drive till mine gets fixed. hope i done have any gearbox issues with that one. not sure when the gearbox will be sorted by but im supposed to go back to work on the 7th so hope it is b4 then.
just another quick question, to put the gearbox back in is it easyer to drop the torsion bars out of the way or leave them connected, to get the box out i have put a 2 inch block under the x member to get it low enough to get the box out (it was a prick to leaver it out on my own). i know ive done it 4 times now but thought id ask some other people their preferences.
cheers
martin

[meatc]

Hey man. sucks about your Gbox. When I did mine (few years ago now) I dropped the x member and took it off the torsion bars. You can then pull the torsion bars out of the way (tie them to chassis). The guy at haruru rebuilt mine the second time round and it was mint after that.

Will be up your way on weekend, will try catch up if you are around.

[new2zukes]

ye m8 il be around will be good to catch up. might jump in the shed again tomorrow and pull the torsion bars. guy in haruru falls has done all my gearboxes but i guess im just not lucky with gearboxes hahaha

[wax]

The gearbox is a non weak point. Put in a mistral manual gearbox its the bigger box.
Nissan has two gearboxes they use. There is the one they use behind 4 cylinder turbo engines and the ones they use behind the 6 cylinder turbo engines( not the rb20)

its non as the silvia box or the skyline box.

they also do this with the diesels. the terrano has the small box the d22 and the mistral have the big box. put that in and the job is done. There was one for sale on eBay in Australia for 150 dollars they are cheap. I also know of another ones coming up for sale in Australia but its not going to be cheap.

[new2zukes]

those boxes are longer than the terrano boxes though arnt they? just read your build thread, so that means shortening and lengthening driveshafts and different x member. seems alot of work to do to get the truck back on the road.

[wax]

No it just went straight in with the stock driveshafts. I thought I was going to have to make them longer but its working no issues at all. If your worried its a good time to lift it 2 inches and get rid of any issues

[lax2wlg]

The gearbox is a non weak point. Put in a mistral manual gearbox its the bigger box.
Nissan has two gearboxes they use. There is the one they use behind 4 cylinder turbo engines and the ones they use behind the 6 cylinder turbo engines( not the rb20)

its non as the silvia box or the skyline box.

they also do this with the diesels. the terrano has the small box the d22 and the mistral have the big box. put that in and the job is done. There was one for sale on eBay in Australia for 150 dollars they are cheap. I also know of another ones coming up for sale in Australia but its not going to be cheap.

Great tip about the mistral box. What about the V6 D21 manual box? Is it the same internals as the td27 one?

[wax]

the v6 gearbox has the same internals as the big box. its the same box they use behind the mighty gtr skyline.
you could actually change the bellhousing and make td27 powered gtr. Not sure why you would but you could.
Nissan really has two types of boxes they use in passenger cars and light 4wd,s
the nissan 300zx. skyline, gtr, mystral, rd28 patrol, v6 terrano, r50 pathfinder, etc all run the big box in them with small changes to suit the engine. they also run slightly different ratios depending on the style of engine

[new2zukes]

i have been finding more problems as i go to take more and more bits of my motor, think the rear main seal has been leaking for a while now but there is so much oil in the engine bay its hard to tell so i am getting a little more into it may also be rocker cover, so far turbo is off inlet manifold is off clutch and flywheel is off and now i see coolant fluid towards the back of the motor. the coolant level had been dropping just recently i am thinking it may have something to do with lots of oil degrading my heater hose as its the only place i can see that it may have come from. all the frost plugs look mint doesnt look as if it would be coming from the head gasket. is there any other oil leaks that are prone in a terrano? because the gearbox and half the engine is apart so i may aswell try and fix it.

martin

[new2zukes]

Hmmm I don't know much about the r50... Yep you are right on the dates, below is the link to the official tsb

http://www.wightman-crane.com/madkiwi/TSB97-009A.pdf

have spoken to the gearbox rebuilder and he pointed out that the gearbox in mention in that article is an fs5r30a and they only came out in the v6 engines, so that doesnt mean that the filler is in the wrong place in mine. please correct me if im wrong here but it sounds as if was just the v6s.

[Dirtydog]

well if anything the v6 terranos have stronger transfer cases...

terrano autos are pretty darn cheap, lots of people convert to manual, so you should be able to find one.

ive never had any problem with mine so who knows maybe you will get lucky.

[lax2wlg]

Hmmm I don't know much about the r50... Yep you are right on the dates, below is the link to the official tsb

http://www.wightman-crane.com/madkiwi/TSB97-009A.pdf

have spoken to the gearbox rebuilder and he pointed out that the gearbox in mention in that article is an fs5r30a and they only came out in the v6 engines, so that doesnt mean that the filler is in the wrong place in mine. please correct me if im wrong here but it sounds as if was just the v6s.

VERY good point, I overlooked that completely. Did some more looking into it, looks like another TSB was issued for the FS5W71C - details are below, also a link if you want to purchase the TSB ($12 US or something)

The TSB was issued for the US Domestic Market, not sure if that makes a difference...

When my one eventually grenades I think I will go the wax route and put the misty box in, apparently Z Cars run those w/ 500+hp





--- QUOTE ---
1986.5-1996 4WD TRUCK FS5W71C MANUAL TRANSMISSION WHINE NOISE ON ACCELERATION

The amended version of NTB97-018a updates information in the Applied Vehicle, Service Procedure and Parts information sections. Please discard previous copies of NTB97-018 and NTB97-018a.

APPLIED VEHICLE(S): 1986.5-1996 Truck (D21/KA24E, Z24I eng.) 4WD only
APPLIED VIN(S): All vehicles built before 1N6SD11S8VC327106
APPLIED DATE(S): All vehicles built before October 15, 1996
APPLIED TRANSMISSION #(S): FS5W71C-006

SERVICE INFORMATION
If a FS5W71C transmission exhibits a whine noise while driving in all forward gears except 4th, the cause may be lack of lubrication to the main and counter drive gears on acceleration and/or climbing. The whine noise is more pronounced in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gears at slow speeds.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
[Transmission rebuilding info skipped]

Note the following changes to the transmission case and fluid levels:
- The transmission oil level is increased from 4.0l to 4.9l +/-0.1l (4.2qt to 5.2qt +/-0.1qt) to prevent lack of lubrication when climbing hills
- The oil filler plug is relocated to compensate for the increased oil level.

[Parts and claims tables skipped]
--- UNQUOTE ---

[lax2wlg]

Also heres the factory service manual from 1992 showing oil capacities for each gearbox - 4 litres for the FS5W71C and 3.6 litres for the FS5R30A. This is consistent with the TSBs that came a couple of years later, advising to increase capacity by 0.9 and 1.5l respectively.