PTO winch question

[popgun]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and not much 'older' in terms of 4wding.

About a year ago I was given a 85 SD33 after a mate moved to Oz and couldn't bear to see the old girl sitting idle! She's had no mods and aside from a snorkel she's straight off the shelf.

I use the truck for carting the mutt and hunting, a little boulder hopping and river crossing is as serious as it gets... which leads me to this post!

I got stuck in the most innocuous shit of a creek on the weekend. I was unprepared in terms of recovery gear so luckily a 2 hour walk out found a chap with a cruiser that gave me a tow.

We used the winch rope to tow which was sweet BUT I bloody near pulled the hook through the fairlead when the pto wouldn't click out of gear and the only way I could stop it was by killing the engine.

Even to a muppet like me this isn't right, so I was wondering:
1. If anyone could tell me if this was a tell tale sign of something being buggered or needing a quick fix? and

2. Should you be looking to winch and drive at the same time or are the PTO's built to do all the work themselves?

I'd appreciate any advice.

Cheers.

[muddy]

When you engage the PTO - you then control it with the clutch, and speed with the throttle. Put your foot on the clutch and it should stop turning. Then disengage the PTO lever and return to normal driving. I'd suggest you run out quite a bit of cable and attach it to something solid, then pull a couple of notches on the park brake and winch the truck forward with the winch under load. Play with the controls until you're confident you understand how everything works. This is also the best way to spool the cable on the drum - get someone else to guide the cable on neatly - but standing well away from the winch and using leather gloves.

On a safety note:
1. These things are VERY powerful and can be VERY dangerous. Wire cable can snag your hand, glove, or clothing and drag it into the drum, hence keep well away from the winch when touching the cable, and in sight of the driver/winch operator.
2. ALWAYS use a cable dampener. Thuis can be anything with a bit of weight draped over the cable to soak up any tension if the cable breaks. And the winch WILL be powerful enough to generate a LOT of tension and break the cable.
3. You should also invest in a tree protector - a wide webbing strop to prevent damage to trees - but get a proper one with appropriate ratings so it doesn't stretch or break and create a slingshot.
4. Find someone (a 4WD Club is a good start) who has some winching experience - and get them to give you some coaching.
5. Don't tow on a winch cable - not what it's designed for and you can damage the winch pretty easily with shock loadings, or over-stress the cable and turn it into a steel whip...

There's probably a fair bit more others will add....

[popgun]

Thanks muddy, I appreciate the safety notes.

On the winch side of things: driving on and off fine, clutch disengages and throttle speeds it up... The problem I am having is if I put the clutch in and put the winch in neutral it's still driving when I let the clutch out and/or put the truck in gear.

[muddy]

If you mean releasing the free-spool but still with the PTO lever engaged - this will still cause the winch to turn due to the oil circulation and drag within the winch - but it shouldn't take too much load to stop it. It's probably worthwhile draining and replacing the oil - that's likely the problem...

To answer your other earlier question about driving the wheels while winching - it depends on the situation. In mud or on greasy hills I usually drive the wheels as well, but on rocky surfaces or where you're likely to suddenly gain or lose traction, it's best to "dead-winch" so as not to risk shock-loading the winch.

Also - if at all possible, try to have someone watching the drum while you're winching. If the cable starts building up on side of the drum, it can either roll off the end of the drum or start binding on the cross-member. Then you need to stop winching, unspool and respool the cable evenly on the drum before continuing. Also, especially with steel cable, if you ain traction and cable loses tension, you can get loops in cable which can be very hard to unspool.

[popgun]

Here's the process mate:
Sitting in truck, out of gear, winch 'locked' and winding winch rope on. When hook gets close to fairlead, put clutch in, put winch lever into neutral to disengage winch, let clutch out (whether in 1st gear or not)... winch continues to drive rope onto drum.

[muddy]

Okay - something in the PTO selector then... Check the linkages - it's obviously not disengaging properly at the gearbox... Try pulling the lever through to the reverse / unwind position then back to neutral. See if it works better that way?

[mudtroll]

Got the same problem on mine, probably need to remove & lube selector cable, filled with 20 years of mud.

[LOLYF]

Got the same problem on mine, probably need to remove & lube selector cable, filled with 20 years of mud.

I'm sure Waitawheta had nothing to do with it

[mudtroll]

Got the same problem on mine, probably need to remove & lube selector cable, filled with 20 years of mud.

I'm sure Waitawheta had nothing to do with it

Waitawheta mud just filled up all the other bits, like the alternator, windscreen wipers, doors & the complete interior!

[Hamz]

uhh, i hate it when you get mud all in the interior, even worse when all the mud goes up into the doors because some smart person thought it would be a good idea to take the mud guards out of a 4wd!

yeah mate, sounds like the selector is not pushing the drive into neutral, I would gut under there and see where the lever is at when you have it in neutral. make sure the cable isn't broken etc

[popgun]

Cheers guys, I'll have a gander.

[XJCrawler]

This is what happens if your spotter is blind, the person you are recovering from the kindness of your heart is an idiot not pointing his truck directly towards the winch i.e. driving left, right all over the show AND you don't check thoroughly from a to b when your cable goes taught.

Cable wrapped round outer casting, went taught. Spotter doesn't check what's happened, and says no issues, continue winching cable went taught again and ripped both casting mounts. - Think this deserves a capital D for dangerous.. If that cable snapped, I'd hate to think what the clean up would've been.

Photos.. - Insurance covered, $6500.00 later, $4500 winch + $2000 bar/grill repairs.

[kbushnz]

Wow what a mess...Glad you got it sorted...

[charo249]

Agree with always having a spotter when winching with these PTO's as when winching at an angle from the truck it is quite easy for the cable to come off the side of the drum and is a big job to get it back on. 90% of the time you should be able to winch with your truck in neutral as a PTO has a lot more pull than your average electric winch. I find having the wheels turning only robs the winch of horsepower and is also quite hard on your clutch and if you are that badly stuck you usually are about to break something i,e winch fair lead, front leaf springs etc. The clutch should stop the winch as the PTO comes out of the gear box - so no drive to your gearbox means no drive to your winch (although theoretically if you were rolling down a hill with the winch in gear but your clutch disengaged the winch could turn). If your winch is still turning with the winch selector in neutral and the clutch engaged I would suggest there is a problem with the linkage.

[coxsy]

when first run the pto and drive, gear lever would load up and wouldn't move, but no help from the axles shearpin would pop,then after awhile winch and drive with first gear is easy, and less load on the winch