2LT surf manifold vs. 2LT hiace supercustom manifold

[ajthompson]

Hi guys.
I'm starting a bit of a project on my van.
Its a 4wd hiace 1992 with hi-lo ratio and locking hubs, and it recently cracked its head
so I'm taking the old smokey 3L out of it and i've now got a 5L to replace it.

heres the tricky bit... im turning the 5L into a 5L-T.
so i borrowed a surf CT20 turbo and manifold to see how it bolts up, which i does, except its sitting way too high.
the way the turbo is sitting means i cant replace the inspection panel under the drivers seat. It could still be possible, but would require some serious modification of the inspection panel and seat rails.

long story short, heres my question:

does the manifold on the hiace 2LT make the turbo sit lower, and/ or is the inspection panel on an early super custom of a different shape to mine?

any help would be greatly appreciated!

[tweake]

the only turbo hiaces i've come across is 2lt(1) (so different turbo and manifold) or 1kz. i don't think 2lt(2) was in the hiaces.

[Cameron]

the old square shape supercustom hiaces sometimes had 2l-t (pretty sure ALL the diesel ones were)
this shape.

[tweake]

yeah its the old late 80's? ones that had 2lt but i think that age its the wrong 2lt. may pay to check in case the last of them went to 2lt(2). toyota did some interchanging in the cross over years. ie some late 80 early 90 surfs came with 2lt(1) or 2lt(2).

[tweake]

did a bit of looking through part manuals.
no japan listing for a hiace with 2lt(2) but there is a euro version. however i do not think that will help as it looks like it has same cross over pipe etc as surf 2lt ie turbo is in the same position. it may have different body work, i havn't checked that far.
edit: did a quick check, that euro hiace is actually a people mover that has a completely different body shape so thats no use to you.

sorry looks like no hiace version of a turbo manifold. you might have to make one or change the panels/seat.

[ajthompson]

Thanks for the info guys!

so whats the difference in 2LT(1) and 2LT(2)? are they different blocks?

also i forgot to mention i'll be making an adapter plate to fit a T3 turbo instead of the CT20 so doesn't matter too much about which turbo fits. more what matters is if the manifold will bolt to my block and if will sit low enough

i had a 1993 supercustom years ago that had a that im pretty sure had 2LTE because it defiantly wasn't a 1kz. same body shape as mine.

[Cameron]

sounds like itd be easier to get make one from scratch, least then you get the mounting position you need, and can do away with the factory pitfalls.

[tweake]

Thanks for the info guys!

so whats the difference in 2LT(1) and 2LT(2)? are they different blocks?

also i forgot to mention i'll be making an adapter plate to fit a T3 turbo instead of the CT20 so doesn't matter too much about which turbo fits. more what matters is if the manifold will bolt to my block and if will sit low enough

different heads, manifolds and turbo.

but if your going to fit a T3 don't bother with stock manifold. better to make one to suit.

[Will]

Personally i would keep the ct20..
you would be amazed what it can do coupled to a 5L.. Just keep the boost below 17 psi.. That's where the CT20 looses its game..

[ajthompson]

so i had some luck today. after alot of hunting around, and i mean A LOT, i finally found a guy with a 2LTE from a 1991 super custom! woohoo!
the manifold bolts up to my block and faces the turbo downward rather than up on the surf, and ive got a mates blown CT20 from a surf bolted up.
it fits in there really nicely exactly where i want it! but i would need to just clock the compressor housing a little if i use a surf one.

I do know that a custom made manifold would be ideal, but this is defiantly the easiest option for now at least.

as far as the turbo goes, the CT20 could still be a contender, but..

the stock wastegate actuator is set to 9 psi. meaning that this should be the centre of its optimum range of efficiency. and from what ive heard, is not intended to be used above 11-12 psi.

t3 is the same size compressor housing, so will spool up just as fast, but has a larger sweet spot, so will handle more boost adjustment.

any thoughts?

[Will]

you need to think how much boost you ultimately want to run..
In personal experience ive seen a CT20 up to 17psi and thats when its temps start getting out of control 110deg+

look at a few compressor maps and make you decision based on that..
Holset make some turbos that enjoy high pressure ratios.. look there.

A CT12b might also be an option if you want to run ~14psi..

[tweake]

so i had some luck today. after alot of hunting around, and i mean A LOT, i finally found a guy with a 2LTE from a 1991 super custom! woohoo!

now that i want some pics of !

ct20 is fine 12psi but 15psi you will need an IC.

t3.....well theres tons of different t3's. depends on the setup.

[Will]

ct20 is fine 12psi but 15psi you will need an IC.

Really an intercooler should be used all times..

[ajthompson]

Heres a pic of the manifold bolted up to my old 3L block. only a couple of bolts holding it on the photo, but all the bolts line up *(as long as you move one of the centre studs.)

Yea i think an intercooler would be a good idea, but pretty hard on a hiace :-S. Ill see how i go..

so im thinking now that i will go the ct20 route.

ive got a mates turbo that needs a recon, so i think ill get it done, and upgrade the compressor wheel at the same time, so its suited more to the 3 litre rather than the 2.4 it was made for. more expensive than a cheap T3, but it will be a far better turbo!!

I was talking to a turbo reconditioner who says he remembers doing exactly that with a TD05H compressor wheel from a WRX, but he is going to get back to me.

anybody else know of a compressor wheel that will fit?

[ajthompson]

ok, heres the pic...

[ajthompson]

intercooler:

i put the radiator back in and had a measure. basically theres only 2" of space on the intake side and maybe 2 an 1/2" on the turbo side. that would lead to into around a max front mount size of 600x200
might be a tad restricting, but i think i could just reduce the pipe size on the intake side only where the radiator is, then go back out to 2 and 1/2"

any thoughts?

[tweake]

turbo looks like its a Chinese one.

your lucky to have 2" gap between radiator. i think my old hiace had 1" if your lucky. if the gap is quiet long you might be able to just squish the pipe ie make it oval pipe.
water/air IC might be the best way.

thanks for the pic. never seen one of them before.

[crazyclark31]

What size is the intake manifold hole? From memory its around the 50-60mm dia.
Basically you want the pipe to be the same size as it helps keep the pressure loss and lag down. Also maybe a tdo4 would fit better/be a better size. Also cheap to rebuild.
Also wrap the shit outa the pipe as they get rather warm under there

[tweake]

manifold inlet is 2.25". tho easy enough to grind it out to 2.5".
i have a thread with pics of the flange for the manifold so you can get rid of inlet butterfly setup.

[ajthompson]

thanks! manifold turbo flange is square 52x56mm so 2" around the radiator hopefully shouldnt restrict too much.
this manifold doesnt have the butterfly like the surf one does. win!

hopefully turbos not a chinese one :-s i did find it weird that it just says "toyota B" rather that "toyota CT20"...

[tweake]

no idea what your talking about the square exhaust manifold size.

turbo outlet is 2"(?)so 2" to the IC but you will want at least 2.25" from IC to inlet manifold. however 2.25" pipe is a bit of an odd size. 2.5" is common but you will need to grind out the inlet manifold a little bit.

the turbo doesn't have stock v band in the centre of the turbo, it the one commonly found on the Chinese one. the waste gate (what i can see of it) looks like Chinese. on the plus side the china ones are adjustable.

[tweake]

[ajthompson]

nice!

heres some pics off the turbo. let me know what you reckon.
i was going to send it off to a guy in Wellington to rebuild. but definatly wont be worth it if its chinese.

oh and sorry your pics made it clear, i thought you were talking turbo inlet size, was reading too fast.. defiantly will grind it out!

[ajthompson]

had a turbo rebuilder look at it and confirm its a genuine toyota turbo!
so getting it rebuilt with a upgraded compressor

[tweake]

something doesn't look right.
its not a 2lte turbo. might be 2lt turbo or possibly a ct20b (off petrol engine)

2lte turbo has cast 2 part v clamp for the turbo halves and different waste gate actuator bracket, tho both could have been changed at some point. they have ct20 cast on the compressor housing and an A by the turbo outlet.
but the big one is the different compressor snail design and, i can't quite tell, but yours looks like it doesn't have water cooling.

the other issue is the two halves of the turbo have a locating pin, so you may have trouble rotating the centre housing to get the oil drain in the right position with that manifold.

it may be a genuine turbo but off what ?

[tweake]

just googling around, it looks like the compressor side is off a petrol ct20b.
no idea what that will run like tho i would rather use a water cooled centre.

[ajthompson]

according to the cast numbers on the turbine side its off an early 2LT surf. and is water cooled. theres actually two water flanges and one oil. you can see right through from one water flange to the other.
i had heard that the compressor housings without "ct20" cast in came out in more modern vehicles but the "b" probly does mean its a ct20b. It defiantly looks newer than the rest, so its poss it was retro-fitted.
for my purpose it wont matter tho because im having it machined out to fit a lager compressor

[tweake]

i would hold off the machining for a bit.
see how it goes first. that compressor may be a good match with the 5l.
it might be worth while checking what turbine its got in case it has the ceramic (weak) turbine.

great that its the water cooled centre. only problem is getting the centre around the right way.

edit: don't forget that different housing may not fit the new compressor.

[ajthompson]

its been sitting too long and wont turn, well not easily anyway.
so needs a re-con either way. they reconditioner is going to take it apart and get back to me anyway.
the machining is getting done to shape it to a suitable larger garret wheel so will be as perfect fit as ever

hopefully it is clockable to, because it needs to be clocked.. guess ill find out soon

[tweake]

yeah but the garret wheel might not fit as its not a ct20a housing. also it may not be even needed.

whats clockable/clocked mean ?