Hill Climbing with Chains ?

[Trucked off]

Hi Guys,
I have a lifestyle block with a steep hill at the back which I use to dump my green waste , its got a zig zag track up it that I can get my Datsun 720 4x4 up,
but I find coming down Hazadous, due to overgrown grass on the track, the ute tends to slide somewhat
I have new MT tyres on it but still no good.
So I was wondering would a set of chains work ?
I am not sure whether having a load on going up (a couple of places going up a bit slippery) and coming down empty would make any differance if chains were a goer
its a single cab with long deck so I can get quite a bit on it (weight wise).

or any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

[MikeL200]

Check your tyre pressure, possibly lower down to 24 psi?
Use your engine for braking rather than just brakes.

[Trucked off]

Check your tyre pressure, possibly lower down to 24 psi?
Use your engine for braking rather than just brakes.

Cheers Mike
I have not tried lowering the tyre pressure yet due to load on going up, but thinking about it
yup even in lowest low gear , engine braking and no foot brake, the truck just slides across the grass, ground is hard so tyres not digging in
grass is the long stalky native type

[ActyonMan]

cut or graze the grass

[mudlva]

chains will throw you sideways
engine breaking and softer tyres would be way safer

[DaveM]

As said, short grass may help....

[crazyclark31]

Trick is to stop the wheels from sliding. Maybe accelerating to get grip then engine brake to slow down. Chains will give more grip but if they slip you will go sideways off the track.
Is there gravel under the grass?

[tweake]

low tire pressure and good tires. grass can be embarrassingly slippery.
the other thing is weight. that may be a big problem coming back down unloaded.

[Trucked off]

Thanks guys
ok so chains are no go as going sideways will send me rolling sideways down the hill
no gravel under grass its a kinda clay and shale rock type combo
can get muddy in winter and goes very hard in summer

so I will have to try and get some water and stock up there then.

many thanks

[Suza]

If you do go with chains use diamond pattern ones on then front and don't get light weight ones go heavy. Ladder chains give great traction but have limited steering ability and as said if you do slide sideways they will shoot you sideways.
As also said drop your tyre pressure and stay away from your brakes. When you lower the pressure you increase the footprint of the tyre - which gives you more contact area and therefore more traction

[drive it ...]

Heavy ladder bar chains still let you slide sideways as the tyre rotates between bars. The lighter diamond pattern chains have not got as much depth of bite so are less effective in mud or soft snow. BUT, the diamond pattern gives a continuous contact of chain on the ground so they are better in ice or hard compacted snow.
Either type of chains should be better than a MT tyre on greasy grass if the base is too hard for the pattern to bite down.

[00falcon]

I have an auto, so no real engine braking....

I have tried with moderate success, left foot breaking.

So you are driving against the brake not the ground.
You can get steady and smooth moment to the ground.

The left foot thing is tricky... But I hope it will come given time

[T-Boon]

Could digging some ruts help, if the dirt is that dry they shouldnt wash/wear out too much?

[tallsam66]

When ya wheels lock up you need to accelerate a little to get ya wheels turning faster , ya cant effectivily steer if ya wheel speed isnt matching ya vehicle speed.

[Trucked off]

Could digging some ruts help, if the dirt is that dry they shouldnt wash/wear out too much?

thats another option, but in heavy rain it might gouge out more due to water tracking
thinking maybe I just spray the grass where wheel tracks are , but then still at risk of water gouging as no roots to bind the dirt

[Trucked off]

When ya wheels lock up you need to accelerate a little to get ya wheels turning faster , ya cant effectivily steer if ya wheel speed isnt matching ya vehicle speed.

Thats true but kinda hard as its not a straight line and I could end up going to fast downhill

[tallsam66]

youll find you actually slow down not speed up & you have control as you now got steering.

When ya wheels lock up you need to accelerate a little to get ya wheels turning faster , ya cant effectivily steer if ya wheel speed isnt matching ya vehicle speed.

Thats true but kinda hard as its not a straight line and I could end up going to fast downhill

[DaveM]

The old farm tracks we used were always slippery when there was long grass. As soon as it was cut, there was plenty of traction (as long as you don't leave the cuttings on the tracks....).
Maybe try a few different things, just driving up without a load, and back down? How about lowering the pressure in the front tyres a little? The weight will be over the back when driving up, so shouldn't be a problem for carrying weight, but should improve traction on the way back down the hill? Maybe lightly trim the grass?

[Tarmac]

Gravel the corners, bank them, roundup the grass?? Just ideas no real knowledge.

Went out to the head of a bay over the back of bank penisular with a mate -you'd be lucky to bounce twice if you skidded off the track before a big ass splash... I kept going "I'll just hop out and shift that rock over there" steep hills and sliding is indeed sketchy

[callum007]

Personally if you try everything else to no avail, Id go chains any day of the week. I've never had a truck let go sideways with chains on (heavy icebreakers) and if the track was slippery they would be my first option every time.
Try airing down, I'd go to 12-15 with no concerns.. I run 5-8 with no issues quite often

[kiwipete]

If you do go for chains, use them on the back going up and on the front going down, unless you have two sets of them. Practice on an area where you cannot get into trouble first, a gentle rise with clear space?

What part of the country are you in, maybe someone can give you some assistance?

[DaveM]

And make sure you get the right size chains, and fit them correctly.

[Macca]

Just be carefull with that chain orientation. we use them for work a bit in similar situations and there is nothing worse than having the truck swing round so front is facing uphill again with them on the front coming down, I know it gives a lot better grip and do it myself but be aware it is not the advised use for them. They should be on the uphill tyre, ie fronts going up rears coming down. This does cause a little loss of efficiency but isnt much. as other have stated pressure is key without chains.

[mudlva]

Just be carefull with that chain orientation. we use them for work a bit in similar situations and there is nothing worse than having the truck swing round so front is facing uphill again with them on the front coming down, I know it gives a lot better grip and do it myself but be aware it is not the advised use for them. They should be on the uphill tyre, ie fronts going up rears coming down. This does cause a little loss of efficiency but isnt much. as other have stated pressure is key without chains.

interesting, and once you start thinking about the theory it sort of adds up, traction on the high side allowing the lower wheels to follow, altho it would be even more reason to allow engine breaking, not using the peddle as this will lock the front on decent possibly creating the front wheels to lock up and slide. having said that a little acceleration will get the front turning again.

worth remembering..

[Trucked off]

Thanks Guys
what a great forum you guys make, plenty of ideas without the friction found in some forums

Macca, Thats great advice as my tracks narrow and long wheel base , so if the ute swung around, thats me rolling the truck all the way to the bottom.

I will try dropping the trye presure first, but not sure how much I can go with a load on but I feel perhaps chains might give me that extra ring of confidance

so I will look into getting a pair of heavy diamond pattern chains of the correct size, and keep them on the uphill tryes.
I feel confident now, that it will make the differance. as I have been up there quite a few times after clearing the scrub off the exisiting old track. but once the grass sprung up the last couple of trips proved to be a bit past the saftey margin, so I stopped going up there , just need that little bit extra grip

kiwipete, I'm in Nelson. Thanks for the thought , but I should be ok

will let you all know how I get on but it might be a week or two

[NJV6]

I do alot of hill climbing with chains, in the winter they are always on my tyres.

1stly, Are you going to be using them any other times or just going up the hill?
If not then chains are expensive so go and buy some cheap ones, doesn't matter if they are diamond or ladder, so long as they cheap.

If you are going to be using them off road then I wouldn't bother with diamond pattern. They are simply not very good when for the same price ladder chains are better. Ladder chains are terrible on a hard surface, like an icy road as they shake the living crap out of everything but they still are widely used on ski fields as the traction is better.

If using chains, don't let your tyres down, leave them as road pressure, the chains press into the tyre if let down and this somewhat negates their effect.

The front wheels vs rear wheels debate has been going for years, I almost always put on 4 chains but if one set, I put them on the rear for climbing as on the front you still have to get towed up, they are useless. Downhill, better on the front no doubt. So thats why I just put on 4! Directional stability on side slopes, never had any trouble, biggest problem is people go very slowly or keep touching the brakes so you go sideways as quick as you go forwards.
Then with 4 chains you can push the limits....


And one showing chains on sidlings half way though, double cab hilux with 4 chains on, safari with front chains on.

[lax2wlg]

That K5 Blazer makes the Safari look tiny!

Left foot braking can give the transfer chain a hiding, pretty sure Dat720 has the same TX10.