Welding front diff - with auto hubs

[doo0Tdoo0T]

Ok, as title states I'm interested in hearing peoples thoughts on welding up a front diff for my mitsi.

It's an L300 4x4 and has a tight rear LSD however I've already noticed in the short amount of offroading I've done in it that it could do with a front diff lock.

Front diffs in the L300 are smaller than the rear and no one seems to make a locker to fit. Certainly not an OEM fitment.
It can be done by adapting a Pajero 8" diff into the front and using a rear L300 crownwheel and pinion then installing a Pajero or L200 locker.
I cant afford an air locker and compressor etc so that is out of the question.

So I got thinking about welding the front one up. I only ever have the van in 4wd in off road situations, there is no centre diff so it cant be driven on the tarmac in 4 anyway.

In theory, when in 2wd mode the front hubs are disengaged and therefore free wheeling. The front axels and diff will be static while driving and so therefore will not be exposed to any unusual loading, binding, winding etc that a welded diff on the road can produce.

When I'm off road and in rough or steep enough terrain to necessitate 4wd then having a welded front diff should be absolutely no different to having an air locker.

Only that it would be always locked (when in 4wd).

Has anyone on here done this or have any comments for or against?

Just to clarify, buying an air locker is out of the question and I dont mind buying a spare front diff so I can go back again.

[Dirtydog]

before you go welding up your front diff go and get a spare one, just incase you change your mind (or it breaks then youll have a spare)

it will increase the wear on everything, and you will find when in 4wd it would rather go straight forward in any situation.

good for going up hills, getting out of mud etc, till your on a track with heaps of bends which can be dangerous.

by all means it will provide better traction than an open diff, but there is a reason that that air lockers are preferred.


If you are going to weld it yourself make sure you get the parts completely clean, and cover the ring gear with something so it doesnt get damaged by splatter etc.

and the hotter the better.

[lax2wlg]

Did it once to a Series 3 Land Rover during teenage years, personally never ever again.

Really takes the fun out of off-roading, constantly fighting the steering. Plus that is a lot of traction, all the time. When you need to use the fun pedal its nice for the wheels to follow the path of least resistance.

What about a LOKKA Aussie locker? You can order them online for $400US.

[doo0Tdoo0T]

Hmmn yeah thats probably very sound advice.

I've had a bit of a search about but cant find anyone that's done it but in theory if you can put an 8" pajero diff housing in the front of an L300 with minimal mods, then would it not also then be possible to put in an LSD spool from an 8" L300 rear into the 8" Pajero front housing?

There's an L300 LSD on trademe at the moment, they seem to be common enough...

[Sadam_Husain]

Ok, as title states I'm interested in hearing peoples thoughts on welding up a front diff for my mitsi.

haha coz you asked mate you might as well weld the steering box up while your at it coz you'll never turn the thing with a welded front diff and you'll go straight over the bank at the first corner you come to

[doo0Tdoo0T]

What about a LOKKA Aussie locker? You can order them online for $400US.

Have been in touch with RJ at LOKKA and though they currently dont offer a 7.25" crownwheel solution for the front of an L300 however it's on their production schedule for 2013. Fingers crossed

Currently I'd have to put a 8" 1st gen Pajero diff in the front to fit a LOKKA but it's not a very good fit as the bracketry has to be cut off and re-positioned.

[Fakey]

Welded front is bad mmmkay.. Do you really need a front locker? Is it worth the effort an expense versus replacing the rear lsd with a good locker. Or is there a mitsi Lsd centre from another vehicle thatll bolt into your front diff?
You may find that with a locker/ welded centre in the rear you dont need a front one.
Imo no matter how tight an lsd is when push come to shove an say all the weight is on one side/wheel it wont be giving equal drive to both wheels where as a locker will

[pjb]

I've got a locker in the front of my Pajero.
Can't go round corners at all with the front locked.
If I'm not rolling forward, I can't even turn the steering wheel.

[doo0Tdoo0T]

Welded front is bad mmmkay.. Do you really need a front locker? Is it worth the effort and expense versus replacing the rear lsd with a good locker. Or is there a mitsi Lsd centre from another vehicle thatll bolt into your front diff?
You may find that with a locker/ welded centre in the rear you dont need a front one.
Imo no matter how tight an lsd is when push come to shove an say all the weight is on one side/wheel it wont be giving equal drive to both wheels where as a locker will

As far as I know the only way to fit a Mitsi LSD centre is to replace the 7.25" diffhead it has now with a low pinion 8" form the front of a 1st gen Pajero and then use an LSD centre and 4.875 crown wheel and pinion from the rear of an L300.
It fits ok and you dont even need to change the drive shaft but the mounting flanges are different and need to be cut off and re-welded.
So the answer is yes in a round about kind of way but the price of doing the swap and buying the bits will exceed the cost of a new auto locker.

On the subject of the locker though I think if I had two open diffs I'd get a locker for the front before I got a locker for the back. And thats also what LOKKA suggest doing too. If you have a browse of their website they have several good reasons why and I tend to agree with what they're saying. http://lokka.com/site/faq Question 10
The front wheels are the first to go into an obstacle and also the first to come out the other side.

The L300 has MUCH better articulation on the rear than the front so it's more likely I'll have both rear wheels on the ground than the front.
It suffers the "Pajero Salute" with one front wheel often off the ground through the lumpy stuff and what everyone said about the rear LSD including yourself is right. Its tight as far as LSD's go but in low gear crawling it still slips and seems to be a bit of a waste of time.

I've got a locker in the front of my Pajero.
Can't go round corners at all with the front locked.
If I'm not rolling forward, I can't even turn the steering wheel.

What type do you have?

[Dirtydog]

a lokka is different to a welded diff, more like another type of lsd, as it lets the out wheel spin fast when going around corners.

I think what people are trying to say is stay away from a WELDED front diff.

i agree with getting some sort of traction aid for the front, but i dont think you should before the back.

if the front diff is only a 7.25" are you sure it will handle the extra strain of having two wheels in traction when on the hard stuff?

[pjb]

I've got a locker in the front of my Pajero.
Can't go round corners at all with the front locked.
If I'm not rolling forward, I can't even turn the steering wheel.

What type do you have?

I've got an ARB RD110 for the 8" front. Factory rear locker.
Works a treat. Pretty much like cheating. Pricey too.

[spanky]

ran welded diffs in my vitara and it was great,put manual hubs on the front weld the front diff and your away,i used to unlock the rh side and drive round with 3 wheels locked,drove no different from open front diff,soon as you want it lock the hub and your true 4 wheel drive,steering was heavy but on slippery surfaces you didnt notice it with power steering.stopped my vitara breaking front diffs all the time which was an added bonus.

[Retro Pedro]

Echoing whats already been posted. Got a couple of mates that ran with a welded front diff on UK Vauxhall Frontera, purely because it was cheaper to weld up rather than replace the busted front diffs. Reckon with auto hubs it must be a nightmare and total no no. The two motors I know of both ran with manual hubs which does give the option leave one side unlocked to enable a bit of steering on harder surfaces. Both sides locked on was only really an option for real muddy conditions when there's a bit of give in the terrain surface.
The other aspect worth noting is that the next weakest link will break. With no front planetory gears the break in the diff, this usually means the CV joints. This as certainly been the case with my mates motors, that said the Frontera is IFS as opposed to live axle. Don't know if that would make much difference.

[doo0Tdoo0T]

Basically it's just a waiting game. Aussie locker have said there is a diff coming out in 2013 which will fit my front end.

ran welded diffs in my vitara and it was great,put manual hubs on the front weld the front diff and your away,i used to unlock the rh side and drive round with 3 wheels locked,drove no different from open front diff,soon as you want it lock the hub and your true 4 wheel drive,steering was heavy but on slippery surfaces you didnt notice it with power steering.stopped my vitara breaking front diffs all the time which was an added bonus.

By "Drive around" you still mean off road right? Dunno what the Vitara has in the transfer case but the L300 has no centre diff. I certainly couldn't drive around with three wheels locked unless there was a loose or muddy surface or it would wind up front to back.
I usually only ever engage 4wd when I've encountered traction problems and when there's traction problems there's obviously slip in the terrain or wheels in the air.

I wonder if each electric hub could be independently switched, then one wheel coudl be released with a flick of a switch if steering is becoming a bitch. If the locked wheel comes off the ground you could flick over to the other side.

Echoing whats already been posted. Got a couple of mates that ran with a welded front diff on UK Vauxhall Frontera, purely because it was cheaper to weld up rather than replace the busted front diffs. Reckon with auto hubs it must be a nightmare and total no no. The two motors I know of both ran with manual hubs which does give the option leave one side unlocked to enable a bit of steering on harder surfaces. Both sides locked on was only really an option for real muddy conditions when there's a bit of give in the terrain surface.
The other aspect worth noting is that the next weakest link will break. With no front planetory gears the break in the diff, this usually means the CV joints. This as certainly been the case with my mates motors, that said the Frontera is IFS as opposed to live axle. Don't know if that would make much difference.

Yeah the L300 is IRS too. Guess I'd have to have a steady supply of CV's...

Not that it's gunna happen anyway, I've abandoned the idea....for now

[pjb]

I wonder if each electric hub could be independently switched, then one wheel coudl be released with a flick of a switch if steering is becoming a bitch. If the locked wheel comes off the ground you could flick over to the other side.

I've tried this on my truck (driving with the front diff locked and one hub unlocked). Because I have quite a bit of positive scrub radius, just some moderate stabbing of the throttle tries to rip the wheel out of my hands.
With zero-ish scrub radius, should be totally fine.