Help with getting a first gun

[Dirtydog]

Hey guys, a mate of mine has decided he will be getting me a firearms licence for my birthday (well paying for it anyway) because hes tired of going out by himself, and because its something ive wanted to do for a long time.

the big question is what sort of gun should i get? most likely be going for deer and rabbits, not really a shotgun or birdshooting person.

i have used a few guns, really like the ruger .270, but after a 22 to start off with, to learn cleaning, sighting in etc (bit cheaper lol) would prefer semi auto 22 as will probably be gioing bunny shooting quite often.

I like the look of the ruger 10-22, my mate has one (yet to fire it, but he swears by it) and would look at getting the draganov style stock for it, thats what hes got on his and it feels alot more natural than the standard stock. i do relise they will be changing the laws soon, but hey, gives me a reason to go up to e cat later on.

the other option is the old norinco 22lr (usually 300 bucks at the shop with scope and suppressor)

so any suggestions? looking at something under the 500 mark, may go second hand but prefer new.

[keithal]

ive had both a norinco .22 and a ruger 10/22

i personally prefer the ruger for no other reason than the fact its semi auto
they both shot/shoot well

if you end up getting a ruger save a bit more cash when it comes to buying a new stock as the cheaper ones can flex alot which is not good for accuracy

i have just ordered a new boyds stock for my ruger


Cheers
Alex

[oljamesyboy]

i also have had both rifles the jw15 is a great rifle for the price but can quite often have feeding issues with the mag but that's a easy fix.

just brought another jw15 for missus to learn to use it cost me 243 bucks brand new with silencer and scope.

cant really fault the ruger 10/22 mine has probably over thousand rounds through it and still going strong there is heaps of after market bits out there for them but as said before don't cut cost by buying cheap mods you will end up paying for it later on.

it all kind of depends what experience you have with rifles if you have never had one or shot one i would go with jw15 just because its a nice simple bolt action rifle and with not having alot of experience a semi auto can be dodge. But then if you are using to shooting and have had several hunts etc the ruger would be a good option also

my 2c worth anyway

[Dirtydog]

cheers for the info guys, very helpfull.

I will have a bolt action 22 to use in the mean time, ive shot a couple of semis and a couple of bolt actions and prefer the semi auto, bit easier for rabbits.

of coarse when it comes to the 270 it will be bolt action, definitly ruger.

with the stock i was looking at the draganov one on trademe for around 200 bucks, does that sound about right? other option is my mate is getting some stuff sent over from the us, could i get a stock thrown into the lot or are there complications with that?

i think the ruger may be the way to go as i do like the fact there is a good lot of after market support for it.

[Swamped]

pretty sure firearms parts under $100 in value are exempt from the licencing requirements. I've brought in timney and volquartsen bits fine but had to use another outfit to get a hogue stock cos it was over the threshold.

A lot of those dragunov stocks are real flimsy and worse than the cheapo factory one.

[Dirtydog]

I thought that may be the case.

im not too worried about the look of the stock, im after the ergonomics.

i find the grip pointing downwards like that is alot more comfortable, id love to get one like this as it looks a bit sturdier, but it would make it an ecat rifle wouldnt it?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 575796.htm

[keithal]

I thought that may be the case.

im not too worried about the look of the stock, im after the ergonomics.

i find the grip pointing downwards like that is alot more comfortable, id love to get one like this as it looks a bit sturdier, but it would make it an ecat rifle wouldnt it?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 575796.htm

What about something like this?
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/product.h ... 4&cat=1214

Boyds are one of the best commercial stock manufacturers around
and it would cost you much more than 200 to 250 to get one of these imported direct from the states

[Dirtydog]

wasnt aware of those stocks, they do look rather good, not a fan of the colours, but it does look alot more comfortable than the draganov style stock anyway.

i suppose nothing a little paint cant fix.

looks like about 150 bucks roughly plus shipping, so isnt that far off the ones on tardme either way.

once again cheers for the help guys, i better get to studying the arms code again (read it 3 times now lol.)

[oljamesyboy]

Best thing to do is talk to your local arms officer he will be able to answer all your questions around what stocks etc you can have.

As for the test i wouldnt stress to much it al very straight forward and they go over the arms code with you before hand

[Dirtydog]

ill have a speak to him when he comes and does the check on the house.

as for the test everyone is telling me its just common sense and the 7 rules.

[Tarmac]

How about a bruno - not the "american" version, or something similar in a quality bolt action / wooden stock but I am a little bias, look at it like gd training for the big bore and something you will want to keep .

Anything between 243 and 35 will smack a deer hard just slightly differently. I am bias towards the 270 though , have you handled a win mod 70 feather light? with the european stock - again bias but very nice..

[Dirtydog]

How about a bruno - not the "american" version, or something similar in a quality bolt action / wooden stock but I am a little bias, look at it like gd training for the big bore and something you will want to keep .

Anything between 243 and 35 will smack a deer hard just slightly differently. I am bias towards the 270 though , have you handled a win mod 70 feather light? with the european stock - again bias but very nice..

no ive only really held the ruger 270, and a tikka t3 lite which wasnt really my cup of tea.

i liked that the ruger wasnt too light if ya know what i mean, had a nice feel to it, but hey, if i come accross someone with one ill see if i can get my hands on it for a few shots and see what its like.

my mates just picked up a ruger mini30, so ill see if i can get a few shots off with one of them too.

[mack]

hey mate personally id look at a .22 magnum or a .22 hornet if you could get your hands on one.. i have a couple .22lrs and .22mag .22 hornet and hardly ever use my .22 lrs now. with the magnum i can take out rabbits 300m away and can kill goats with it. its a norinco jw20 can get them from hunting and fishing for around 400 by memory. the .22 hornet is a old bruno ive killed rabbits deer pigs goats shammy the lot with it. as for my big gun im currently running a tikka .270 and cant complain with it. in the end it all depends on what the majority of your shooting is going to be though. for a bush gun i personally think your beter of with a .303 or .308 as being heavier they dont tend to deflect of twigs as much... i picked up a couple of mauser 6.5x55s recently from gore cheap for my oldman and his mate 350 each synthetic stocks tight actions and both sporting bushnell scopes. if your going to be doing more open country shooting id recomened spending a bit more on your scope that your gun. cause in the end if you cant see it you cant shoot it

[Dirtydog]

thats very good advice.

i think most of it will be rabbit shooting to be honest, dont know to many places around here, and not keen on travelling major distances to get to deer.

thinking the 270 will be for when i go out specificly for deer, as the ammo is a bit expensive compared to others, but ill see how it goes as i probably wont be able to get a bigger gun till later down the track, i think i will have to handle a few more and see what they are like.

[mack]

plenty of spots local down here mate youve got the hokonuis pretty close and down to catlins or over longwoods/blue cliffs or 2 hours and ur at eyre mountains up athol or mavora monowai/hauroko lots of places close best advice i can give you being a young fella and only getting right into shooting since i got my licence at 5 years ago when i was old enough is just get out there you may not see anything for ages and just feel like your going armed tramping but then one day everything youve learnt on previous excursions just clicks and falls into place and bang youve bagged your first animal haha

[Dirtydog]

plenty of spots local down here mate youve got the hokonuis pretty close and down to catlins or over longwoods/blue cliffs or 2 hours and ur at eyre mountains up athol or mavora monowai/hauroko lots of places close best advice i can give you being a young fella and only getting right into shooting since i got my licence at 5 years ago when i was old enough is just get out there you may not see anything for ages and just feel like your going armed tramping but then one day everything youve learnt on previous excursions just clicks and falls into place and bang youve bagged your first animal haha

i know what thats like, live next to the matura river and sometimes it feels like your just practising you casting, then the next day you come home with at least 2.

i think it comes down to not knowing anyone to show me around too, last thing i want to do is go hunting and get lost lol.

atleast i have a vehicle which will be good for getting to some spots, ive been over by the gore repeater and over past dolamore park, didnt see anything either time but i think we were far too noisey as there was 4 of us.

[mack]

yea gps or plb are great things aye and sometimes crashing round is exactly what brings them out haha

[chrome]

get a 223 maybe??
good on bunnys right up to fallow/goats and small deer
just not a sharp idea whackin possums out of trees with one, get a 22 or shotty for that

so ya need a .22
a shotty
a .223
and a big gun .270 .303 7mm08 .338magnum blah blah

thats nz covered for hunting, all other guns are just toys after that

[Dirtydog]

id like a 223 but most of them are abit out of my budget, i think the ruger 10/22 with a new stock would be about the best i could do for now.

[chrome]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 943315.htm

cheap as, not that I like GC tho
second hand ones do pop up occasionally

[Dirtydog]

bolt action though, anything below a 270 id prefer semi auto so i can put out follow through shots alot easier with the small caliber.

i do like the mini14 though, managed to handle one the other day and theyre quite nice. may look at getting one of them a bit later down the track.

[juz]

I use a Marlin 795 semi auto .22, cheaper than Ruger new. Think mine was $450ish a few years ago. great wee rifle, get them as a scoped/suppresed package too. Not as many aftermarket parts as 10/22 but still a few, trying to get a 25rnd mag for mine out of the states at the moment.

[Heath]

I've got a marlin and voere .22, both bolt actions. The marlin was cheaper and it outshoots the voere. Great rifle, check out the rimfire forums for advice on the lil cals (the marlin semi has good reviews as has the 10/22 but is half the price - which buys a nice scope and moderator too). You could consider a 17hmr too - longer range and flatter trajectory, but costs more to feed it.

For a deer gun/varmint (rabbits, cats, goats etc) on open land I would probably go with a .243 bolt. The .223 is great on the little stuff but will be struggling with anything bigger than a fallow. Yeah I know "But I always head shoot... blah...blah....blah", in my opinion you are better to have too much rifle than not enough. If you happen apon that trophy stag and only have the .223 you know you will consider making the shot. Expensive to shoot if you use it for rabbits, but handloading isnt too bad and you can taylor rds to suit (40-50gr for bunnies, 55-70gr for fallow etc and 70+gr for bigger game. A moderator will help to take the sting out of the report (and can help tighten accuracy too) so you dont startle all your game species. Also some farmers wont allow you to shoot without them as they find animals get gunshy and hide so controling them gets harder.

For anything in close scrubby stuff (25-75m) a ruger mini30 or Saiga (AK variant) or sks would be my choice. All 7.62 shorts (cheap ammo) all semis (quick follow up on moving close range stuff before they dissappear), open sights and cheap too (not the ruger but the others arent too bad). No point in having a long range shooter if you can only see 50 yards.

If you are after bigger game over longer open ranges (100-300m) with the very occassional small animal then you need to go 270/303/308 etc.

Horses for courses. Pick your main game target and build up your wish list from there. If you go too small then you will have to walk away from a big trophy, if you go too big you will carry extra weight and each shot will cost more (not to mention scaring everything for miles around).

Just my opinions and possibly less than 2 cents worth

[Dirtydog]

honestly heath that is some very good info, definitly opended up my mind a bit.

there is a 22lr at my local gunshop for about 300 and it comes with a scope, suppressor and 15 round mag, was thinking about it but im sorta towards the more you pay the better the reliability.

if i were to buy a cheap gun it would definitly be new though.

i think the main reason i want to get the ruger is the after market options for them, and ive never heard anything bad about them either.

as for the bigger guns, i think deer will be the main game of choice, so thinking ruger 270, not really wanting to go over the 30 cal mark but would settle for a 7.62mm easily, like the look of the sks.

[chrome]

I have a m14/305 7.62x51/ 308win semi sitting here for sale. its been modded a bit but its a minta goat gun.
ruger hawkeye allweather is a beaut gun for $1200 new.
will never need to be replaced

[vvilly]

I thought that may be the case.

im not too worried about the look of the stock, im after the ergonomics.

i find the grip pointing downwards like that is alot more comfortable, id love to get one like this as it looks a bit sturdier, but it would make it an ecat rifle wouldnt it?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 575796.htm

What about something like this?
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/product.h ... 4&cat=1214

Boyds are one of the best commercial stock manufacturers around
and it would cost you much more than 200 to 250 to get one of these imported direct from the states

ive got the same stock on my bsev savage "love it"

[Swamped]

I was given one of these stocks. Mines choate branded and its a piece of crap. May as well have the action seated in a wet noodle for how stiff it is. It doesn't look as hardcore but the oem 10/22 wooden stock is far better. I remove the barrel bands and float em and they perform a lot better. There are plenty of other easy beneficial mods for them too.

Laminate stocks are awesome on 10/22s but really as a first firearm not necessary. Just get a wood stock model and you should be off to a good start. buy trick bits after you've had one for a while.

[Tarmac]

Sure 223s 22 hornets etc have killed their fair share of deer but I do not recomend them for some one getting their FAL and heading out for a stag... 243 min (7mm08 308 etc) in the short action, 6.5 mm x - 7x anything but 39?(AK) 8x or even 9mm in the metric, 25-06 270 30-06 for the long action.

Once you have put a few hundy rounds through a bolt .22 smackin rabbits and a few doz through the centerfire of your choice at the range even with a little buck fever you will be able to empty a 5-7 shot mag from a bolt action centerfire accurately without moving the rifle from your shoulder or loosing track of your next target through your left eye. (Think waynes world "left cam right cam....)

[Chairmen]

Heres a Ruger for you all you need to do is get the stock of your choice an your set.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =579526682

The 10/22 are great little rifle's, got a love the things you can do too them...

[Dirtydog]

still havnt seen that dam movie, ive been meaning to for ages.

i can understand what your saying definitly, the 22 would definitly be a bunny gun, 270 or a 7.62mm for deer or goats etc.

it probably would be a while before i got a new stock, funds arnt plentyfull but it will be nice to be able to get some cheaper meat.

so the way i see it the ol 22lrs that are usually 300 with all the perks are good for their price, but if i want a gun that wont let me down the 10/22 is a good choice?

id be much happier getting a more reliable gun, even if it costs 200 more.

been thinking lately with all the fuss going on with assault rifles, e cat etc i think i may just stick to a 10/22 and a 270 or 7.62mm on the wish list, but wel see what happens.