School me on building bars

[T-mo]

Kia Ora ORE,

I started mocking up a winch bar for my GQ Safari over the weekend to house a PTO driven winch. So a few cardboard boxes later I have a rough idea of what I want it to look like (Sorry forgot to snap a photo).

Anyway, My steel work experience is very limited and my welding is will almost non existent. My plan was to purchase the steel and cut it then tack it together using my very limited skills and then get someone with some expertise in welding to structurally weld it and tidy up the welds then paint it. I've got a few questions though. I have access to both a gas and gas-less MIG welders, a decent mill, lathe, cut-off saw, grinders, benders etc. with a few options for work areas. I also know of a rather large plasma cutting table nearby I could probably "borrow" for some sheet cutting for some form of liquid compensation (beers).

The idea is anything structural (The cradle) will be 6mm and everything else 2.5mm or 3mm to fend off unwary trees etc. Is this an overkill or about right?

I've found a piece of 4x2 fits perfectly into the chassis rails of my truck so was going to use 4x2 U section as the sides of the cradle however being a metric country can you get it or am I better using some L section or flat bar?

Is there any legal issues (Truck needs a cert anyway) with bar work I should be aware of. As in what will/won't be certified.

As with most of my projects my bars could take a while to come into existence by I'm looking to get my truck all done by the end of the year and the major things left (so I can cert it) is bar work and a 2" suspension lift which I'm sure I can figure out.

Any advice/experience sharing would be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to doing this project with another ORE member in Auckland who has the tools/experience (either at home in their shed/at their workshop) in exchange for liquid refreshments of course, if anyone is keen I'm sure we could work something out.

[coxsy]

Standard rails are u or c section, your thickness choice. Is fine, bar work is included in cert details on my cert tag

[Dirtydog]

in terms of certing etc, aslong as it doesnt have any sharp corners, and it doesnt slope foward (in a way that it would push someone unerneath the truck) you should be allright.

Be carefull in terms of obscuring lights etc aswell.

You should be able to find 2x4 box, 50mm x 100mm.

As for the welding, get some scrap steel the same thickness that your planning on working on, and have some fun, look up how to mig weld on youtube and youll find a plethora of info and skills you can practise, and remember that practice makes perfect.

[Clint]

If you've got access to the gear a bullbar is a great project to learn to weld on. Just get some input from someone that knows what they're doing as you go to make sure you get the welder set up right & don't make too big a mess of it. A few tips from a keen hobby welder:

Try & break a few of your practice welds to make sure you're doing it right.

Move the bar around as you go so you are welding level & downhand as much as possible. This will mean lots of putting it on, tacking, & taking it off but getting the work in the best position & getting yourself comfortable will result in much better welds.

Get your joins clean & as close fitting as you can. This is really important.

Keep the MIG lead as straight as possible.

Cheers
Clint

[De-Ranged]

Get your joins clean & as close fitting as you can. This is really important.

Very important!
If you weld up a gap as the weld cools the weld wants to shrink a little bit not much of an issue for your lines but can make your mounts move far enough that you wont mount it again

As far as thickness that is the minimum I'd use and I'd still add some support ribs under the center of your winch plate if it dosn't have much shape, shape is strength look at toms bars he curves them down and under and round at the ends this adds alot of strength

A good trick to do to help mounts line up make some sheet metal shims to fit between your bar mounts and chassis and bolt down tight before you start spot welding

Cheers Reece

[lax2wlg]

Could somebody who is actually a qualified WOF/Cert specialist please verify what the doggfather is saying as being true, or just more misinformation, before this poor guy goes and builds a winch bar based on his recommendations.

[De-Ranged]

I deal with cert on a semi regular basis
Don't stress it bars are not a cert item, they can at request be added to cert tags and I recomend this if you are going for cert, the reason why is every now and then joe public (non-4wder's) get scared of big mean bullbars and try and outlaw them... having them listed on your cert means you have a legal date they were fitted and if there is a law change you aviod any drama there is another reason but this is a cheat to run wide rubber well outside the guards with the bar work listed on cert it becomes the outside of the guard allowing your tyres more offset

Now for the legal crap your bars are spose to recline back not lean forward think from memory its a max vert angle of 5 degrees back towards body of the car, also there can be no sharp edges or points min of 3mm radius
The reality because bars from the old landies on have leaned forward and alot of the import aftermarket stuff is vertical or slopped forward slightly... so nobody worries so long as its not seen as dangerous or likely to force somebody under the vehicle in an accident
My recomendation don't do american "stinger" bars you will get ping'd other than that so long as there are no sharp bits and it looks functional be creative

Cheers Reece

[T-mo]

Cheers for the advice guys keep it coming. I'm sure I put a reply on here last night but obviously didn't. Might have to go find myself some scrap steel from somewhere and have a bit of a practice.

[lax2wlg]

now what was the purpose of putting your comment up Lax2wlg? it doesnt add anything to the thread, remember what we all agreed to.

Okey dokey, let me just warm up my fingers...

Tristan you're trying to be a wise guy again...I'm just sick of coming to this site and being bombarded with your VAGUE MISINFORMATION jack of all trades master of none posts all day long. You established yourself as a post whore on this site long ago. You are the type of poster that drives knowledgeable people away.

You have no credibility or direct experience/qualifications with 95% of the things you go on about. You are not a veteran of anything, you're not special, life is hard, move on.

You have shown repeatedly that you are immature and righteous and not willing to take anyones advice on how to conduct yourself, a lot of people including myself have tried to help you out and push you in the right direction but even when you are flat out wrong - like in the definition of a center diff lock thread - you insist on arrogantly bullshitting your way out of it.

If youre going to clutter up this site the least you could do is buy a freakin membership and use the spell checker, and use capitals at the start of your sentences.

Please don't bother responding to this or PMing me 'whats your problem?' again okay because I can keep going if you ask for a whole new thread.

Its getting to be too annoying for me, you may a lot less of me around these parts

ps T-Mo I'm really sorry to jack your thread

[keithal]

now what was the purpose of putting your comment up Lax2wlg? it doesnt add anything to the thread, remember what we all agreed to.

Okey dokey, let me just warm up my fingers...

Tristan you're trying to be a wise guy again...I'm just sick of coming to this site and being bombarded with your VAGUE MISINFORMATION jack of all trades master of none posts all day long. You established yourself as a post whore on this site long ago. You are the type of poster that drives knowledgeable people away.

You have no credibility or direct experience/qualifications with 95% of the things you go on about. You are not a veteran of anything, you're not special, life is hard, move on.

You have shown repeatedly that you are immature and righteous and not willing to take anyones advice on how to conduct yourself, a lot of people including myself have tried to help you out and push you in the right direction but even when you are flat out wrong - like in the definition of a center diff lock thread - you insist on arrogantly bullshitting your way out of it.

If youre going to clutter up this site the least you could do is buy a freakin membership and use the spell checker, and use capitals at the start of your sentences.

Please don't bother responding to this or PMing me 'whats your problem?' again okay because I can keep going if you ask for a whole new thread.

Its getting to be too annoying for me, you may a lot less of me around these parts

ps T-Mo I'm really sorry to jack your thread

[Ralfie]

now what was the purpose of putting your comment up Lax2wlg? it doesnt add anything to the thread, remember what we all agreed to.

Okey dokey, let me just warm up my fingers...

Tristan you're trying to be a wise guy again...I'm just sick of coming to this site and being bombarded with your VAGUE MISINFORMATION jack of all trades master of none posts all day long. You established yourself as a post whore on this site long ago. You are the type of poster that drives knowledgeable people away.

You have no credibility or direct experience/qualifications with 95% of the things you go on about. You are not a veteran of anything, you're not special, life is hard, move on.

You have shown repeatedly that you are immature and righteous and not willing to take anyones advice on how to conduct yourself, a lot of people including myself have tried to help you out and push you in the right direction but even when you are flat out wrong - like in the definition of a center diff lock thread - you insist on arrogantly bullshitting your way out of it.

If youre going to clutter up this site the least you could do is buy a freakin membership and use the spell checker, and use capitals at the start of your sentences.

Please don't bother responding to this or PMing me 'whats your problem?' again okay because I can keep going if you ask for a whole new thread.

Its getting to be too annoying for me, you may a lot less of me around these parts

ps T-Mo I'm really sorry to jack your thread

Now what was that about dealing with topic, staying on topic and not attacking the person?

[oldyella]

Back on topic

Tomsoffroad & Custom just completed a front bar on a GQ which incorporated a winch. If you haven't seen it, you can check it out here:

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=27391&start=945

The advice you have been given is all good stuff.

A bit of practice will go a long way and it is good to hear you have already done a lot of work on a template from cardboard.

The steel thicknesses of 6, 3 and 2mm sound good. At the end of the day you want to bend the bar and not the chassis.

If you weld new mounts onto the chassis to mount the bar, because the factory ones are crap or in the wrong place etc, then I think it has to go onto the cert plate.

Cheers,

Pete

[T-mo]

Cheers Pete,

I intend to use the factory points, as that's what Nissan used. Hopefully some brainy engineer designed it to winch off, seeing as they sold winches to fit there.

I have seen Tom's work, even asked if he'd sell me the blue print.

[Clint]

Some nice work by Tom there Note his use of dimple dies - an easy lathe project since you have access to one & a good way to add heaps of strength to thinner flat sections.

One thing I prefer on a winch bar is to keep it relatively open around the winch. Assuming the winch isn't just for show, winch rope snarl-ups are a matter of when not if. Trying to do keyhole surgery on tangled rope aint fun. Tom's bar above has about the bare minimum of access IMHO, it is however a heck of a lot better than most commercial winch bars & quite a few I have seen built.

Cheers
Clint

[T-mo]

Some nice work by Tom there Note his use of dimple dies - an easy lathe project since you have access to one & a good way to add heaps of strength to thinner flat sections.

One thing I prefer on a winch bar is to keep it relatively open around the winch. Assuming the winch isn't just for show, winch rope snarl-ups are a matter of when not if. Trying to do keyhole surgery on tangled rope aint fun. Tom's bar above has about the bare minimum of access IMHO, it is however a heck of a lot better than most commercial winch bars & quite a few I have seen built.

Cheers
Clint

Hey Clint,

Cheers for the advice, I too like those dimples on Tom's handy work. I was planning of having a hinged access panel on the top of my bar (About the size of of the two holes in Tom's bar, but as one door) that is secured by a couple of quick release fasteners for accessing the freewheel hub on the winch and to sort out any rope issues.

Might have to do so research on dimpling steel.