Reliability

[bang-thud-thump]

Gidday.

Im 4x4 hunting and after a lengthy chat with a bloke with a diesel Disco and 2 Defenders Im interested with caution.
Caution as I was a mechanic for years and British stuff was not exactly regarded well.

I realise Im asking about beer at a pub in this forum but what sort of reliability do you lot get from discos ir defenders - prob a diesel disco cause I drive to much to run a V8 sadly.

Illl be mosty round town with some 4x4 (will be alll new to me) and going meat hunting with a mate.

Maybe I should post this in an open area but with all the slagging I wont get much useful info. People forget that Toyotas blow up too it seems.

I really like later series Landys and 110s but they can be dear! It needs room for a mutt too.

Cheers for any advice!

[BlakeNZ]

Having owned a series 3 109" and a 110 Landie, I've kept an eye on other Land rover products, and in my opinion the Disco is junk. This has mainly been caused by electrical issues, and expensive parts and servicing. They seem (in my mind at least) a bit soft compared to the defenders.
Though some people have had good runs out of them.
THe 'Dog and lemon guide' is notoriously negative, but always worth a read(mostly because it compiles info from numerous owners)....I was surprised to read the following...."probably the most competent off road performer in its class" BUT not surprised to also read " have suffered from appalling reliability from new. Not recommended. In fact if you buy one of these, you deserve everything you get."
In terms of Defenders, you are right about them holding their value! I loved my 110, but to be fair, it had a nissan diesel in it. The whole truck had very few electrics to go wrong.

[lilpigzuk]

Having owned a series 3 109" and a 110 Landie, I've kept an eye on other Land rover products, and in my opinion the Disco is junk. This has mainly been caused by electrical issues, and expensive parts and servicing. They seem (in my mind at least) a bit soft compared to the defenders.
.

Thankfully we are all entitled to our own opinion.
Assuming you are talking about body work on a disco being soft compared to a defender as (apart from the salisbury axle) they are essentially identical mechanically wise

What parts in particular are expensive compared (to I assume the comparison is) to jappa 4wds?

Im all for an open (facts only and actual first hand experience) discussion

[lax2wlg]

Assuming you are talking about body work on a disco being soft compared to a defender as (apart from the salisbury axle) they are essentially identical mechanically wise

x2 in fact that Discovery drivetrain of 300Tdi/ZF Auto/Borg Warner transfer was one of the most reliable setups they ever made, IMO. I had a friend who had one of these which had 300,000km+ (relatively) trouble free ROAD kms on the clock.

By reliability, maybe the dog and lemon guide is referring to niggly things - power windows, power seats, door latches etc.. Not major mechanical items that prevent you from using the vehicle or leaving you stranded.

[bang-thud-thump]

Cheers for the info but I expect anything to do 300,000+ road km without engine work or its a dog these days.

Offroad work would be different though or heavy towing.

The other idea is a Safari SWB, reliable as but a big beast and 6 of a lot of things will cost more than 4 but no turbo.......... I do my head in

[oldyella]

It is a common mis-conception that LR/disco parts are more expensive than jappa parts. This may have been the case 10 years ago, but it isn't now.

I have disco suspension componentry under my V8 LR project and have found parts readily available and reasonably priced.

There is also a massive array of aftermarket offroad suspension components available.

I think the turbo diesel's, just like any older turbo diesel, will probably do a head, gasket or crack, unless your one of those lucky people, or you get one with proof of $ spent recently.

Cheers,

Pete

[LR90NZ]

The only vehicles that give problems are those that are not serviced or maintained properly.

The older a vehicle is the less money and time people want to spend on maintenance hence vehicle deteriorates and suffers.

Applies to any make or model vehicle.

Was talking to a guy the other week who has a range of vehicles from different manufacturers including Toyota, Land Rover and Jeep. His comment was 1998 Discovery was the most reliable with trouble free motoring. Unfortunately his Toyota Land Cruiser was the most unreliable and troublesome.

[Trundle]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm , is this the first time i have seen the word reliabilty and rover in the same scentence ,
In my opinion as weak as crap , yes the gear box is average by not great by any means , Axles are as weak as tooth pics ,
electrics are crap , diesels have more issues than i could mention , petrol v8s suffer from all sorts of cam wear issues and electrical gremlins not to mention they drink more than a big block chev , everything in the engine bay is plastic ,
The only upside i can mention is that the turbo diesels are really fuel efficient but you will have to put the fuel savings towards constant maintinance ,
Only the guilty will support these vehicles , They are the kind of car that is good new for 5 years but but just a disposable item after that , Having owned them , i can assure you they are utter crap ,
My mate up the road has over 40 of them , people often sending them from around to country to have phantom electrical faults fixed , and often having to bring parts from the uk for them ,
Im sure this will offend people but i am un bias , i have worked on shitloads , reconned many engines , bla bla , And also owned many nissans and toyota's ,
Any how just my two cents ,

[Trundle]

Keeping in mind that these and cruisers are both full time 4wd so far more drive train maintainance is required

[mazdamike]

parts are cheep just ask lilpig. engine bays are full of plastic???Do u fix freelanders??????
personily doing a cambelt and bigends every 100,000ks like the 80serious to keep them going is rubbish

[Timmy511]

i emigrated to NZ and bought a cruiser, its taken me over a year after to even be able to look a 4wd as a fun thing again!

Landrover are the best out of the box 4wd you can buy, best suspension (easily modified for more travel off road), light, cheap and reliable.

the biggest weakness in the system is the 'diffs', drive axles, cvs and diff centres are weak, if you keep to smaller than 32s, youll be ok with a careful foot.

The best way to combat this is to get an auto, the torque converter removes the harsh shock loading through the drive line when bouncing wheels.

The best to buy in your situation is a 200 tdi auto disco, simple, cheap and very reliable. You will more than likely end up buying a 300tdi auto, if so, when buying run it hard up a hill to check for over heating and also check the header tank for plenty of fluid, if this hasnt been kept upto theywill do a head gasket, if left they wash valleys into the head. once you buy one lift the header tank with some home made brackets as high as you can as this prevents air locks and over heating issues. then just service as per usual and itll keep trucking for years.

also check for rust, if its been by the sea this could be a big problem, if you get one that lived in otago itll still have its factory black on the chassis.


ive owned heaps of landrovers back in the uk, ive just bought another out here, i honestly think theyre the best truck money can buy, a 90 with a td5, auto, chromolly shafts and cv and a pair of lockers, ultimate truck! unfortunatly im messing around in a cut and shut 110/90 hybrid!

ive also had a suzuki sj, two landcruisers and a hilux, the only one of them that has been reasonable is the hilux (daily driver) but its gutless and has some of the most stupid build ideas ive ever seen.

[churchill]

After working on both I would say that the average Japanese vehicle is better designed and assembled than a british vehicle but both have their issues and it seems to be specific to certain components. To me it comes down to how many of these component are on each vehicle and how difficult it is to fix them.

For example I just bought a Focus Diesel 2008, it has the worst wiring and plumbing I have ever seen in a vehicle. They miss wiring boots, plumbing is not bolted in but clipped in and some lengths of plumbing span a too long a distance without support. There's also a loom there that rests it weight in a small section of wire which in turn rubs on a shield, I suspect this is how wiring faults are caused. On the other hand it does have the best chassis I have ever driven, have a good torquey motor and great brakes. Time will tell how it lasts but I do wish it was better engineered as it would probably make it more reliable.

[bang-thud-thump]

Yeah it is often little things that let them down.

Electrical gremlins are a real pain to fix, I hate electrickery.

The Safari TD42s dont seem to have many detractors though unless size is an issue.

[tweake]

after fixing faults on mates range rover certainly there is some really silly design/build problems.
obvious stuff like using a big long rubber vac line routed around the engine bay and another one is hard plastic. even cheap vehicles use steel hard line for 90% of the length with rubber hoses at the end.
big long rubber/plastic hoses are notorious for splitting, wearing, pinholes.

its got fuel injection, anti-theft system, electronic everything but still runs an antique dissy!

[churchill]

Yeah same with this Focus, low pressure fuel lines are plastic where steel would normally be used. Would defiantly have a shorter life than steel by the look and feel of it... Just another part to be monitored.

[lax2wlg]

The Safari TD42s dont seem to have many detractors though unless size is an issue.

Very few, there isn't a 4x4 enthusiast worth his weight in salt that can't appreciate the Safari in some way..but for mostly round town use, it may not be the best option

Considerations:
-Because it is a commercial duty vehicle, it is 'slow' by modern standards
-Engine oil change will run you 10+ litres & 2 bypass filters every 5000km (by the book)
-Front diff service will run you 5.3l of oil
-It wont get 30+ mpg like a diesel Disco

One the other hand, One of the conditions of the UN Armed Forces contract with Nissan is that they would guarantee 1 million km of use out of their Patrols without any major mechanical work.

[Trundle]

parts are cheep just ask lilpig. engine bays are full of plastic???Do u fix freelanders??????
personily doing a cambelt and bigends every 100,000ks like the 80serious to keep them going is rubbish

Have you not seen the 3.0 thermostat assemblies in the discos plastic as shit !!! I didnt say anything suporting 80 series , fyi if you use copper nickle bearings you will never have to replace them again ,
Get a turbo diesel safari or patrol , at least rust and fuel consumption are the only real down falls ,

[DieselBoy]

This thread is funny. I love all the soap box standing and the brand predjudice coming from all these folks that have never owned and wheeled the vehicles they are bagging.

This is all from personal experience having owned and/or wheeled these particular vehicles at some point over the years.

Surf 2.4

Rusty doors
Rust round front windscreen and side windows
Turbo lag terrible
Blowby horrendus at 200,000ks
shim and bucket tappets are imposible to DIY
dodgy rear electric tail gate window thingy
piss weak front diff
Leaf rear, IFS
Crack heads
expensive as fuk parts
poorly/weakly built suspension components
Rear shock top pins break,
Suspension mounting holes in chassis flog out
Steering Idler always flogging out
Dirty old technology diesel, precombustion chambers, no intercooler
31" tyres are a squeeze with 2" sus lift
These real old ones are cheap as chips

Surf 1KZ & V6 (haven't owned either of these, but work very closely with them)
Rusty doors
Rust round front windscreen and side windows
shim and bucket tappets are impossible to DIY
dodgy rear electric tail gate window thingy
piss weak front diff
IFS say no more
Crack heads on both 1kz ans V6
expensive as fuk parts
poorly/weakly built suspension components
Rear shock top pins break,
Suspension mounting holes in chassis flog out
Steering Idler always flogging out
Dirty old technology diesel, precombustion chambers, no intercooler
Dull and thirsty 3l V6.
V6 almost impossible to work on in the truck, ie have to lift engine to replace starter
O2 sensor plug on v6 gets wet and engine won't run
31" tyres are a squeeze with 2" sus lift

Terrano
TD27t EGR blocked up, neede removing and manifold had to be cleaned etc
Front timing cover seals weap coolent. Big job to fix.
Gearbox don't go the distance
Rust under rear seats
Front diffs break easily
Steering is atrocious, bends all over the place
CVs and IFS. Yuck.
Dirty old technology diesel, precombustion chambers, no intercooler
31" simex fit with 2" lift
Can be found real cheap

Safari SWB
Big
Heavy
Gutless
Rust in roof, doors, sills, front windscreen
coolent leaks around timing cover
Dirty old technology diesel, precombustion chambers, no intercooler, no turbo
Horrible heavy clunky truck gearbox, terrible gear change from 1st to 2nd when cold
Big 9" diffs, get hung up EVERYWHERE
33's with a 2" lift
Parts are around, but everyone wants to charge a premium for them
expensive to buy a nice tidy one

80 Series Cruiser
Big
Heavy
REALLY Thirsty
Fire wall rust
big ends every 100,000ks
turbo lunched its self
cyclinder head cracked
super pricey dual stage injectors
chassis cracked around steering box
electric windows are farkn useless!!!!
sunroof leaks
Aircon compressor poohed out
Hand brake always useless and impossible to adjust
front windscreen leakage
Better direct injected turbo diesel, still no intercooler
4" lift and 33's, gearing was no good with any bigger tyres
9" rear diff always getting hung up
high pinion 8" front always blow up in reverse
one big fat heavy thirsty truck. Terrible off road due to weight and size
expesnikve to buy even a shitty half rooted one

Classic Range Rover Vogue, 3.5 EFI
Cheap to buy
Dizzy allergic to water, fixed with HEI dizzy
unlockable viscous center diff
rusty tailgate
31's fit with no lift
Light
Solid axle front and rear
coil sprung
suspected head gasket leak
No electrical issues

SWB Prado 2.4 (my Dads truck)
Flex?? what Flex??
Rust in rear corners, doors and around windscreen
Cylinder head
Injector pump leaking
EFI Computer crapped out, wouldn't go. Middle of nowhere it just stopped dead. Tow truck home styles.
Old style diesel, indirect injected, turbo charged, EFI, no intercooler
8" Diffs
Fitted some 33"MTRs on 15x8" rims with stock suspension. No rubbage
They look TERRIBLE.Box on wheels
still holding their value
Parts expensive
Nice to work on.

These are all common faults with all of these vehicles, a google search will add proof if you are not convinced.

I would say that any niggle you can pull up with a Land Rover product is no worse than some of the horror stories coming from the Nissan and Toyota factories!!!

[DieselBoy]

I forgot to add:

2.8 Hilux
wow expensive
2.8 is so more gutless than the 540cc 2stroke in my LJ50!!!
Zip zero flex from the heavy comercial load carrrying leaf spring set up
horrible car style sit on the floor seating position
steering C arm a terrible design, break all the time
Hand brake cables fill with water and freeze up over night locking the hand brake on
can only just fit 31's with out a sus lift
solid axle front and rear is a plus
too gutless and ridgedly sprung(uncomfortable) for me

[Bulletproof]

The reason parts break on a Land rover is that they are built using Rover car parts which are weak. The original 48 used P2 parts.

A nissan on the other hand uses truck parts but it makes them heavy but they don't break.

On the other hand I own the very first Series 2 made 2 months before the release of the 2 and it is still going strong with all its original running gear 55 years later

Cheers Richard

[DieselBoy]

The reason parts break on a Land rover is that they are built using Rover car parts which are weak. The original 48 used P2 parts.



Cheers Richard

You crack me up Richard.

The only reason, the single only reason they break is because land Rovers are really just road cars??

Yup that's it right there. Thanks for clearing it up.

So the full floater rear rover axle, that was in what car??

I don't think rover ever produced a car with a live front axle??

The LT95, what cars was that from??

So the Salisburyrear axle, what road car was that in??

The R380 gearbox?? Road car was that in??

The LT230 transfercase?? Thats was in what road car??

The LT77 was "derived" from an early Jag box to provide that smooth car like gearshifting

The diff head was derived from a road going rover.

I say your opinion is unfounded, you are totally full of shit, and that's my firm opinion

V8 bobtailed Hilux's forever

[Trundle]

4 HP 22 gearbox came out in the 3 series bmw , some rover cars and the mighty Landy sauruswrex !!!

[lilpigzuk]

Have you not seen the 3.0 thermostat assemblies in the discos plastic as shit !!! I didnt say anything suporting 80 series , fyi if you use copper nickle bearings you will never have to replace them again ,
Get a turbo diesel safari or patrol , at least rust and fuel consumption are the only real down falls ,

Are you sure you know what a Land Rover Discovery is

This is a 300 tdi thermostat



this is the thermostat housing, err yeah, alloy housing



You will have to excuse the plastic everywhere though, oil filler cap, handle for dipstick, cover over ac compressor - still cant believe they made them in plastic

But yep get a Nissan cos everything else is $hit

and before you label me a rover lover, my vehicle of choice off road is a suzuki

[DieselBoy]

You also need to be comparing late 1980's vehicles with late 1980's vehicles, not talking about 1970s classic rangies and 1950's series landies compared with late 80's/1990's patrols and cruisers.

[Trundle]

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=discov ... =120&ty=77

Those are the piles of shit i speak of lol

[Trundle]

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=discov ... x=67&ty=78
I wonder if they ship it to whanga road ?

[Pedro]

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=discovery+thermostat&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=GJivU4k0O8IEPM:&imgrefurl=http://landroverforums.com/forum/discovery-ii-18/how-old-your-thermostat-glad-i-changed-mine-54065/&docid=NN7VWF4Ho6YdJM&imgurl=http://landroverforums.com/forum/members/zb-30-38487-albums-2004-discovery-s7-755-picture-old-thermostat-4258.jpg&w=596&h=464&ei=ZvDLUdzJJs3_lAWZuIDwDg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:4,s:0,i:88&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=198&tbnw=255&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=120&ty=77

Those are the piles of shit i speak of lol

better chuck ford and toyota in there for using plastic in cooling systems, had to replace heater valves, header tanks and overflow bottle in ford, and of course the good old falcon heater using plastic pipes that turn to mush after about 10 yrs of use that require removing the entire bloody dash including degassing the air cond to replace, regardless of the brand they all have issues in one form or the other, i own a disco, got rid of the weak shit and never had a problem since, i did how ever do all the overdue maintenance to make it a reliable vehicle.
rule of thumb, "if it has tits, tyre or 4wd you will have problems"

Pedro

[lilpigzuk]

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=discovery+thermostat&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=GJivU4k0O8IEPM:&imgrefurl=http://landroverforums.com/forum/discovery-ii-18/how-old-your-thermostat-glad-i-changed-mine-54065/&docid=NN7VWF4Ho6YdJM&imgurl=http://landroverforums.com/forum/members/zb-30-38487-albums-2004-discovery-s7-755-picture-old-thermostat-4258.jpg&w=596&h=464&ei=ZvDLUdzJJs3_lAWZuIDwDg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:4,s:0,i:88&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=198&tbnw=255&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=120&ty=77

Those are the piles of shit i speak of lol

that is a thermostat out of a series 2 discovery. Im pretty sure (not that he has confirmed and I dont expect him to come back into this abortion of a mis-informed thread) the OP wasnt going to drop $10K plus on a disco 2 (yes there are cheaper) for a hunting wagon and throwing the mutt in.
Please keep going, it is good to get rid of some myths regarding the ole shitty rovers

[BlakeNZ]

Trundle, i enjoyed your 2c worth!
However, i'm very pleased things have changed for the other remaining disco owners,and one guy is correct in that my experiences are not recent as my two friends/associates who owned them got rid of their vehicles about 4 -5 years ago.
One of the owners was a mechanic, and every time something went wrong, he was charged mega to run the diagnostics, and one of the processors that failed costs him plenty. It got up his nose so much, that he eventually imported the diagnostic equipment himself. to be fair, his (well maintained) former vehicle is still running around locally.
But seriously, is there anyone who would argue that half the disco issues wouldn't disappear if they had an engine transplant? The pre 2000 diesel issues are well documented. IMHO.

[DieselBoy]

And the issues are??