KZJ71 problems - good diagnostic mechanic in Wellington???

[Gyxx]

Hi...

After spending a few months deciding what sort of 4WD to buy I finally purchased my new pride and joy to be and -Boo Hoo, woe is me -my nice new Toy Motor barely made it up the road before it started stuffing out...

Just bought a very tidy, unmolested, low milage (relatively) and well maintained little KZJ71 off a retired mechanic in Sanson. All good, everything done - filters, belts etc runs well... Very honest bloke - has already offered to give me my money back if it's a major and not a minor problem.

Was going to post a "look at my new toy" photo on the forum as I've talked to a few people about what's a good vehicle, does this one/ that one look like a goodie etc...

Until I got to Foxton...

Long story short after coasting to a halt just off the end of that bloody long, narrow bridge across the floodway between Foxton and Levin -praying to any God that would listen " Not here, don't stop here - anywhere but here" it came home on the back of a tow truck.

It has an apparently intermittent fault where it just cuts out dead after driving for a while, starts again and runs fine for a bit and then cuts out with increasing frequency. No rough-running - runs perfectly when it does - until it stops. Seems to have stumped a couple of auto-electricians who can't find any faults after going over relays, fusible links etc except to give a best guess of "maybe an intermittent computer fault". Have searched forums and things like ECU's , spill valves whatever the Fxxx they are etc seem to be mentioned when people are talking about similar problems. Personally it's the first diesel I've ever owned and all my previous experience of diesel engines consisits of saying "It's broke boss - needs fixed"...

Can anyone recommend a good workshop/ mechanic in Wellington who knows enough about the KZJs to daignose the problem without just swapping out parts til it's fixed.

Any advice greatfully received..

Um where's the little icon for crying into my beer...

[sig]

auto or manual

[Gyxx]

Hey.

She's an auto.

[IcedJohnno]

Sounds like an ECU issue to me. Check out my thread on this issue. Any questions fire away. Spill valve is the round bit on the top of the injector pump at the back of it.
Anything Electronic in Nelson fix these ECUs all the time. Not too dear to sort.

You bought a great truck by the way. I've had mine nearly 10 years now. Still loving it!

Sorry I live in Shaketown, so know the good autosparkies here but not in Wellieshake.

[Ralfie]

Hi...

After spending a few months deciding what sort of 4WD to buy I finally purchased my new pride and joy to be and -Boo Hoo, woe is me -my nice new Toy Motor barely made it up the road before it started stuffing out...

Just bought a very tidy, unmolested, low milage (relatively) and well maintained little KZJ71 off a retired mechanic in Sanson. All good, everything done - filters, belts etc runs well... Very honest bloke - has already offered to give me my money back if it's a major and not a minor problem.

Was going to post a "look at my new toy" photo on the forum as I've talked to a few people about what's a good vehicle, does this one/ that one look like a goodie etc...

Until I got to Foxton...

Long story short after coasting to a halt just off the end of that bloody long, narrow bridge across the floodway between Foxton and Levin -praying to any God that would listen " Not here, don't stop here - anywhere but here" it came home on the back of a tow truck.

It has an apparently intermittent fault where it just cuts out dead after driving for a while, starts again and runs fine for a bit and then cuts out with increasing frequency. No rough-running - runs perfectly when it does - until it stops. Seems to have stumped a couple of auto-electricians who can't find any faults after going over relays, fusible links etc except to give a best guess of "maybe an intermittent computer fault". Have searched forums and things like ECU's , spill valves whatever the Fxxx they are etc seem to be mentioned when people are talking about similar problems. Personally it's the first diesel I've ever owned and all my previous experience of diesel engines consisits of saying "It's broke boss - needs fixed"...

Can anyone recommend a good workshop/ mechanic in Wellington who knows enough about the KZJs to daignose the problem without just swapping out parts til it's fixed.

Any advice greatfully received..

Um where's the little icon for crying into my beer...

Try G Guy Motors in Old Hutt Road Thorndon Phone - (04) 472 9565 or (04) 472 2020

[DieselBoy]

Yup, my votes with the ECU as well. My old mans prado did the same thing. Just driving along, and it stopped. Leave it for a few hours, it would go again. Sometimes it would start straight up, then stop 3mins later. Other times it would slowly loose power, engine check light would come on, and would slowly die. Leave it on the side of the road for a few hours, come back to it and it would go. We tried all sorts, and got nowhere with it.

A common issue with the ECU was pointed out right from the start, but we ignored the advice and looked else where. Result being we wasted $$$ on replacing stuff that was working fine. The ECU's are prone to failing with age.

Couple of hundred $$ Anything Electronic in the Nelson, and they will have it repaired, future proofed and shipped back to you in a week.

I reckon try that first, wish we had

[prado_boon]

I reckon ECU too, get another and try it out. It will save you a lot of $$ if it is. They blow the capasitors and do all sorts of funny things... don't ask why!

Hunt around? That would be the first thing I would try

[IcedJohnno]

I reckon ECU too, get another and try it out. It will save you a lot of $$ if it is. They blow the capasitors and do all sorts of funny things... don't ask why!

Hunt around? That would be the first thing I would try

ECUs for these are different between manual and auto. They are also different from the Surf or van with the same engine.

These days you will be lucky to find a good 2nd hand one. Anything Electronic repair about 3 of these each week.
Only option likely is to find another KZJ-71 or KZJ-78 on good going order with the same transmission, and swap ECU's and check how it runs. Sometimes no codes show up either!

I would do as DB says and just get it done.

[Gyxx]

Hi guys thanks for all the feedback.

I've taken the KZJ into Carl at 4WD specialists in the Hutt as he seems to have a good reputation as a guy who should be able to figure the problem out and won't take it as an opportunity to slowly empty my wallet. I had also heard from a few people G Guy are good but I didn't want to risk the wagon dying on the motorway into Wellington. It drove down to Carls no problems at all by the way.

I hate these hard-to-diagnose/ intermittent problems. I'm reasonably mechanical myself and can swap parts over as well as the next guy and can usually figure out where a problems coming from. In that good ol' Kiwi way actually paying someone to do something for me's almost always a last resort.

It seems the forum consensus is get the ECU fixed by that crowd in Nelson (which I think I'm going to have to do anyway even if only to eliminate it as the cause of the problem as the diagnostics don't usually seem to show intermittent faults).

The auto-sparky in Levin said he thought the relays that contol the fuel flow/ shutoff thingamajig were losing power for some reason even though they themselves looked good - possibly ECU, replaced a dodgy looking fusible link, wriggled the wires around, had a look at the earths. I've heard plenty of stories of people wasting money replacing electronic bits only to find a dodgy earth was the problem.

The wire going to the spill-valve thingy has a Narva type connector that someone's put on it not the original Toyota connector so I think the guy I bought it off's auto-sparky probably replaced that thinking maybe a bad connection there was the problem.

The guy I bought it off's been really good - rang me this morning and said he'd pay up to $400 towards the cost of fixing it but if it was going to be any more that he'd take the vehicle back and give me a full refund and fix it himself. I guess you can't really ask for much fairer than that can you?

Bloody gutted though I want to take this vehicle places where tow-trucks just don't go and crapping out would be a real major - Might be a while though before I feel confident enough to do that. Pulled out of the trip with the CCVC that I'd booked for this weekend and my boy was almost beside himself with keenness for.

This is her by the way - you might have seen her on TradeMe. Would be a bloody good one if it didn't crap out...

Before I bought her I spent a couple of night reading every thread I could find on her about KZJs...

Ah well - live and learn. I'll keep posting cos I know people will be interested to see what the problem turns out to be.

Thanks again all...

[DieselBoy]

Just pull your ECU, chuck it in a $5 courier bag, send it nelson, then plug it back in. Truck fixed

[micahb]

Just pull your ECU, chuck it in a $5 courier bag, send it nelson, then plug it back in. Truck fixed

2nd that, ive had the exact thing your describing happen to two of my wagons, both were ecu. Do the ecu and save your money for something to make it go better instead of paying a mechanic. Ecu is easy to get out yourself.

[Mattman]

Lots of Toyota's, Mitsi's and others suffer from capacitor faults. The caps heat up and start to leak and the acid inside them etches the boards and causes more issues.

The longer you leave it the worse it gets and they can eventually be non repairable.

Even if this isn't the cause of your problem it's worth getting the board updated now with new caps to prevent it from happening down the road.

Matt.

[Jerry]

Wayne at wilsons in petone is good with efi diesels, he knows his stuff check the ecu , alsp injector pump - stop valve, also power feed from ignition to ecu, also ecu connectors

i have a spare auto ecu as well if needed for testing

[bang-thud-thump]

On the plus side a couple of hundy for the ECU is probably cheaper than/close to a mechanical fault anyway.

That crowd in nelson has had a good name for as long as I can remember.
I cant remember when that started though

[madlux]

Iv had two kzj ecu's done now, I use r-t auto electronics in new Lynn Auckland. 098278809. 300 a computer. Does an awesome job and is ready the next day. One of mine did the same as what it sounds like you are saying, and it was ecu. Common problem.

[Gyxx]

Hi all.

4WD specialists have had a look see now and I'll find out how that turned out tomorrow.

I'm amazed by the number of people saying 'get the ECU done'. This must be a really common weak point on these - practically a service item. I'm starting to think even if it comes back tomorrow ok I'd be wise to have it done before it goes because if I don't it's only a matter of time.

At the worst I guess there's only so many electical and electro-mechanical parts in the fueling system it could be that could cause it to cut out like that.

Thanks very much for the offer of a loan of an ECU Jerry I'll keep that in mind if it turns out I need to swap one out to pin down the problem in mine.

I'll post an update once I find out more.

Cheers guys...

[Gyxx]

Hey all...

Got her back from Carl this morning and she seems to be running fine. He managed to pull a fault code from the computer regarding the butterfly, checked and rectified that and took her for the big road test over the Wainui hill on which she ran fine.

I've been running around for the last three hours; up and down the motorway at (around) the speed limit, crawling over rocks in low 4 and she's not missing a beat - temp and oil pressures are fine.

I will park it up for a week and get the ECU done as I'd rather do it now than wish I had later and the Nelson crowd put a 2 year guarantee on ECUs they fix.

Carl said there may yet turn out to be a problem with the spill valve (about $4-$500) or worst case scenario with the injector pump itself (up to $2K) but there's no way of knowing short of pulling it apart, checking and putting it back togeather at the cost of about a days labour and misc seals, washers etc. More than a brand spanking new spill vavle would cost.

The diesel guy also said at that age it's not a case of if the injector pump will need a rebuild but when. Ah well - better keep some money aside in the budget for that. On the plus side he did say once they're rebuilt they don't come back.

And I really - really do like this wee truck.

I won't take it out with the CCVC this week as I want to be completely confident it won't let me down before I head for the wop-wops.

Thanks heaps guys for all your advice and feedback. I'll keep posting if there's any further developments in the saga so that others might benefit from my experience.

Apart from that hopefully I might meet a few of you "out there doing it".

Thanks
Gyxx

[Gyxx]

Ahhh...FFS!!!

After driving around for about 3 hours today the KZJ decided to play silly buggers again. Same deal as before just suddenly engine no go; no funny noises, gauges all showing good - just don't wanna go.

Left it for five - it started ok - drove halfway home - crapped out, wait, start - drove the rest of the way home.

Parked up now and I'll pull that ECU out and send it away this week.

If it gives anyone any ideas - When it does crap out it will still turn over and run with the key in the start position (starter motor whirring furiously) but dies as soon as you turn the key back to the run position.

Ah well - I'll let people know once I have the ECU back.

[Mattman]

Definitely ECU. I am going on the CCVC Aka's trip on 17th August so hopefully you will have everything sorted and we can catch up.

Cheers
Matt.

[axel]

Comments deleted

[Jerry]

will be the ecu its above the gearbox and pretty easy to get out

[DieselBoy]

Ahhh...FFS!!!

After driving around for about 3 hours today the KZJ decided to play silly buggers again. Same deal as before just suddenly engine no go; no funny noises, gauges all showing good - just don't wanna go.

Left it for five - it started ok - drove halfway home - crapped out, wait, start - drove the rest of the way home.

Parked up now and I'll pull that ECU out and send it away this week.

If it gives anyone any ideas - When it does crap out it will still turn over and run with the key in the start position (starter motor whirring furiously) but dies as soon as you turn the key back to the run position.

Ah well - I'll let people know once I have the ECU back.

Definitely the ECU man.

Stick it in a courier bag and get it sorted out. Problem solved

[sig]

the guy who is looking at ( jared ) it is a whizz with diesel stuff ,we were out hunting on friday night and were chatting about it afterwards.Jared has been working just on diesel injection systems for 15 years .A very clever man .He will fix it .He doesn,t let anything beat him .i have complete faith in him.

[Gyxx]

Righty-ho found the little f****r...

Now to send it away to Anything Electronic and hopefully they'll say to me "Well that's a right f***ed one sir - that'll be the cause of your troubles, but no worries we'll fix her up good as new."

And just to betray myself as a total NOOB, can anyone tell me what the idiot light on the tranny next to the AT temp light, marked ATP indicates - I'm guessing it's a transmission fluid low pressure warning??

Hey SIG - yeah Jared seems like a pretty switched on young fella. Hopefully getting the ECU sorted will solve my problem. If not I'll be needing every bit of Whizz he's got to figure out what's going on...

[oldblue]

Auto transmission Park warning light, means parking function not engaged.

[slide]

To elaborate its when "park" won't work. ie if transfer case is in neutral truck will roll freely, even with trans lever in park position.

[Gyxx]

Why thank you gentlemen. You learn something new everyday.

[Gyxx]

Hey all.

Got the ECU back from Anything Electronic and sure enough it had spat it's capacitors all over the circuit board. AE have fixed up the damaged tracks and replaced the caps - $262.20 incl GST & freight.

I'm putting it back in tonight but I won't get a chance to give it a long enough run to see if the intermittent stalling fault is fixed until the weekend.

Hopefully I'll finally get to drive my new wagon for more than half an hour and without fear it'll leave me stranded somewhere.

Thanks again for all the people who've posted and helped me sort this.

Cross your fingers and wish me luck....

[SMOKEY]

Gyxx , please take on board what I am saying, I'm not attacking you or any body else on ORE but what has happened on this post and your previous one is getting "O" so familiar. , ORE has a lot of members with all sorts of experience and backgrounds that freely give their time and experience to ------ the best of there ability answer all questions put up by old and new members covering all sorts of topics. In your two threads to date you have asked about the type of vehicle and then how to fix a vehicle , , in these posts you have been given good advice ------ and probably listend and then gone and did it your way . This is not going to help the next person who asks and the members who have the knowledge say, not another one who probably won't listen and there for say nothing . All the best with your 4WDing and in a few years time I'm sure you will be able to answer questions put up by new and old alike.

MY BARK IS WORSE THAN MY BITE,

FITZY.

[Ralfie]

Gyxx , please take on board what I am saying, I'm not attacking you or any body else on ORE but what has happened on this post and your previous one is getting "O" so familiar. , ORE has a lot of members with all sorts of experience and backgrounds that freely give their time and experience to ------ the best of there ability answer all questions put up by old and new members covering all sorts of topics. In your two threads to date you have asked about the type of vehicle and then how to fix a vehicle , , in these posts you have been given good advice ------ and probably listend and then gone and did it your way . This is not going to help the next person who asks and the members who have the knowledge say, not another one who probably won't listen and there for say nothing . All the best with your 4WDing and in a few years time I'm sure you will be able to answer questions put up by new and old alike.

MY BARK IS WORSE THAN MY BITE,

FITZY.

Bit harsh there Fitzy.

Despite you saying you are not attacking ...... you actually are.

You have to remember the forum is full of Muppets and people who think they know everything and it is difficult for the newer people to know who to trust, who's advice to follow and who not.

Its also hard trying to diagnose a problem from what some people write, poor description of the fault or even poor communication skills in getting it down in writing so there will always be differences of opinion.

They have to ask the questions and then evaluate the replies for themselves.
Then they make their own decisions as to what to do.

Something about you can lead a horse to water but ........ comes to mind.