Come join the Grey Lynn Offroad Adventure Club

[discoalex]

Hey guys. Long time and no posts from me. Making heaps of progress on my Land Rover S3 109. And I've picked up a 1984 Range Rover Classic which I'm loving too.

It's a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but me and a couple of my 4x4 inclined Auckland City mates have started what we're calling the Grey Lynn Offroad Adventure Club. I live in Grey Lynn, so hopefully the irony's not lost on that name. haha



Obviously, open to anyone around Auckland. Just a kind of group to share impromptu outings to Muriwai and Auckland paper roads etc.

Check it out and join the Facebook group. http://www.greylynnoffroad.com

I see so many capable trucks on the city streets around here. Maybe I'll do a little flyer drop on their windscreens when I see them and get them aboard. All in the name of community and fun.

get rad. haha.
Alex

[snotgoblin]

Like.

[skid]

Does your club have public liability insurance in case of accidental damage to forests etc etc ?

[discoalex]

It's a Facebook group....a bunch of like minded mates....I didn't know Facebook groups needed insurance!?

If it bothers you that much I can call It a 'society'...or a 'crew'.

[skid]

It's a Facebook group....a bunch of like minded mates....I didn't know Facebook groups needed insurance!?

If it bothers you that much I can call It a 'society'...or a 'crew'.

Doesnt bother me at all dude

You have fun with your impromptu trips out into paper roads and muriwai etc

Dont burn the forest down though as the resulting bill in the millions would bankrupt you fairly quickly

Enjoy yourselves and have fun

[smurf182]

It's a Facebook group....a bunch of like minded mates....I didn't know Facebook groups needed insurance!?

If it bothers you that much I can call It a 'society'...or a 'crew'.

Doesnt bother me at all dude

You have fun with your impromptu trips out into paper roads and muriwai etc

Dont burn the forest down though as the resulting bill in the millions would bankrupt you fairly quickly

Enjoy yourselves and have fun

That's what you have insurance on your own car for. Also, your home contents policy should have personal liability cover included, I know mine does.

[discoalex]

It's a Facebook group....a bunch of like minded mates....I didn't know Facebook groups needed insurance!?

If it bothers you that much I can call It a 'society'...or a 'crew'.

Doesnt bother me at all dude

You have fun with your impromptu trips out into paper roads and muriwai etc

Dont burn the forest down though as the resulting bill in the millions would bankrupt you fairly quickly

Enjoy yourselves and have fun

So basically exactly the same risk as when me and mates go for a drive on muriwai...or wherever like we have done a hundred times before. Only now, we have a sweet gang patch.

[discoalex]

Anyone group of people can be called a 'club'. Its not just a word for official organizations. As far as I'm aware...but I'm not a lawyer. Even in legit incorporated clubs like the LROCA which I'm a member of.....individual members can sill be liable for damage caused to property etc.

I think the difference between being incorporated or whatever you call it is you can deal with money. Sponsor shit. Have a bank account in that name. And do stuff like that.

Just think of it as a book club. A knitting club. It's a bunch of like minded individuals. I'm pretty sure you don't need special insurance just because you have a name and a logo....but I'll stand corrected if someone is wiser than me!

[discoalex]

Probs the worst thing I've done is steal that land rover drawing from Google without permission haha

[Mudde1]

Anyone group of people can be called a 'club'. Its not just a word for official organizations. As far as I'm aware...but I'm not a lawyer. Even in legit incorporated clubs like the LROCA which I'm a member of.....individual members can sill be liable for damage caused to property etc.

I think the difference between being incorporated or whatever you call it is you can deal with money. Sponsor shit. Have a bank account in that name. And do stuff like that.

Just think of it as a book club. A knitting club. It's a bunch of like minded individuals. I'm pretty sure you don't need special insurance just because you have a name and a logo....but I'll stand corrected if someone is wiser than me!

Not sure if you were at the LROCA meeting that I addressed last year but there are several points that you need to be aware of. Should there be a fire in a forest when you are in the forest, you will most likely be held personally libel for the costs of fighting that fire, even if it is not proved that you started it. That could easily cost you $1,000,000. And if you think it want happen, it has already happened to a group of hunters from Wellington about five years ago. They went out for a hunt, and ended up as bankrupts. Should the same thing happen when you are on a LROCA trip, NZFWDA insurance will supply a lawyer and cover the costs involved.
Also if the trip causes other damage and a claim for is made against you, you will most likely be personally libel. Again LROCA and other NZFWDA clubs have this covered. It is very unlikely that you vehicle insurance or house hold insurance will cover this. Ask your insurance company if your insurance covers rural fires Act claims. I know that LROCA exec has had very good legal advice on these points and are now a very very strong supporter of NZFWDA insurance for this very reason. You are correct it is no different if it is a group of mates or a organized club, the rules and risks are the same and many people out there don't realize what they are getting themselves into. The difference between a club and an individual is that if properly organized, a club can protect themselves against some of these risks. It is much much harder for an individual. I am happy to visit clubs, members or not, and explain the details.
Tony Burgess

President, New Zealand Four Wheel Drive Association.(NZFWDA)

[Mudde1]

n

That's what you have insurance on your own car for. Also, your home contents policy should have personal liability cover included, I know mine does.

You might want to check that with your insurance company.Ask if it covers rural fires Act claims.

[discoalex]

Not sure if you were at the LROCA meeting that I addressed last year but there are several points that you need to be aware of. Should there be a fire in a forest when you are in the forest, you will most likely be held personally libel for the costs of fighting that fire, even if it is not proved that you started it. That could easily cost you $1,000,000. And if you think it want happen, it has already happened to a group of hunters from Wellington about five years ago. They went out for a hunt, and ended up as bankrupts. Should the same thing happen when you are on a LROCA trip, NZFWDA insurance will supply a lawyer and cover the costs involved.
Also if the trip causes other damage and a claim for is made against you, you will most likely be personally libel. Again LROCA and other NZFWDA clubs have this covered. It is very unlikely that you vehicle insurance or house hold insurance will cover this. Ask your insurance company if your insurance covers rural fires Act claims. I know that LROCA exec has had very good legal advice on these points and are now a very very strong supporter of NZFWDA insurance for this very reason. You are correct it is no different if it is a group of mates or a organized club, the rules and risks are the same and many people out there don't realize what they are getting themselves into. The difference between a club and an individual is that if properly organized, a club can protect themselves against some of these risks. It is much much harder for an individual. I am happy to visit clubs, members or not, and explain the details.
Tony Burgess

President, New Zealand Four Wheel Drive Association.(NZFWDA)

Thanks for chiming in Tony. But I'm a little confused about all the fuss. In all seriousness is is not OK for a group of mates to loosely call themselves a 'club'.

I mean, for example, me and two of my mates go and drive Thompsons Track.....just for fun, like a lot of us do regularly. It's just a few trucks legitimately using land that's designated for that use. Is it any different if me and those same two mates go out and drive Thompson's....but we are now calling ourselves a 'club'.

Obviously we're not a proper 4wd club with a membership list and fees and president etc. Of course, I'm still a paying member of the NZFWDA through the LROCA. It's kind of just a tounge-in-cheek play on words. My attempt at a little irony. I mean, Grey Lynn Offroad!?!? haha.

If it's upsetting to anyone, or not appropriate, I'll of course make up an equally silly name like 'Mt Eden Extreme Mud PLuggers' or something like that. But is it really an issue? Or are we just getting our knickers in a twist because it might appear that my 'club' is somehow giving a bad name to the established organized clubs.

A club is a group of like-minded individuals. If I can't organize a beach drive through my 'club' facebook page....I suppose I'll just contintue to text my mates and head out for a drive together that way.

I'm confused at to what the issue is here? Use of the word 'club'. Going for a drive with more than one person? Do we all need to be incorporated fee paying structures even when we go for a drive in the forest with our mates?

Cheers
Alex

[discoalex]

You might want to check that with your insurance company.Ask if it covers rural fires Act claims.

So these seem like issues relevant to us all...whether or not we drive in a group that has a name or not? yes?

[discoalex]

Should the same thing happen when you are on a LROCA trip, NZFWDA insurance will supply a lawyer and cover the costs involved.
Also if the trip causes other damage and a claim for is made against you, you will most likely be personally libel. Again LROCA and other NZFWDA clubs have this covered. It is very unlikely that you vehicle insurance or house hold insurance will cover this.

Does this imply that we should never drive offroad without the protection of a 'club' or governing body like the NZFWDA? All of us always go out on our own outside of organized club trips!?!?

[rotordogg]

Should the same thing happen when you are on a LROCA trip, NZFWDA insurance will supply a lawyer and cover the costs involved.
Also if the trip causes other damage and a claim for is made against you, you will most likely be personally libel. Again LROCA and other NZFWDA clubs have this covered. It is very unlikely that you vehicle insurance or house hold insurance will cover this.

Does this imply that we should never drive offroad without the protection of a 'club' or governing body like the NZFWDA? All of us always go out on our own outside of organized club trips!?!?

Unfortunatly Yes, it does imply that, if your a member of NZFWDA (Or combined?) on a sanctioned trip there insurance will cover you if sh!t goes wrong and a forest your in burns down, If your out by yourself and the same happens you are personally liable for the cost.

I think it Sux, I miss the days when I could go down to the river for a blat in the mud with mates and not worry about this stuff, but the times they are a changing!

I don't see an issue with a group of mates calling them selves a 'club', I hang with a group of guys who call ourselves "team lada"!, what people are trying to warn you about is liabilitys etc, different issue.

PS, Good on you for trying to organise more outings for 4wd's!
maybe run them under the landy club name and be covered with there insurance?? can you advertise there trips on Face book too?? might help you get more members...

[lax2wlg]

Awesome idea!
I'd join if I lived up there. Hell I may end up there one day. I like Auckland.

[klompy]

I cant see any one having a dig at you guys for calling yourselves whatever its more a reminder of what happens if some thing should go wrong.I think the repercussions would probaly apply to DOC managed land as well.

[DaveM]

As soon as "club" is mentioned, all the liability issues are thrown about, but if someone is heading up Lake Sumner and invites others, no mention of all this?

[klompy]

Not quite as mudde1 said the costs if there is a fire will go to an individual as well as a group and even if your a NZ4WDA member on private run out side of your club you may not have the cover.

[Mudde1]

Not quite(,) as mudde1 said, the costs if there is a fire will go to an individual as well as a group and even if your a NZ4WDA member on private run out side of your club you may not have the cover.

Correct, NZFWDA insurance provides no cover for private trips,
Tony

[PeterVahry]

It's just a few trucks legitimately using land that's designated for that use

Now that others have identified the insurance risks, which are real but you can buy policies to deal with those, I'll point out that Thompsons Track is simply a legal road and has no 4wd designation. Thompsons falls under two different district councils with different approaches to its maintenance. The only places with 4wd designation are the few on DoC managed land.

You mention Muriwai as a destination and in that case it's only a 'road' in the eyes of the Police, as it is neither a 'legal road' nor Queens Chain. Be aware that since it has no such protection, it could be closed to vehicles at any time under the new ownership regime of the Woodhill Forest and the implications of the Foreshore and Seabed legislation.

For that reason, in my view any groups of four wheelers are welcome to exist as they are easier to identify when they might be needed to argue for access.

[madlux]

Just change the name
From club to group so all these anti's can shut up. Good luck with your Facebook group

[klompy]

Just change the name
From club to group so all these anti's can shut up. Good luck with your Facebook group

You seem to be the only one anti most everything else is good advice which as always people can take or leave.I occasionly go out with a club or a group of friends but I am also aware of the risks involved.No one is trying to shut you down only offer advice.

[shortylux]

Just change the name
From club to group so all these anti's can shut up. Good luck with your Facebook group

Yeah, I don't think anyone is being anti. And with out meaning any offence, I think you are missing the point.

All people are saying is that weather your group has a name or not, if the shit hits the fan, you can end up with massive liability. As such, belonging to a real club has advantages when it comes to avoiding/covering this liability.

I have gone out wheeling many times on "non club runs", but it's cool to at least be aware of the risk.

[shortylux]

.

[on2it]

I believe belonging to an official club covers 'some' of the liability and not all. Keep your name, as long as it's not inc and with no paying members - it means nothing. You are liable no matter what you do, whether you change your name or join a club.

Your exposure is minimised with a club but it's still there.

Go have fun with your mates, respect the environment, others on the trail and the land owners and you'll be right.

[Mudde1]

I welcome your efforts to encourage others into the recreation.
There is no problem with you calling yourself club or group or whatever you like, as long as you don't use a word that has legal requirements. Words like Incorporated, limited, royal, HRH, can only be used in certain circumstances, otherwise you can call yourself whatever you like. What I am trying to point out is that there are risks with any recreation and with changing world we live in the chances of being prosecuted, or being held libel when thing go wrong is increasing by the day and there are already examples of people just trying to have a good day out ending out with legal costs that destroy them. There is a 99.9% chance that everything will be fine, but if you are unlucky enough to be in the 0.1% it can easily be a major life changing event that can affect the rest of your life. By properly forming a club, the right way, these risks can be much better managed. By forming a club or group or gang, the wrong way could make it worse. What many people don’t realise is that if a group of mates have a trip and end up with a liability for damage, each of the group is “equally and severally” libel. You could end up paying for the entire damage; even you had only minor involvement.
Personally, as I have learnt more and more on this subject I am less and less keen to take part in recreation outside of a club environment. It just isn’t worth the risk. What I am saying to you is, forming a club correctly takes very little extra effort, and can make it a much better, and less risky experience and gives you the opportunity to insure yourself against major problems at a much lower cost that buying the insurance personally.
As I said earlier, I am happy to meet with you and give advice if you wish.
Tony Burgess

President NZFWDA Ph 0274792636.

[madlux]

Not any anti thing fellow bros good luck with whatever

[stovanovich]

Sounds like a good time, I need a few people to head out with around Auckland so I've joined the Facebook group! My usual crowd is more central north island based