Lift Law Changes -Where are things at now?

Pico42 · Post by **Pico42** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:13 pm

Over the break I caught up on some NZ4WD magazines and noted the comments by Peter Vahry about the status of authority cards for 4WD lifts. Seems that proposal is all out the window.

Where are things at now? Are the NZTA still introducing further restrictions on lifts?

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:52 am

Pico42 wrote:Over the break I caught up on some NZ4WD magazines and noted the comments by Peter Vahry about the status of authority cards for 4WD lifts. Seems that proposal is all out the window.

Where are things at now? Are the NZTA still introducing further restrictions on lifts?

If you were reading NZ4WD magazines did you read the November and December 2013 issues with the articles by Tony Johnson, from LVVTA?
The first article covered reason why they had opted for the authority card in the first place, the reasons why it was dropped in the end and the second covered other options on the table and explained where they go to from there.

The issue is a top priority for 2014 and LVVTA is having a 2 day technical workshop on raised vehicles in a month or two so as to discuss the options and it doesn't sound very good from our perspective.

The options look to be either expensive for us (certification fees) or severely restrict what can be done in the future. Suddenly the authority card, which is no longer an option due to narrow minded people, looked to be the best and cheapest option all round.

mudlva · Post by **mudlva** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:44 am

Ralfie wrote:
Pico42 wrote:Over the break I caught up on some NZ4WD magazines and noted the comments by Peter Vahry about the status of authority cards for 4WD lifts. Seems that proposal is all out the window.

Where are things at now? Are the NZTA still introducing further restrictions on lifts?

If you were reading NZ4WD magazines did you read the November and December 2013 issues with the articles by Tony Johnson, from LVVTA?
The first article covered reason why they had opted for the authority card in the first place, the reasons why it was dropped in the end and the second covered other options on the table and explained where they go to from there.

The issue is a top priority for 2014 and LVVTA is having a 2 day technical workshop on raised vehicles in a month or two so as to discuss the options and it doesn't sound very good from our perspective.

The options look to be either expensive for us (certification fees) or severely restrict what can be done in the future. Suddenly the authority card, which is no longer an option due to narrow minded people, looked to be the best and cheapest option all round.

funny how things work out ah..
and it will probably affect those that jumped up and down the loudest, the worst.

I know from the zone meetings that there was well over three years putting together the card proposal, for it to get chucked out in a matter of weeks..

bugger

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:44 pm

Where things are now is if you raise your truck , you take it in to be certed , the certifier will test the vehicle & if he deems it to be safe on the road he will pass it & then your sweet , if its not safe he will fail it and you will then have to adjust it until he deems it safe.
This will of course not stop anyone using a lifted or modified vehicle on the road illegally.( but then no system will)

Seems like a very fair & simple system to me.

Mudde1 · Post by **Mudde1** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:20 pm

tallsam66 wrote:Where things are now is if you raise your truck , you take it in to be certed , the certifier will test the vehicle & if he deems it to be safe on the road he will pass it & then your sweet , if its not safe he will fail it and you will then have to adjust it until he deems it safe.
This will of course not stop anyone using a lifted or modified vehicle on the road illegally.( but then no system will)

Seems like a very fair & simple system to me.

But that will be changing soon.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Mudde1 wrote:
tallsam66 wrote:Where things are now is if you raise your truck , you take it in to be certed , the certifier will test the vehicle & if he deems it to be safe on the road he will pass it & then your sweet , if its not safe he will fail it and you will then have to adjust it until he deems it safe.
This will of course not stop anyone using a lifted or modified vehicle on the road illegally.( but then no system will)

Seems like a very fair & simple system to me.

But that will be changing soon.

Why change a system that's simple & works ???? defies logic

klompy · Post by **klompy** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:21 pm

$$$$$$$$$

Twodiffs · Post by **Twodiffs** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:36 pm

Ralfie wrote:
Pico42 wrote:Over the break I caught up on some NZ4WD magazines and noted the comments by Peter Vahry about the status of authority cards for 4WD lifts. Seems that proposal is all out the window.

Where are things at now? Are the NZTA still introducing further restrictions on lifts?

If you were reading NZ4WD magazines did you read the November and December 2013 issues with the articles by Tony Johnson, from LVVTA?
The first article covered reason why they had opted for the authority card in the first place, the reasons why it was dropped in the end and the second covered other options on the table and explained where they go to from there.

The issue is a top priority for 2014 and LVVTA is having a 2 day technical workshop on raised vehicles in a month or two so as to discuss the options and it doesn't sound very good from our perspective.

The options look to be either expensive for us (certification fees) or severely restrict what can be done in the future. Suddenly the authority card, which is no longer an option due to narrow minded people, looked to be the best and cheapest option all round.

Hmmm..Say your piece respectfully and without a "narrow minded attempt" to belittle people who had some common sense in the matter eh Ralfie! The thread starter wanted to know the status of the issue...not want people to jump on and have a childish crack at others mate.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:04 pm

can someone please post a link to the articles so we can read them

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:48 pm

Ralfie wrote:
Pico42 wrote:Over the break I caught up on some NZ4WD magazines and noted the comments by Peter Vahry about the status of authority cards for 4WD lifts. Seems that proposal is all out the window.

Where are things at now? Are the NZTA still introducing further restrictions on lifts?

If you were reading NZ4WD magazines did you read the November and December 2013 issues with the articles by Tony Johnson, from LVVTA?
The first article covered reason why they had opted for the authority card in the first place, the reasons why it was dropped in the end and the second covered other options on the table and explained where they go to from there.

The issue is a top priority for 2014 and LVVTA is having a 2 day technical workshop on raised vehicles in a month or two so as to discuss the options and it doesn't sound very good from our perspective.

The options look to be either expensive for us (certification fees) or severely restrict what can be done in the future. Suddenly the authority card, which is no longer an option due to narrow minded people, looked to be the best and cheapest option all round.

Who's invited to submit / attend the 2 day workshop? Will it be open to the real world or be behind locked doors with just "well meaning, hand wringing paper pushers" attending? If it is an open forum then we could get representation from all facets of the 4wd world (fed farmers, combined 4wd, NZ4wd assn, after-market suppliers, etc, etc) and who knows maybe a better system or maybe just tweaks to the current cert system. Id hate to think another level of beaurocracy is needed, but maybe for extreme set-ups it is.

To be honest the cert system works to control those of us who do things legally and wont work for those who break laws. New laws will not stop the current breed of law breakers. Can anyone show any statistics where the height of a vehicle contributed directly or was the reason for an accident or incident? I would guess driver error makes up the largest portion of those stat's and even in the most stable of vehicles those errors will still arise.

Heath.

Mudde1 · Post by **Mudde1** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:19 pm

tallsam66 wrote:can someone please post a link to the articles so we can read them

They are available in NZ4WD magazine and Combined have been given the articles with permission to distribute to their members. NZFWDA has permission to distribute the articles to their members, which we have done. We don't have permission to post to a public forum.
It can be purchased here http://nz4wd.co.nz/issues/nz4wd-november-2013

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:22 pm

Mudde1 wrote:
tallsam66 wrote:can someone please post a link to the articles so we can read them

Combined have been given the articles to distribute to their members.

Any way to see the info if we aren't current members anywhere (Between 4wds so no point in 4wd club at the moment, but still interested in having a say in my future vehicle's potential mods)?

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:40 pm

[quote="Twodiffs

Hmmm..Say your piece respectfully and without a "narrow minded attempt" to belittle people who had some common sense in the matter eh Ralfie! The thread starter wanted to know the status of the issue...not want people to jump on and have a childish crack at others mate.[/quote]

Just basically the truth. or exact words used by LVVTA " Met with disapproval from some Canterbury based off roading clubs ............
had a number of different reasons for working against the idea, and a common theme seemed to be disinterested in having membership with NZFWDA. Some members lobbied their concerns about LVV Authority card system to NZTA and this caused NZTA to withdraw their support ............."

Maybe you should read the entire 2 part article for yourself before jumping ............

Twodiffs · Post by **Twodiffs** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:52 pm

I did my man and if I remember correctly (happy to be corrected) it was in the 4wd mag late last year and an article (2nd article of 2) by Peter Vahry whom used those words "narrow minded".

Heath - Someone asked on a thread (when the authority card was a hot potato) if there were relevant stats to support the increase of accidents etc due to suspension lifts, iirc once again the answer was that no stats supported this. An ex senior member of Combined requested or researched this info. Someone also said it was down to a car that was used carelessly or stolen an an accident ocurred or something...something like that anyway.

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:00 pm

Twodiffs wrote:I did my man and if I remember correctly (happy to be corrected) it was in the 4wd mag and an article by Peter Vahry where those words were used.

I am only too happy to correct you ..........

Wrong article.
I am referring to and quoting from the articles by LVVTA Chief executive Tony Johnson. Published in November and December issues 2013.

So as I said go read it for yourself before you jump .............!!

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:09 pm

Heath wrote:
Who's invited to submit / attend the 2 day workshop? Will it be open to the real world or be behind locked doors with just "well meaning, hand wringing paper pushers" attending? If it is an open forum then we could get representation from all facets of the 4wd world (fed farmers, combined 4wd, NZ4wd assn, after-market suppliers, etc, etc) and who knows maybe a better system or maybe just tweaks to the current cert system. Id hate to think another level of beaurocracy is needed, but maybe for extreme set-ups it is.

To be honest the cert system works to control those of us who do things legally and wont work for those who break laws. New laws will not stop the current breed of law breakers. Can anyone show any statistics where the height of a vehicle contributed directly or was the reason for an accident or incident? I would guess driver error makes up the largest portion of those stat's and even in the most stable of vehicles those errors will still arise.

Heath.

The answers to your questions and queries are contained in the articles aforementioned.
It will be "..... invite to selected hobbyist and industry experts in the field of modified 4WD vehicles, who are considered to have particular expertise in the areas of steering and suspension geometry, and stability ......"

Maybe you and others should read them fully before leaping to the keyboard.

jonossiksilvia · Post by **jonossiksilvia** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:13 pm

Just a suggestion but perhaps someone could post a copy of the article/s on here for everyone to read :?:

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:35 pm

jonossiksilvia wrote:Just a suggestion but perhaps someone could post a copy of the article/s on here for everyone to read

Why ..........??
It would be in breach of copyright and possible action taken against whoever does without permission.

All because you are too tight to spend $8.00 on a copy for yourself.

jonossiksilvia · Post by **jonossiksilvia** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:38 pm

Considering it an old issue that wont be on any selves now...

:shock:

sorry i spoke

Twodiffs · Post by **Twodiffs** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:39 pm

..someone's off their cornflakes tonight.

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:53 pm

jonossiksilvia wrote:Considering it an old issue that wont be on any selves now...

sorry i spoke

If only you had read all that was written on here before tapping the keys in the first place, you would have found the link to where you can still purchase copies.

jonossiksilvia · Post by **jonossiksilvia** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:01 pm

Ralfie wrote:
jonossiksilvia wrote:Considering it an old issue that wont be on any selves now...

sorry i spoke

If only you had read all that was written on here before tapping the keys in the first place, you would have found the link to where you can still purchase copies.

For your information the trouble is when you push the "see next new post button" previous edited posts dont show up, so easy mistake - doesnt mean i haven't read all posts

End rant

smurf182 · Post by **smurf182** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:04 pm

Ralfie wrote:
jonossiksilvia wrote:Just a suggestion but perhaps someone could post a copy of the article/s on here for everyone to read

Why ..........??
It would be in breach of copyright and possible action taken against whoever does without permission.

All because you are too tight to spend $8.00 on a copy for yourself.

Why should I pay $8.00 to read information that should be available to the general public since it affects everyone not just the readership of this particular magazine?

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:10 pm

Ralfie wrote:
Heath wrote:
Who's invited to submit / attend the 2 day workshop? Will it be open to the real world or be behind locked doors with just "well meaning, hand wringing paper pushers" attending? If it is an open forum then we could get representation from all facets of the 4wd world (fed farmers, combined 4wd, NZ4wd assn, after-market suppliers, etc, etc) and who knows maybe a better system or maybe just tweaks to the current cert system. Id hate to think another level of beaurocracy is needed, but maybe for extreme set-ups it is.

To be honest the cert system works to control those of us who do things legally and wont work for those who break laws. New laws will not stop the current breed of law breakers. Can anyone show any statistics where the height of a vehicle contributed directly or was the reason for an accident or incident? I would guess driver error makes up the largest portion of those stat's and even in the most stable of vehicles those errors will still arise.

Heath.

The answers to your questions and queries are contained in the articles aforementioned.
It will be "..... invite to selected hobbyist and industry experts in the field of modified 4WD vehicles, who are considered to have particular expertise in the areas of steering and suspension geometry, and stability ......"

Maybe you and others should read them fully before leaping to the keyboard.

I'm not "leaping", rather asking how I find these articles, so I can be informed. I am assuming that your response is meant to be informative and not an insult (It could be read either way - that's the problem with black and white text on a page

- I have gotten in so much trouble with the missus over this :mrgreen:

) Thank you for your information on the "invitees", good to know it will be an informed group and not well meaning bureaucrats.

Is there a digital (online) copy of the information somewhere?

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:18 pm

Perhaps P V (or whoever is the editor/owner or whatever) will put a copy here for us as gesture of good will or give permission for a copy of the article to be posted for a short time (1 week perhaps) so we can be informed.

If not I guess we will have to hunt for back copies and chase each other's tails over this again.

There was some anger over this before because of the fractured nature of the "negotiations", perhaps we can learn from that, put down the "personal crusades and rivalries" to put forward a truly united front this time.

If not I guess we are all fucked.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:27 pm

smurf182 wrote:
Ralfie wrote:
jonossiksilvia wrote:Just a suggestion but perhaps someone could post a copy of the article/s on here for everyone to read

Why ..........??
It would be in breach of copyright and possible action taken against whoever does without permission.

All because you are too tight to spend $8.00 on a copy for yourself.

Why should I pay $8.00 to read information that should be available to the general public since it affects everyone not just the readership of this particular magazine?

NZ4WD Ass has never been big on giving out information on stuff that will effect the entire 4WD industry & also everyone who does any 4wding.
They don't look at the big picture just what they think is best for there own members. (I can hear many of you saying "That's what they are there for") but sometimes to do the best for your paid members you have to bring on board the entire community & get input from EVERYONE to come up with something that will work for EVERYONE...... Why hide such an important article in such a poorly read & in my opinion boring magazine that very few people read.

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:33 pm

Heath wrote:
Ralfie wrote:
Heath wrote:
Who's invited to submit / attend the 2 day workshop? Will it be open to the real world or be behind locked doors with just "well meaning, hand wringing paper pushers" attending? If it is an open forum then we could get representation from all facets of the 4wd world (fed farmers, combined 4wd, NZ4wd assn, after-market suppliers, etc, etc) and who knows maybe a better system or maybe just tweaks to the current cert system. Id hate to think another level of beaurocracy is needed, but maybe for extreme set-ups it is.

To be honest the cert system works to control those of us who do things legally and wont work for those who break laws. New laws will not stop the current breed of law breakers. Can anyone show any statistics where the height of a vehicle contributed directly or was the reason for an accident or incident? I would guess driver error makes up the largest portion of those stat's and even in the most stable of vehicles those errors will still arise.

Heath.

The answers to your questions and queries are contained in the articles aforementioned.
It will be "..... invite to selected hobbyist and industry experts in the field of modified 4WD vehicles, who are considered to have particular expertise in the areas of steering and suspension geometry, and stability ......"

Maybe you and others should read them fully before leaping to the keyboard.

I'm not "leaping", rather asking how I find these articles, so I can be informed. I am assuming that your response is meant to be informative and not an insult (It could be read either way - that's the problem with black and white text on a page - I have gotten in so much trouble with the missus over this ) Thank you for your information on the "invitees", good to know it will be an informed group and not well meaning bureaucrats.

Is there a digital (online) copy of the information somewhere?

Hopefully I am not being insulting. Not the intention. Just been direct and to the point.
The information was out there but people can't be bothered to go seek for themselves. Reference was made that the first article was in the November NZ4WD issue in another thread a couple of months ago.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... 13&t=37845

Now all of a sudden people want to know more.

As for an online version try the NZ4WD magazine website.
http://nz4wd.co.nz/
Can't see it there but it was only a quick glance. a more thorough search may find it.
For a small fee they might even copy and email you just the pages you require.
Never know what you can get until you ask.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:37 pm

Cheers.

I'll have a look see.

Xmas time is a great time for loosing track of issues - too much real life home shit going on - that's why politicians drop bombs just before they go on xmas holiday. Not a great excuse I know, but its mine. I have much bigger things to worry about than this issue, but still want to be informed.

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:41 pm

Heath wrote:Perhaps P V (or whoever is the editor/owner or whatever) will put a copy here for us as gesture of good will or give permission for a copy of the article to be posted for a short time (1 week perhaps) so we can be informed.

If not I guess we will have to hunt for back copies and chase each other's tails over this again.

There was some anger over this before because of the fractured nature of the "negotiations", perhaps we can learn from that, put down the "personal crusades and rivalries" to put forward a truly united front this time.

If not I guess we are all fucked.

Looking at the magazine list of people Peter Vahry is not involved with the magazine other than as a contributor and writes a column.
He won't have the authority to copy anything onto here either.

The editor is John Oxley.
Associate Editor Robert Barry
Events Manager Ashley Lucas
Owner/publisher is Cathy Parker

Don't think any of them venture onto here though.

coxsy · Post by **coxsy** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:52 pm

found the two page artic leads off into way to test stability , tip table , computer programme, static rollover test, load cell test,
all vague at best in testing stability.
we drive our truck learn its limits in driving , change to suit each vehicle,
i.e at my work 2.2 ton mazda truck, 2.5 forkhoist ,mitzi ute courier ute , my mazda ute, all drive differently, I change driving to suit each we all do it ,
anys this thing is only on stability, they say its a complex problem , maybe if they left things the way they are there would be a big saving in time and bother for a lot of people
in my view system is not broke so no need to fix it
oh bump steer problem in lifted trucks, my 2010 ford focus has bump steer

Lift Law Changes -Where are things at now?

Lift Law Changes -Where are things at now?

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