Toyota 2.8 diesel (3L model) reconditioned

[nzlux]

[url][/url]My hilux has 343,000kms and is using ½ a dipstick in oil every 100kms, blue smoke when engine braking downhill (I'm picking valve stem seals) and a lot of blowby, when the dipsitick is removed it looks like a train, the oild filler cap more than dances when placed there it comes off. (rings need replacing at the very least)

I am not mechanically minded, so will need to pay a shop to do all the work. (Based in Whangarei)

I have seen these on trademe http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 775405.htm

and

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =603062908

Auckland is closer is that a good price?

[2.8SURF]

Unless you are looking to spend big bucks and keep your truck forever ild just say get a good second hand engine instead for half the price, they normally live forever the 2.8s so not really worth spending the money on a new one unless you know you are going to be doing another 300+kms while you own it.

If you were going to spend that much money you might as well upgrade for the same price to a 1kz for way more power and much better economy.

I have over 300kms on my 1kz and it takes 5,000kms before it starts to turn the oil black and has very little blow by, brilliant motors the 1k series, when looked after they last forever

[nzlux]

Thanks for your reply

It is a keep forever truck.

Talking to a neighbour tonight he suggested it could be blow by from the valves, I will get a leak down test done so I know whether I can get away with reconditioning the head.

I have though about repower with a V6 holden or 1KZ, but am put off by the fact that I will be buying another high km engine and might end up needed to recondition it.

Also I like the fact that the 3L has no electronics, so would have to get my manual diesel pump modified to work with a 1KZ, will also need a cert the $$ add up.

As for power I have auto lockers front and rear so crawl over most stuff on Savero MT tyres.

The 3L goes well in most offroad situations, even beat a 1KZ powered lifted hilux on 32 inch simexs in the road registered class at club champs last outing.

The 3L suffers in the sand, so did my 2.8 turbo inter-cooled Pajero. Sand needs horsepower which will put more strain on the 25 year old drive train, with possibly extra repair costs.

I can accept I cannot climb every (or any) sand dune...

[Ant]

It seems pretty easy after watching this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVDrGsaDME

[2.8SURF]

Fair enough, have a look at the head and valve stem seals then, only a few hundred to get head seals done and hopefully stop oil leak, doubt it would be rings yet as the 2.8s never die, even after I rebuilt my 2.8 with new rings and bearings it had a fair amount of blow by so ild say the L series may just be a blowy engine.

Get a compression test done first to check the engine condition, a proper shop will be able to tell you if its leaking from the head or rings

If you do head only you should be able to sort it yourself, have a search of the write ups on how to assemble the engine and head assembly as its actually a fairly simple job most people just panic and pay someone else to do it.

Rule is take your time and tripple check everything especially timing belts ect.
Always ask on here if you are not sure we can guide you through it

[slidenyo]

go buy a haynes manual and a torque wrench and valve spring compressor,
engines are simple just use common sense follow the book an cable tie anything in place that can slip out of place .
timing chains to the sprockets etc

[nzlux]

Thanks for the replies, but due to a head injury and dodgy hand I need to take it to a mechanic.

[Victim]

Hi, just my 2 cents. Better off rebuilding your current engine, or buying an exchange reco unit. 3L's are starting to become a bit long in the tooth now, and chances are that a second hand engine will probably be no better than your current one.

They're relitavely cheap to get parts for these days, so while you have it apart it might be a good time to pull sump off while your at it and do rings and roll in a set of bearing shells.

[nzlux]

Hi, just my 2 cents. Better off rebuilding your current engine, or buying an exchange reco unit. 3L's are starting to become a bit long in the tooth now, and chances are that a second hand engine will probably be no better than your current one.

I agree, I'm keeping the 3L and getting it done up.
The valve stem seals will be done next week together with a compression and cylinder leak down test.
I will then know what else is needed.

[tweake]

good to see your doing it up.

btw the 2.8 do die. they are infamous for snapping the crank at the rear.
if you do a full rebuild get the crank checked (xray?).

power wise a turbo and injection pump setup will help a lot with that.

[nzlux]

Had a compression and leak down tests done (mechanic couldn't do valve stem seals with the head in place so left that until / if the head comes off)

The speedo has 350,000km on it, I assume the engine has done at least this many kms, I bought it with 320,000 on the clock.

The results are

Cylinder 1 - 480psi 88% of 545
Cylinder 2 - 545psi 100% of 545
Cylinder 3 - 420psi 77% of 545
Cylinder 4 - 440psi 81% of 545

(my Max Ellery's manual states specified compression is 455psi with a minimum of 284psi so they appear to be within specification)

Cylinder 1, 3 and 4 have pressure going into the sump (blowby, It does blow a bit though the rocker cover, ie enough that the oil cap will not stay there if unscrewed but is that normal for a 3L engine???) there is slight leak at intake and exhaust valves.

What to do????

Get the head off, crack tested and planed if needed, valve stem seals replaced and valves reseated and not worry about the compression rings?

Head done plus rings and bearings (plus get crank checked), ie full recondition. $$$$$

V6 Commodore engine, if so how will the cost compare to reconditioning the engine. (can't be bothered repowering with a 3l or 1kz as they will have high km's and might well develop similar issues to my current engine, at least a petrol will not cost as much to recondition)

Im not a mechanic so will be paying for all the labour to get the work done whichever option I choose.

[tweake]

they normally do have a fair bit of blowby.

one small thought, check the breather system is not blocked up. it has a baffle system in the rocker cover that can get gunged up.

[nzlux]

they normally do have a fair bit of blowby.

one small thought, check the breather system is not blocked up. it has a baffle system in the rocker cover that can get gunged up.

I removed the breather pipe from the rocker cover, she is puffing out there, so definitely not blocked.

The more I think about it the more Im considering getting the engine reconditioned.

[nzlux]

So Im going to get my engine reconditioned, now to decide where to get it done.

There is this guy on trademe

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 873506.htm

Drive in drive out quote $2,850 if my head is not cracked, I doesnt overheat or use water so probably all good, or $3,300 if my head has to be replaced

or

Local shop, spoke to him today, drive in drive out, he estimates worse case (cracked head etc) $5,000, he sounded old school on the phone, $60 an hour for labour, I liked the sound of the guy, I also like he is a local businessman, easy to go back to if there are any issues.


What are your thoughts / opinion $3,300 in Auckland (it will drive there easily, using about ½ a litre of oil and a bit of diesel) or $5,000 for a local engine reconditioning shop to do it?

[Mattman]

There is quite a bit of difference price wise between the two. I would be comparing what they are doing to make sure that you are comparing apples with apples.

Personally my experience is that 5k is more realistic for a motor rebuild and fit - at the end of the day you get what you pay for generally.

5K is a lot of money though so see if you can find anyone who has used him before. Just because he is local doesn't mean that it will be easy to resolve any issues....

Matt.

[nzlux]

Both are talking rings and bearings plus crank polish and then either refurbish the existing head, or if it is cracked a new head for $3,300 or $5,000.

Im also thinking I will get what I pay for so am tempted to go local.

I know another local shop (who estimated $6,000) have had a number or problems but nothing of this other guy.

[nzlux]

After a few more questions the Auckland prices have increased to either $3,150 if my head does not have a crack or $3,850 if I need a long block, drive in drive out.

Speaking with family members who use to work in the automotive industry the Whangarei garage that gave a worse case estimate of $5,000 has been in business from at least the early 80's and has a good name.

Having the job done locally is looking better and better.

[zukmeista]

Can't see the point in spending $5k on a hilux thats probably only worth $6-7k, why not just leave it and keep driving it? Oil's not that expensive, and you currrently have a great upper cylinder lubrication system!

[nzlux]

Can't see the point in spending $5k on a hilux thats probably only worth $6-7k, why not just leave it and keep driving it? Oil's not that expensive, and you currrently have a great upper cylinder lubrication system!

If you think it its current condition, huge amount of blow by and ½ a litre of oil every 100 kms that it is worth between $6 - $7k its yours, will even give you a discount, $5,500 and I will deliver to Whangarei for you

$5,000 is the estimated maximum price, including new head (if needed) etc, it should come in less than that and then once reconditioned it will be worth $6 - $7K to a buyer, but more to me.

[suzolla]

Are you sure it is burning the oil and not leaking it.

The compression's seem pretty good so surprised there is excessive blow by.

Have you had it checked out by someone independent to give you an assessment of why it is using so much oil.

Just a thought.
Cheers
Tim

[nzlux]

Im pretty sure the oil is burnt not leaked as:

1. I can see the oil burn in the morning, lots of blue smoke after start up, and then again when going down hill, even worse when off road going down a steep hill in low first. The exhaust exits in front of the passenger wheel so I can see it in the passenger door mirror; and

2. There is no oil on the bottom of the motor or on the garage floor where it is parked.

The blow by is excessive, if I remove the dipstick when the engine is running it looks like a steam train out the dipstick hole, remove the filler cap and there is a huge amount of air coming out, no way a loose filler cap can stay in place.

It does start easily so compressions seem fine, and all are above the factory minimums.
A garage did the compression tests, I think they did them after it had ben sitting there over a day (possibly the next morning) so the cylinders could have had the oil that burns first thing in the morning in them.

It could just be valve stem seals and / or the oil rings on the pistons that need replacing, (if I ignore the blow by issue) but once the engine has been taken that far apart why not get the whole thing reconditioned?

[mylux]

Ring your local Toyota dealer and get a price for a brand new long block.
It may be a bit more money for a new one but a reco is still only a reco.
Just my thoughts.

[nzlux]

A new motor would be nice, but then I really would be spending more on the Hilux than it would be worth

[zukmeista]

If you think it its current condition, huge amount of blow by and ½ a litre of oil every 100 kms that it is worth between $6 - $7k its yours, will even give you a discount, $5,500 and I will deliver to Whangarei for you

$5,000 is the estimated maximum price, including new head (if needed) etc, it should come in less than that and then once reconditioned it will be worth $6 - $7K to a buyer, but more to me.

Wouldn't be worth that to me but they are going for stupid prices on TM theses days... Given the symptoms it sounds like the valve seals are at fault, shouldn't cost more than $1k-$1.5k to get the head fully reco'd. Don't think you need to worry about the blowby, my Rugger does the same and it runs mint as.

[nzlux]

I have had the compression and leak down tests done, there is very little leaking past the valves, most goes past the rings.

[tweake]

one thing to watch with diesel reco's is they don't do the lazy trick of just using the thickest head gasket they can get.
measure the piston protrusion then select the correct head gasket.
if you can measure the protrusion then machine the pistons so they are even. bit more work but it makes them run nice.

[mylux]

Just got an email back from Toyota.

The cost of a new Short Block for your Hilux would be $3250.00 incl. gst

A new Cylinder Head (Bare) comes in at $865.00 incl gst

We can also supply a set of Gaskets for $185.15

and also a Head Gasket for $105.80

[nzlux]

Cheers for that, you guys have to remember Im no mechanic, so add to that the labour cost of removing the old engine, taking off the diesel pump, glow plugs, injectors, then refitting injectors etc, assembling and fitting the new engine, that would be 3 (days) x 8 (hours) x $75 (at a good rate) = $1,800 plus 15% GST = $2,070 plus parts $4,400 total $6,400, getting a bit steep for a $7,000 ute.

The price of a reconditioned engine (including new head and radiator, if needed, and it probably wont need either) is $5,000

[tweake]

your always going to spend more than what the utes worth.
put it this way if you get rid of it and buy another 7k ute, what sort of condition is it going to be in? probably close to what you have now.

[nzlux]

Fair comment that why Im getting the engine reconditioned rather than a new engine.

I don't mind spending up to $5k but any more than that and it is getting a bit too expensive.