4x4 Challenges 2014 Rules

[Madaz]

The 2014 rules update has been done, please check out the changes at.....

http://www.4x4challenges.org.nz/news/135

[shortylux]

So two years and various forum discussions and the only significant change is to allow something that was already happening?

I won't lie, I'm disappointed.

A while before Christmas there was talk of an email survey being sent to competitors re rule changes. I thought this was a good idea. Then nothing happens and then I hear that the rule meeting has taken place with no obvious public input. (sure I should have emailed the rules committee, but was led to believe there was email correspondence coming)

It seems that the club that seeks to be the governing body for winch challenges could be a little more open. The last public meeting that 4x4 challenges had, according to their website, was their AGM last June. (I tried to go but could not get the day off work). Previous to that was November 2011. I'm just not sure how this all operates.

If this sounds a little ungrateful, I'm sorry. In days gone by 4x4 challenges has done great things for the sport. I also have great respect for almost everybody I know that is involved with 4x4 challenges.

I guess rules don't matter a damn if there are no events though. Big thanks to every body who is working on events and land access (and I know that includes a lot of 4x4 challenges people)

[Ralfie]

You can have as many 'public' discussions as you like, as many forum discussions, all in the hope that you can influence the results for yourself. But at the end of the day its those who belong to the club that make the decisions.

As I understand it 4x4 Challenges is an incorporated Club, therefore its the official and paid up membership of that 'club' that get to make any rule changes not the general public.

It's the way of our democratic society so if you don't belong and are therefore are not eligible to vote you can't have input and vote.

[shortylux]

I am a member of 4x4 challenges. I joined in about September or October as I wanted to be sure that I would have a chance to vote or at least be heard.

So two years and various forum discussions and the only significant change is to allow something that was already happening?

I shouldn't say that, modified has changed massively.

[mudlva]

Yahoo side brakes and handcuts

My new buggy might actually comply

[Big]

Interesting topic and had a read of the rules.. Soo leaves me a decision really.. as per rules my understanding would be I'd fall into the Outlaw class as I was hoping to be in the Open class.. but alas I cannot as per rule 19.1.. my chassis is not the original to the body.. if Im reading this correctly.. as if this is the case.. do I get rego and cert etc.. Just for road going or keep it a trailer queen ..?

[shortylux]

I'd fall into the Outlaw class as I was hoping to be in the Open class.. but alas I cannot as per rule 19.1.. my chassis is not the original to the body.. if Im reading this correctly

Na Big. You are all good. Both your body and chassis are from the same OEM (Toyota) so you are good as for Challenge (open) class. If you had used a GQ chassis though, instead of your 80 series chassis, you would then go to Modified (Outlaw) class.

[Batfastard]

T

[Madaz]

Does that mean that trucks that are not in the modified class will be scrutrneered and if they have wheel brakes ,it will be identifyed and they will be rendered unusable or the truck moved to the modified class .because there are a few very dishonest people out there.

All trucks are scrutineered before a comp?

[Batfastard]

I

[shortylux]

I guess the idea would be that they are locked out. Like with a padlock. I have seen a road going truck that had the wheel brake levers/handles removed and a steel box folds and locks over the master cylinders whilst on the road. This was to satisfy the cert man I expect. Lke you say, they need to be unuseable.

In any case. The rule changes don't effect this. This is a case of people doing something that the rules already didn't allow.

[Team Tonka]

Didn't realise the north & south had such different classes and rules. We have NZ1 were north meets South - so how does that work? Seems to be a good rapport between islands so is there a reason that someone has not tried to consolidate the rules before now?

Oh and rule 8.2 (no oil coolers), WTF, is it funny to watch someone fry their transmission? Can't see any other reason for the rule really.

[suzolla]

8.2 (no oil coolers),

The way I read it, is this only refers to the engine not the transmission.

[taz01]

8.2 (no oil coolers),

The way I read it, is this only refers to the engine not the transmission.

8.2 standard class no coolers yep

14.4 20.4 26.6 all other classes you can ..........

[Madaz]

Does that mean that trucks that are not in the modified class will be scrutrneered and if they have wheel brakes ,it will be identifyed and they will be rendered unusable or the truck moved to the modified class .because there are a few very dishonest people out there.

All trucks are scrutineered before a comp?

In no they are scrutineered before comp but ive watched and competed in comps last year and watched trucks with open diffs drive through hazzards that trucks with lockers and the same rubber simmlar hp and set ups struggel with or cant drive through . I watched the same trucks turn corners like they are on rails.and looked in side these trucks and they have wheel. Brakes .and ive watch the same drivers recive prizes where the class the race in wheel brakes are not allowed
There is plenty of footage on utube of these truck and in some cases u can see the driver useing the wheel brakes .

Ok, if this happened, did anyone complain or protest to the event organiser?

[QUADRACER]

What videos ?
Everyone pushes the limits, you only need to get caught and the shit sticks for awhile.

[mudlva]

In no they are scrutineered before comp but ive watched and competed in comps last year and watched trucks with open diffs drive through hazzards that trucks with lockers and the same rubber simmlar hp and set ups struggel with or cant drive through . I watched the same trucks turn corners like they are on rails.and looked in side these trucks and they have wheel. Brakes .and ive watch the same drivers recive prizes where the class the race in wheel brakes are not allowed
There is plenty of footage on utube of these truck and in some cases u can see the driver useing the wheel brakes .

that's a big accusation there fella

give your self some credit with a name and same or at least a link to the utube vids and let others judge for themselves, because what you are saying is the scrutineers are turning a blind eye or some thing worse, and that imho sucks, as all the officials that i know are not only volunteers but top blokes as well,

i personally know of A class drivers in the national trials series that would drive rings around club trucks with all the bells and whilst's..

so personally produce the evidence or shut the hell up and retract what you have said, as you are saying their is corruption in the sport, when all the chaps and chapesses that i know in the challenge will push the rules BUT DO NOT CHEAT!!

[Big]

Does that mean that trucks that are not in the modified class will be scrutrneered and if they have wheel brakes ,it will be identifyed and they will be rendered unusable or the truck moved to the modified class .because there are a few very dishonest people out there.

All trucks are scrutineered before a comp?

They ARE supposed to be..But you all know that if there is not enough time to do so then some do get missed..or a very casual glance over them( usually the guys that have been doing it a while and generally are setup correctly)I think this just happens due to not enough people to do the job at hand but also the implications of the consequences of any problems to who did it to begin with.. Society is getting too PC and just makes things hard sometimes..

Does that mean that trucks that are not in the modified class will be scrutrneered and if they have wheel brakes ,it will be identifyed and they will be rendered unusable or the truck moved to the modified class .because there are a few very dishonest people out there.

All trucks are scrutineered before a comp?

In no they are scrutineered before comp but ive watched and competed in comps last year and watched trucks with open diffs drive through hazzards that trucks with lockers and the same rubber simmlar hp and set ups struggel with or cant drive through . I watched the same trucks turn corners like they are on rails.and looked in side these trucks and they have wheel. Brakes .and ive watch the same drivers recive prizes where the class the race in wheel brakes are not allowed
There is plenty of footage on utube of these truck and in some cases u can see the driver useing the wheel brakes .

Could be to well set up suspension in trucks.. under sprung and over sprung weights can have a major impact on how shit works when getting power to the wheels OR what you are implying is they have shit hidden from view .. and are then not scrutinised..! If that's the case then they should be not be able to compete or disqualified from the comp even post comp.

I hope that it gets sorted quickly and without too many changes( if any) as amended now. I know the changes that are in the publication now were talked about at the agm year 2012 and I thought they were going to be adopted by both NI and SI competitions to bring everyone together and have the same rules to eliminate any future problems like essentially that have been brought up..? How do we get log books etc so we all have them so people cannot fiddle things between comps..?IS there going to be a policing body who issues them and polices it.. Disqualifies competitors that flaunt the rules? penalises etc..? Because I can see that intentions are well implied But in reality it might not happen so and is just a waste of peoples time and energy and then bickering starts etc like has been stated.
I for one would like to definitively know the rules now so when time does come to compete.. I am well prepared and so have no problems otherwise it'll be as before and things just do not change for the better and everyone just does what they have been doing.
either way I would like to know things are right .. I don't want to bring any more bickering .. Peace

[Batfastard]

P

[Madaz]

Yes, it does come down to honesty, but it all fairness to those doing the scruitineering if someone wanted to cheat by using wheel brakes, theres not alot they can do if they are hooked back up after the inspection.......

However, if other competitors or marshals had brought up their concerns at the time of the competion, im sure things may have been handled differently rather than 6 months later.

You have the protest procedure at a sanctioned comp, and you would have been more than entilted to use it.

[mudplug]

I was the scrutineer at the Manukau Comp and always look for fiddle brakes and often ask competitors if they are fitted and disabled.
I am sorry you felt that I performed poorly but with the exception of two trucks all trucks where checked to the 4x4 challenges vehicle audit check sheet. One competitor did not present for checking until the night stages started and was still putting his truck together so I made the decision to let him compete , in retrospect this was a bad call. If you have any suggestions as to improving the process we would like to hear them via the 4x4 Challenges web site.
George

[mudlva]

I was the scrutineer at the Manukau Comp and always look for fiddle brakes and often ask competitors if they are fitted and disabled.
I am sorry you felt that I performed poorly but with the exception of two trucks all trucks where checked to the 4x4 challenges vehicle audit check sheet. One competitor did not present for checking until the night stages started and was still putting his truck together so I made the decision to let him compete , in retrospect this was a bad call. If you have any suggestions as to improving the process we would like to hear them via the 4x4 Challenges web site.
George

or may be he could become a scrutineer himself as he is aware of how people are cheating the system!!

as with the national trials all the competitors and craw are watching all the other vehicles in their own class compete as well, they they are the best scrutineers around as if they are seeing somebody "cheating" as described i'm sure they would not of waited 6 months to lay a complaint.

As i said to Batfastard produce the vehicle number or the posted video's. as yet all he has said is that he had side brakes installed in his vehicle against the rules (manukau class) and is now accusing other as well.

show us the video Batfastard because you are accusing people and pointing the finger with a lot of hot air and not a lot of substance

Rohan

[Batfastard]

P

[Batfastard]

P

[Madaz]

The rules are black and white.

Put up the link to the clips so that we can all see what you talking about?

[bernie]

Naming and shaming is not going to do anyone any good at this late stage, especially if this accusation turns out to be unfounded, before you know it his name is tainted forever and I'm not so sure this is the place to do it. That is a big call.

George; as far as I'm concerned you have nothing to apologise for. You get a Hugh thumbs up from me and I'm sure everyone else here for what you do for this sport.
I have to add, and I'm not saying anyone was/is cheating, but if someone is hell bent on it, then there isn't a scrutineer on the planet that would pick it up, let alone one north of Hamilton.

Bernie

[Big]

Might be a good idea for people to focus on whats AHEAD instead of whats happened.. frankly this is heading to getting a bid over and past tense.. group hug.. and lets see how this year goes.. otherwise if this happens too many times.. the scene is fk'd because of moaners.. and god I hate moaners.. focus people.. Grow some and see you at first meet..