Silverstream firebreaks

[Sausager]

Hi all

I grew up in Silverstream, Upper Hutt and spent a lot of time walking/biking the firebreaks above Silverstream. I don't know if you can still get in there with a 4WD or not. Has anyone here ever driven up there? And if so, I would be keen to see photos or videos of 4WDing in there if anyone has any?

[Gyxx]

Officially the firebreaks are off-limits to motor vehicles. I think one of the clubs has been trying to get permission to access them for club runs.
Having said that I don't think I've ever been up there without seeing a few MX bikes. Every so often the bikes upset walkers or mountain bikers and the council will pounce on them.
Maybe someone else knows more or better?

[skid]

http://m.arac.org.nz/index.php/home/ara ... ern-hills/

[Gyxx]

Thanks Skid that link answers this thread perfectly. I should have thought to have a look at the ARAC website given the work they've done to maintain access everywhere else.

[Sausager]

So these tracks will be opened again, all going well? That's fantastic news! Where will access points be?

I often see MX bikers up there too, and the odd 4WD. If you know how, you can still drive onto these tracks

And does anyone have any photos or videos of trucks up there from times gone past?

[lax2wlg]

Thanks for posting that website, its interesting to read about the work ARAC is doing behind the scenes, and always good to be reminded to tread lightly, and that things can go wrong quickly

Its also quite worrying because it sounds like access to these areas is under threat. These quotes from the site:

South Coast/Red Rocks:
No matter what the temptation, follow the Tread Lightly! principles. DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE TRACK. Do not play on the sand dunes, and please, please make sure you take all your rubbish home with you.

Be polite to other users, especially pedestrians. Slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary. A warm smile and a friendly wave will do more for our credibility than anything else we can do.

Waiotauru/Odlin's:

This group have recently been involved in a series of working bees and recovery projects along Odlin's Road. The last one being a Nissan Patrol that managed to roll several times at the far end of the track.

It is unfortunately this type of incident that will lead to the permanent closure of this wonderful back-country block.

Put these together and you have very strong opposition to our access in there. Give any good excuse and the track will be closed for good - so it's in your best interests to ensure that not only do you take care, but make sure that others take care as well.

If we keep a low profile, we may just (repeat just) retain our access here, but it is marginal.

[Gyxx]

Thanks for posting that website, its interesting to read about the work ARAC is doing behind the scenes, and always good to be reminded to tread lightly, and that things can go wrong quickly.

Its also quite worrying because it sounds like access to these areas is under threat.

I'll second that. There's a lot of great work been done by organisations like ARAC and clubs like the CCVC to maintain access to these places and to improve the profile of off-roaders to the public at large.

I'm keen to keep what access we do have and it's always incredibly disappointing to hear about people doing dumb s**t that gives off-roaders a bad name. In the past few months I've read media reports about vandalism in a local hut accessible by 4WD, idiots pissing off the greenies by driving over regenerating dunes and bird nesting areas or just plain hooning near walkers or mountain bikers and making them fear for their safety. Every time I read this I cringe and think that's just the sort of stuff that's going to see us lose access. I'd really hate to think that one day I may not be able to get into these places because of the ignorant behavior of a few thoughtless halfwits.

I love to go deer hunting as well and I'm glad I live in a country where all I need is a firearms licence and a hunting permit freely available from DOC and I can head to the hills and indulge in what in the old country was considered "The Sport of Kings". Ask anyone from the UK what's involved over there if you want to go deer hunting (assuming one is not a member of the landed gentry). Every time there's a hunting "accident" or some poor farmer ends up wondering if the spot light that's just lit him up is going to be followed by a bullet there's talk in the media about tighter controls around hunting. There's even been some talk about balloting the entire DOC estate to control the number of hunters in an area at any given time.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is we're bloody lucky to have the freedom we do in the back country in NZ and we shouldn't take it for granted. I'd like my son to be able to go off-roading and hunting too one day.

Right... Rant over

[lax2wlg]

Right... Rant over

It was a good rant and I like that you mentioned firearms.

I think a lot of it boils down to peoples different ideas of 'what 4x4ing' actually is. This is why old Land Rover and Jeep are such great vehicles because they embrace a whole culture of fronteirsman outdoor explorer, and the emphasis is on driving technique and understanding the equipment, the aim is zero wheelspin, and traversing challenging terrain while minimizing impact on equipment and environment.

The internet exposes us to things like the hyper competitive sportslike Australian 4x4 scene, the massive variety and (excess) of the American 4x4 scene and the obsession with wanting to categorize and supersize everything (mudding, rock bouncing, yada yada), then you consider the fact that a lot of people have crossed over from the performance road car scene which is all about power application, the availability of cheap abuse-tolerant 4wd vehicles in this country (you can beat the living shit out of a standard old Pajero in a mud bog all week long and it will barely bat an eyelid), and the massive amount of web-wheeling misinformation out there all contribute to this massive pool of different ideas of 'what offroading actually is.' Of course none of these ideas are wrong and people do what they do, but they all contribute to public perception.

IMO proper rock-crawling (ie spools, 35s absolute minimum, solid front of course) is the final frontier of modern off-road recreation in that the whole objective is mechanical ballet by using suspension design, weight/vehicle dynamics and compounded gearing to go as slow as possible over seemingly impassible obstacles. So you actually get penalized for wheelspin.

Right...Rant over

[Sausager]

So, I went for a quick (ie short) walk up there on Sunday. The pieces of track that I saw are gnarlier than I remember them being. This track would be a nice mission in the wet. A bit breezy in the dry I think, but the wet would be a different story.

So I take it no-one has stories/photos of 4WDing up there. No-one can remember the double dipper?!

Very very exciting to hear that ARAC are working hard on regaining access to these areas. Well done guys.

Why was motor access lost in the first place? My Dad used to drive his Datsun 1600 from Whitemans valley to his mate's place in Wainui back in the day

[Gyxx]

The one word answer is f**kwits. The longer version is: Safety issues; walkers & riders being buzzed by idiot drivers and people ending up down banks. Criminal activity; arson, stolen cars being dumped, illegal agriculture and people protecting their 'crops' intimitading legitimate users.
The easy answer for council was simply to block access (which has reduced the problem but not eliminatd it).
If we do get access back it will be limited, they're not going to just throw the gates open because if they do they'll be potentially liable for things they'd have no control over.
Sad but true.
I can't find any media relating to 4wd'ing on the firebreaks sorry. Maybe some of the older hands may know.

[Sausager]

I guessed that would be the case. There always used to be a lot of burnt out/dumped cars up there. Are the tracks Council property/responsibility? I thought they were mostly private land.

I can imagine that if Council were to "open the gates" even on a limited basis, the land owners would be pretty opposed.

[Gyxx]

I think they're mostly council owned. I've got some maps from the last "Making Tracks" review a few years ago but I'm not at home to check them.
Have a look at WAMS website, that shows all the land that's accessible.

[Sausager]

Cool as. Any chance I could get a copy of those maps? Are they digital?

[Sausager]

I went for a walk up there last night. I walked up Duncraig Grove and walked down to the end of Kiln Street, and there is no gate at the Kiln Street end - so anyone could drive up there. It seems very deliberate too, as the landowners (at least I presume its the landowners) have gone out of their way to make a new track through the blackberry to the bottom of the track. Maybe the landowner is doing the best to keep the track open?

[Sausager]

I went for a bike ride up here on Saturday. I thought I'd take some photos and leave them here for anyone's future reference.

Everything looks so much tamer in photos!

[Mattman]

Any Wellington guys keen for a little run?

[lax2wlg]

Yessir

[zed]

As a bean...

[MikeL200]

http://www.walkingaccess.govt.nz/wams-help/faq/

[skid]

Please ensure you have followed all avenues to ascertain as to the access of the area you wish to drive in.

It wouldnt be very nice if a bunch of local guys ventured out where they shouldnt be and therefore gave the entire 4wd community a bad name.

Please take the time to remember that if you a member of a club and get caught somewhere you shouldnt be, then your club can get censured for your actions also.

Cheers for taking the time to read this

[Mattman]

I really struggled to use that link. Has anyone else had a look and checked on the silver stream firebreaks?

Cheers
Matt

[lax2wlg]

Seems like we need to get in touch with the owner of the land Maybe just go an introduce ourselves and ask if we can tread lightly?

[Sausager]

Seems like we need to get in touch with the owner of the land Maybe just go an introduce ourselves and ask if we can tread lightly?

I think that my dad knows someone in the know. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but I can see if I can track him down and ask him. A connection is always a bit of a "deal warmer"!

Will keep you posted

[Mattman]

Nice one!

[lax2wlg]

[hamishh]

keen as

[lax2wlg]

Any update on this?

[Sausager]

Sadly, yes. I emailed the member of the local council who is responsible for access to Council owned land. He asked a whole lot of questions which I answered truthfully while stressing the treading lightly, responsible, etc. He then came back and said that because the future of the land is up in the air (they're trying to subdivide it and sell it off, met with huge opposition from locals for various reasons), they can't let anyone through there. It didn't make sense to me so I asked to set up a meeting so that I could talk to him in person, and he said no, and that his decision (though I'm not sure if it was his or not) wouldn't change. Stink.

Is there anything else we can try?

[DMcCready]

Sadly there is nothing else we can do. No permission from the land owner is the death blow in my opinion...


Hopefully it makes us appreciate and work harder to keep the areas we do have access to open.

I have seen the dark side of wheeling while I was in Canada and it isnt pretty. Anything off the gravel roads is a huge gray area. I have personally had to sweet talk a conservation officer into not giving us huge fines and impounding our trucks... He was pissed!! 9mm drawn and all. Scary stuff


As Skid has said in previous posts in this thread. Guys use your head...we cant use the bad rep and who knows mabey in the future areas like this may open again.

[lax2wlg]

Sadly, yes. I emailed the member of the local council who is responsible for access to Council owned land. He asked a whole lot of questions which I answered truthfully while stressing the treading lightly, responsible, etc. He then came back and said that because the future of the land is up in the air (they're trying to subdivide it and sell it off, met with huge opposition from locals for various reasons), they can't let anyone through there. It didn't make sense to me so I asked to set up a meeting so that I could talk to him in person, and he said no, and that his decision (though I'm not sure if it was his or not) wouldn't change. Stink.

Is there anything else we can try?

Good effort Sausagedog and thanks for making the effort. Sounds like you had a pretty positive communicae with the land owner.

In terms of due diligence, theres nothing else that could have been done, short of offering the guy a BJ in exchange for some driving time.

I have personally had to sweet talk a conservation officer into not giving us huge fines and impounding our trucks... He was pissed!! 9mm drawn and all. Scary stuff

A Canadian with a gun?! Bet he was still polite though Jokes, jokes. Totally hear what your saying.